2nd Commandment
- Just This Guy
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2nd Commandment
DW had an interesting thought and I was interested to get your take on it.
The 2nd commandment says to not take the lards name in vain. For most people, that means something like not using the name of god out of context or for purposes of profanity or an an explative. Profanity has also been expanded to cover any word or phrase that is not socially allowable.
Is this really what it means? Are there any examples of it being used in that context in that is the scriptures? Are there any examples of people specifically violating the 2nd commandment in the scriptures at all?
Maybe this goes back to the discussion of god being the god of nitpicking, but when casual language usage is included next to the prohibition on murder, that seams out of place.
Is the idea of "taking the lord name in vain" a bit more literal, with taking the lord name and putting it on something god did not actually say? 'Taking' the name of god for false quotes. Whether it be false prophecy, or using the name of god for personal gain and enrichment (false tithes), it's using the name of god not build up the kingdom.
DW and I joke that if a business uses bible verses or Christian symbols in their logos or advertising, it's usually a warning that they are shady at best. Not always, but the stereotype does tend to exist for a reason. Is that more what the 2nd commandment is referring to? To not use the name of god to defraud or mislead people?
The 2nd commandment says to not take the lards name in vain. For most people, that means something like not using the name of god out of context or for purposes of profanity or an an explative. Profanity has also been expanded to cover any word or phrase that is not socially allowable.
Is this really what it means? Are there any examples of it being used in that context in that is the scriptures? Are there any examples of people specifically violating the 2nd commandment in the scriptures at all?
Maybe this goes back to the discussion of god being the god of nitpicking, but when casual language usage is included next to the prohibition on murder, that seams out of place.
Is the idea of "taking the lord name in vain" a bit more literal, with taking the lord name and putting it on something god did not actually say? 'Taking' the name of god for false quotes. Whether it be false prophecy, or using the name of god for personal gain and enrichment (false tithes), it's using the name of god not build up the kingdom.
DW and I joke that if a business uses bible verses or Christian symbols in their logos or advertising, it's usually a warning that they are shady at best. Not always, but the stereotype does tend to exist for a reason. Is that more what the 2nd commandment is referring to? To not use the name of god to defraud or mislead people?
Last edited by Just This Guy on Wed Dec 05, 2018 10:08 am, edited 1 time in total.
"The story so far: In the beginning the Universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move." -- Douglas Adams
- RubinHighlander
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Re: 2nd Commandment
That is one of the most obscure commandments and I'd also be interested to see a more exact definition in it's historical time frame. What was going on amongst the Jews at that time that warranted a strong response?Oh God, hear the words of my mouth!
For me, in the modern age, I was sufficiently indoctrinated as a TBM and it was offensive to hear anyone use "Oh My God" or "God Damnit" in their casual day to day talk. Even the causal use of Jesus made my TBM hair standup on the back of my neck. But now I enjoy and use those phrases just as much as most of the other folks on the planet. It's an irony, since I don't believe in an old man god persona anymore.
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YzmYP3PbfXE
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YzmYP3PbfXE
Re: 2nd Commandment
Many who read this skip on because they don't swear at all, let alone profane in the unthinkable "vain" areas. Hmmm
What does it mean? Are all the people who say, "Oh my god" over and over- are they going to burn in hell?
Or, how about the "vain" repetition group? "Hey Brigham, we don't want to use the name for the priesthood The Holy Order of God or something like that cause that is saying God too much and God does not like that. Let's use a word that no one has heard of, let alone spell, like Mel-kez-dick."
This is one more thing that God was so worried about that he gave old Moses a couple of stones with things written on them so old Moses would not forget them. Then Moses threw down these stones- he didn't care if God wrote them or not- because the people were naughty when he, Moses, was up chatting it up with God. Good old Moses. Wonder what he thought when he went back to God and asked for some newly written stones.
