No one left to ex

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1smartdodog
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No one left to ex

Post by 1smartdodog » Tue Dec 18, 2018 6:11 pm

Is the church running out of high profile people to excommunicate? Seems that way. Maybe some other vocal person will come along, but it seems most are out now. Maybe that was their plan.
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Red Ryder
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Re: No one left to ex

Post by Red Ryder » Tue Dec 18, 2018 6:58 pm

I'm guessing after Gina Colvin that Consig is next. But he'll probably have to turn up the apostate rhetoric in his podcast a few notches before they pounce.

After that it's probably a vacuum that will be filled by some of these young whipper snappers on the prepped sites. Like that lady, what was her name?
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jfro18
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Re: No one left to ex

Post by jfro18 » Tue Dec 18, 2018 8:23 pm

I'd love to get ex'ed some day, but I have no following nor do they have any idea who I am. That could complicate my goal there.

I'd rather get ex'ed than resign - that's for sure.

Thoughtful
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Re: No one left to ex

Post by Thoughtful » Tue Dec 18, 2018 9:17 pm

Red Ryder wrote:
Tue Dec 18, 2018 6:58 pm
I'm guessing after Gina Colvin that Consig is next. But he'll probably have to turn up the apostate rhetoric in his podcast a few notches before they pounce.

After that it's probably a vacuum that will be filled by some of these young whipper snappers on the prepped sites. Like that lady, what was her name?
I guess I thought Consiglieri was anonymous?

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IT_Veteran
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Re: No one left to ex

Post by IT_Veteran » Tue Dec 18, 2018 9:39 pm

Not me, I’m already resigned. If not, I’m sure that somebody in my wife’s ward would have complained about me already.

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wtfluff
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Re: No one left to ex

Post by wtfluff » Tue Dec 18, 2018 9:44 pm

Thoughtful wrote:
Tue Dec 18, 2018 9:17 pm
Red Ryder wrote:
Tue Dec 18, 2018 6:58 pm
I'm guessing after Gina Colvin that Consig is next. But he'll probably have to turn up the apostate rhetoric in his podcast a few notches before they pounce.

After that it's probably a vacuum that will be filled by some of these young whipper snappers on the prepped sites. Like that lady, what was her name?
I guess I thought Consiglieri was anonymous?
I know he shared his name on at least one podcast that I listened to, so...

Like others have mentioned: I'm a nobody so I don't see them coming after me. Though if they decided to ex me, I think I'd blab it as far and wide as possible, so I guess I would get .015 seconds of fame on "exmormon" podcasts. I'd likely resign anyway: Show up at the kangaroo court just to look everyone in the eye and tell them that they know nothing about me, a few more sentences as directed by Holy the ghost, plop my resignation down, and go enjoy too much ethanol after a useless, likely a bit stressful "meeting."
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Just This Guy
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Re: No one left to ex

Post by Just This Guy » Wed Dec 19, 2018 5:34 am

Consiglieri's identity really isn't that hard to figure out. I was able to connect the dots with about half an hour of online research using details from his podcasts. IT's a fun little Google exercise, but doesn't gain much in the end. I actually think that that will be an interesting excommunication to watch from a distance. Then going after a practicing lawyer couple potentially be very problematic in several ways.

I think that one or two of the Infants on Thrones people are still members, so they may be targets, but their limelight has been slowly fading over the last couple years, so I think their potential threat level is not as high as it once was.

One thing that resent history has shown is that these are the church trying to attach the Hydra. You chop off one head and another ones grows back. They got John Dehlin, and soon after Bill Reel start to grow in popularity. Time will tell who the next one will be after Bill.

I do wonder about Tyler Glen. He has been very vocal about his attacks, he just hasn't personally attacked the Q15 yet.
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Hagoth
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Re: No one left to ex

Post by Hagoth » Wed Dec 19, 2018 6:52 am

Just This Guy wrote:
Wed Dec 19, 2018 5:34 am
I do wonder about Tyler Glen. He has been very vocal about his attacks, he just hasn't personally attacked the Q15 yet.
I think he's too well known outside of Churchofjesuschristoflatterdaysaintsism. Nobody outside cares about Bill Reel, but when they ex a celeb that they have previously used as a promotional tool they will get the wrong kind of press.

Joseph Bishop would also get bad press, because they would be admitting that his shenanigans were going on right under their noses and there's enough evidence to connect the dots to a cover-up.
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Red Ryder
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Re: No one left to ex

Post by Red Ryder » Wed Dec 19, 2018 9:13 am

Let's take a closer look at the niche Mormons:

The Vocal Podcasters - the Q15 already cleaned out the loudest and most listened to barring Consig. He's next. They know who he is.

The Let's Try To Make Mormonism Work semi believing - This niche group led by Bill Reel, seems to have pushed Bill into the Vocal Podcasters niche which fueled by his desire to follow in the exact footsteps of John Dehlin, led to his excommunication. Seeing Bill get exed, moved these niche members out of the semi believing crowd and into the "see ya, we be leaving" crowd. This group makes up the daily new user registrations over at reddit exmo.

The Morality Police and Sexual Abuse Crusaders - Led by Sam Young, this important faction of Mormonism Up-risers has been squashed and reduced to a self starving street preacher. Nothing to see here, we've changed the masturbation interview process and parents are allowed to attend.

The Feminist - cleared out the Ordain Women folks. The Feminist Mormon Housewives have had their balls removed through natural attrition and lack of interest. It seems the Feminists have taken a break to make cookies while they implement their sleeper cell agenda led by a woman named Wendy. Rumor suggests she has the Prophet's ear and perhaps even his Melchizedek.

The SunStoners - They seem harmless and are already intermingled with apostates, fundamentalists, and dirty intellectuals. They've been around for decades under the cover of modestly accepted liberalism. Don't confuse this group with the Medical Marijuana Prop 2 fighters.

The Preppers - the Mormons in this heavily prepared and heavily armed camp, are a necessary annoyance to the Church leadership. They are some of the best believers in the church so excommunication is merely a threat to squash the crazy lady visionaries writing books about the second coming and harming Deseret Book sales.

The Homosexual Believers - this niche, led by Tom Christofferson and Richard Ostler, threatens to normalize same sex relationships and soften the long hard stand against homosexuality. While intolerable to the old Packer and Oaks guard, this group is considered relevant to today's slight undercurrent of change that will later become the backdoor basis and support for the 2078 revelation announcing that all gay members and their children may fully participate in all church activity including temple marriage.

What other groups did I miss?
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Yobispo
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Re: No one left to ex

Post by Yobispo » Wed Dec 19, 2018 10:07 am

jfro18 wrote:
Tue Dec 18, 2018 8:23 pm
I'd love to get ex'ed some day, but I have no following nor do they have any idea who I am. That could complicate my goal there.

I'd rather get ex'ed than resign - that's for sure.
For a long time I played out my Court O Love in my head. Frankly, I had a very well rehearsed speech that would have sounded a lot like Bill Reel's speech (or at least in content, he was brilliant). In my fantasy, the HC'ers who have known me for 25 years would acknowledge my points and agree that the problems were the problems, not me, and we'd all call a time out and discuss it like grown men who respect each others' integrity