Course God got tired of writing on stones, or anything since then. Moses ruined that for all of us. Jerk. Threw down the stones. So God decided that he is not going to write anything down again for man. "You are on your own. I will tell you and you will write it on paper or gold or brass or whatever. No more breaking my stones."
What does it mean? Are all the people who say, "Oh my god" over and over- are they going to burn in hell?
Or, how about the "vain" repetition group? "Hey Brigham, we don't want to use the name for the priesthood The Holy Order of God or something like that cause that is saying God too much and God does not like that. Let's use a word that no one has heard of, let alone spell, like Mel-kez-dick."
This is one more thing that God was so worried about that he gave old Moses a couple of stones with things written on them so old Moses would not forget them. Then Moses threw down these stones- he didn't care if God wrote them or not- because the people were naughty when he, Moses, was up chatting it up with God. Good old Moses. Wonder what he thought when he went back to God and asked for some newly written stones.
Course God got tired of writing on stones, or anything since then. Moses ruined that for all of us. Jerk. Threw down the stones. So God decided that he is not going to write anything down again for man. "You are on your own. I will tell you and you will write it on paper or gold or brass or whatever. No more breaking my stones."
"Let no man count himself righteous who permits a wrong he could avert". N.N. Riddell
Re: 2nd Commandment
Of all the lards that humans have invented, I think the Flying Spaghetti Monster is my favorite of whom's name I like to take in vain. (At this precise instant in time.) I wonder if in Flying Spaghetti Monster world, Flying Spaghetti Monster-Satan wins when you call the Flying Spaghetti Monster "FSM" ?Just This Guy wrote: ↑Wed Dec 05, 2018 9:46 amThe 2nd commandment says to not take the lards name in vain.
No matter what, may the Flying Spaghetti Monster blesses us with saucy balls. (Vain?)
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You can surrender without a prayer...
IDKSAF -RubinHighlander
You can surrender without a prayer...
Re: 2nd Commandment
I thought that was the third commandment. The second one is about graven images, isn't it?
Based on what I remember about the Hebrew translation, the third commandment is more about using God's name vainly, or for vanity purposes, rather than just about profanity. I took it to mean that God isn't happy with those using his name to get gain, or to those who profess their devotion but have hearts far from him.
So, less about Jim Bob saying Gawd Dammit and more about Reverend Jim saying let me pray to God for you, son, please drop a twenty to help God's work (and my boat payment). Amen.
Based on what I remember about the Hebrew translation, the third commandment is more about using God's name vainly, or for vanity purposes, rather than just about profanity. I took it to mean that God isn't happy with those using his name to get gain, or to those who profess their devotion but have hearts far from him.
So, less about Jim Bob saying Gawd Dammit and more about Reverend Jim saying let me pray to God for you, son, please drop a twenty to help God's work (and my boat payment). Amen.
Re: 2nd Commandment
My understanding is along these lines as well. I don't think the commandment has much to do with profaning God's name.Cnsl1 wrote: ↑Wed Dec 05, 2018 5:01 pm
Based on what I remember about the Hebrew translation, the third commandment is more about using God's name vainly, or for vanity purposes, rather than just about profanity. I took it to mean that God isn't happy with those using his name to get gain, or to those who profess their devotion but have hearts far from him.
“How valuable is a faith that is dependent on the maintenance of ignorance? If faith can only thrive in the absence of the knowledge of its origins, history, and competing theological concepts, then what is it we really have to hold on to?”
D Brisbin
D Brisbin
Re: 2nd Commandment
The Second Commandment refers to:
- "Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image" under the Philonic division used by Hellenistic Jews,and Protestants.
- "Thou shalt have no other gods before me. Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image" under the Talmudic division of the third-century Jewish Talmud.
- "Thou shalt not take the name of the Lord thy God in vain" under the Augustinian division used by Roman Catholics and Lutherans.
- "Don't say naughty words" under the Mormonian dispensation used by the villagers in the Orem-Provo prefecture.
Good faith does not require evidence, but it also does not turn a blind eye to that evidence. Otherwise, it becomes misplaced faith.
-- Moksha
-- Moksha
Re: 2nd Commandment
According to my Jewish Study Bible, taking the name of God/Jehovah in vain refers in this instance to swearing falsely by his name.
To expand: When making an oath, making a covenant, testifying regarding the truth of any legal situation, if the Lord's name is invoked....one cannot renig, give false information, fail to keep the bargain, etc., etc.
To do so would imply that the name of Jehovah really meant nothing to the swearer and that he/she actually had no respect for God or his power and position.
That being said it doesn't mean that using the name of God or Christ as an expletive is Kosher. Christ said of His Father: "Hallowed be thy name."
So I see neither profaning the name of God/Christ or falsely "taking" (invoking) them as authoritative to be a good thing.![Wink ;)](./images/smilies/icon_e_wink.gif)
To expand: When making an oath, making a covenant, testifying regarding the truth of any legal situation, if the Lord's name is invoked....one cannot renig, give false information, fail to keep the bargain, etc., etc.
To do so would imply that the name of Jehovah really meant nothing to the swearer and that he/she actually had no respect for God or his power and position.
That being said it doesn't mean that using the name of God or Christ as an expletive is Kosher. Christ said of His Father: "Hallowed be thy name."
So I see neither profaning the name of God/Christ or falsely "taking" (invoking) them as authoritative to be a good thing.
![Wink ;)](./images/smilies/icon_e_wink.gif)
"There is but one straight course, and that is to seek truth and pursue it steadily."
"Truth will ultimately prevail where there is pains to bring it to light."
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"Truth will ultimately prevail where there is pains to bring it to light."
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- felixfabulous
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Re: 2nd Commandment
The words "Lord" and "God" in the Bible are English placeholders for the Hebrew names for Jehovah (Lord) and Elohim (God). So, using the name God is using a title or placeholder, not the actual name of God. My kids were watching a Studio C about funny greek god names, like the god of toilet paper. I was thinking, how is this acceptable, but someone saying something like "Good God" would be blasphemous?
The Biblical scholarship I've read equates taking the name of God in vain with attributing or invoking the name of God inappropriately, like saying God told you to do something that he didn't (like killing every man, woman, child and beast of a village, for example). That seems like a much better way to view it, but brings up all kinds of ways to question authority and previous actions, so I think we stick with the nonsensical interpretation we have now.
Also, this is what Joseph Smith said to Martin Harris when he lost the 116 pages, how is this not taking the name of God in vain according to our interpretation? "Oh, my God! ... All is lost! all is lost! What shall I do? I have sinned—it is I who tempted the wrath of God"
The Biblical scholarship I've read equates taking the name of God in vain with attributing or invoking the name of God inappropriately, like saying God told you to do something that he didn't (like killing every man, woman, child and beast of a village, for example). That seems like a much better way to view it, but brings up all kinds of ways to question authority and previous actions, so I think we stick with the nonsensical interpretation we have now.
Also, this is what Joseph Smith said to Martin Harris when he lost the 116 pages, how is this not taking the name of God in vain according to our interpretation? "Oh, my God! ... All is lost! all is lost! What shall I do? I have sinned—it is I who tempted the wrath of God"
- Just This Guy
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Re: 2nd Commandment
felixfabulous wrote: ↑Thu Dec 06, 2018 7:11 amAlso, this is what Joseph Smith said to Martin Harris when he lost the 116 pages, how is this not taking the name of God in vain according to our interpretation? "Oh, my God! ... All is lost! all is lost! What shall I do? I have sinned—it is I who tempted the wrath of God"
Do you happen to have a citation for this?
"The story so far: In the beginning the Universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move." -- Douglas Adams
- felixfabulous
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Re: 2nd Commandment
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lost_116_ ... te_note-22Just This Guy wrote:Do you happen to have a citation for this?
It looks like it comes from Rough Stone Rolling
- Just This Guy
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Re: 2nd Commandment
Thank you, Felixfaulous!
"The story so far: In the beginning the Universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move." -- Douglas Adams
Re: 2nd Commandment
You know in general conference when they tell you what God wants you to do but it's really what they want you to do, or when they tell you what God thinks about something but it's really what they think? You know how they make their living doing that, and how they are constantly surrounded by an adoring public who treat them like kings?
That.
That.
“The easy confidence with which I know another man's religion is folly teaches me to suspect that my own is also.” -Mark Twain
Jesus: "The Kingdom of God is within you." The Buddha: "Be your own light."
Jesus: "The Kingdom of God is within you." The Buddha: "Be your own light."
Re: 2nd Commandment
The last thing Joseph said after he was shot was "Oh Lord! my God!". No one ever seems to be bothered by that.
I think if I said that after hitting my thumb with a hammer it would turn a few heads here in Utah County.
I think if I said that after hitting my thumb with a hammer it would turn a few heads here in Utah County.
Stands next to Kolob, called by the Egyptians Oliblish, which is the next grand governing creation near to the celestial or the place where God resides; holding the key of power also, pertaining to other planets; as revealed from God to Abraham
Re: 2nd Commandment
Hate to paint this picture for you but I'm one of those people who when they throw up, we REALLY wretch in a big and exceedingly painful way. Sounds like I'm wrestling a grizzly bear. As a matter of fact in 41 years of marriage I've only done it twice. The second time being about six months ago.
My wife knows I'm kind of a stickler about using the Lord's name properly so when I finally let an "Oh, God!" escape my mouth it sort of punctuated how bad things really were. And I can take some pretty good pain....ended up in emergency.
![Rolling Eyes :roll:](./images/smilies/icon_rolleyes.gif)
I guess I wouldn't blame Joseph too much for crying out after having been shot several times. It's a hard way to go.
![Neutral :|](./images/smilies/icon_neutral.gif)
"There is but one straight course, and that is to seek truth and pursue it steadily."
"Truth will ultimately prevail where there is pains to bring it to light."
George Washington
"Truth will ultimately prevail where there is pains to bring it to light."
George Washington
Re: 2nd Commandment
Except that Joseph when he was "falling out the window" was repeating the Masonic distress call in an attempt to save his own @ss.Palerider wrote: ↑Thu Dec 06, 2018 10:15 am
Hate to paint this picture for you but I'm one of those people who when they throw up, we REALLY wretch in a big and exceedingly painful way. Sounds like I'm wrestling a grizzly bear. As a matter of fact in 41 years of marriage I've only done it twice. The second time being about six months ago.
My wife knows I'm kind of a stickler about using the Lord's name properly so when I finally let an "Oh, God!" escape my mouth it sort of punctuated how bad things really were. And I can take some pretty good pain....ended up in emergency.![]()
I guess I wouldn't blame Joseph too much for crying out after having been shot several times. It's a hard way to go.![]()
Were you hoping that the Masons would help you with your pain when you uttered those words palerider?
Faith does not give you the answers, it just stops you asking the questions. -Frater Ravus
IDKSAF -RubinHighlander
You can surrender without a prayer...
IDKSAF -RubinHighlander
You can surrender without a prayer...
Re: 2nd Commandment
![Very Happy :D](./images/smilies/icon_e_biggrin.gif)
HaHa, yes, I've heard that as well. And it's probably true.
Any port in a storm, eh?
Although I doubt any Mason's would have had the courage to enter my bathroom at that point.
![Very Happy :D](./images/smilies/icon_e_biggrin.gif)
"There is but one straight course, and that is to seek truth and pursue it steadily."
"Truth will ultimately prevail where there is pains to bring it to light."
George Washington
"Truth will ultimately prevail where there is pains to bring it to light."
George Washington
- Just This Guy
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Re: 2nd Commandment
So if the original intent of the commandment against taking the lord's name in vain was against falsely acting as a mouthpiece of god, when did it morph into just about cussing?
It is interesting that this is NOT a Mormon issue. The interpretation on it just being about cussing in general is common throughout Christianity. Billy Graham's website says basically the same thing as LDS.org does on the topic.
It is interesting that this is NOT a Mormon issue. The interpretation on it just being about cussing in general is common throughout Christianity. Billy Graham's website says basically the same thing as LDS.org does on the topic.
"The story so far: In the beginning the Universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move." -- Douglas Adams
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Re: 2nd Commandment
Yep. In my opinion, whenever the Brethren presume to speak for God, whatever comes out of their mouths is blasphemy. And Joseph Smith was about as blasphemous as a person can get, pretending to speak for God and using God's name to get power, money, and sex.Hagoth wrote: ↑Thu Dec 06, 2018 9:28 amYou know in general conference when they tell you what God wants you to do but it's really what they want you to do, or when they tell you what God thinks about something but it's really what they think? You know how they make their living doing that, and how they are constantly surrounded by an adoring public who treat them like kings?
That.
The "heathen" who routinely says "OMG!" is not 1/1000th as blasphemous as the phonies who pretend to speak for God. I think this commandment is completely misapplied, and we've been condemning the wrong people all these years.
"The truth is elegantly simple. The lie needs complex apologia. 4 simple words: Joe made it up. It answers everything with the perfect simplicity of Occam's Razor. Every convoluted excuse withers." - Some guy on Reddit called disposazelph
Re: 2nd Commandment
LDS scriptures seem to say that taking his name in vain is when a person says something by God's authority but he really didn't tell them to say it. One example that comes to mind is how displeased the Lord is with people using the word Mormon to describe the LDS Church and its members.
61 Wherefore, let all men beware how they take my name in their lips—
62 For behold, verily I say, that many there be who are under this condemnation, who use the name of the Lord, and use it in vain, having not authority.
63 Wherefore, let the church repent of their sins, and I, the Lord, will own them; otherwise they shall be cut off.
64 Remember that that which cometh from above is sacred, and must be spoken with care, and by constraint of the Spirit; and in this there is no condemnation, and ye receive the Spirit through prayer; wherefore, without this there remaineth condemnation.
D&C 63
https://www.lds.org/scriptures/dc-testa ... ng=eng#p61
Just This Guy wrote: ↑Wed Dec 05, 2018 9:46 amDW had an interesting thought and I was interested to get your take on it.
The 2nd commandment says to not take the lards name in vain. For most people, that means something like not using the name of god out of context or for purposes of profanity or an an explative. Profanity has also been expanded to cover any word or phrase that is not socially allowable.
Is this really what it means? Are there any examples of it being used in that context in that is the scriptures? Are there any examples of people specifically violating the 2nd commandment in the scriptures at all?
Maybe this goes back to the discussion of god being the god of nitpicking, but when casual language usage is included next to the prohibition on murder, that seams out of place.
Is the idea of "taking the lord name in vain" a bit more literal, with taking the lord name and putting it on something god did not actually say? 'Taking' the name of god for false quotes. Whether it be false prophecy, or using the name of god for personal gain and enrichment (false tithes), it's using the name of god not build up the kingdom.
DW and I joke that if a business uses bible verses or Christian symbols in their logos or advertising, it's usually a warning that they are shady at best. Not always, but the stereotype does tend to exist for a reason. Is that more what the 2nd commandment is referring to? To not use the name of god to defraud or mislead people?
There are 2 Gods. One who created us. The other you created. The God you made up is just like you-thrives on flattery-makes you live in fear.
Believe in the God who created us. And the God you created should be abolished.
PK
Believe in the God who created us. And the God you created should be abolished.
PK
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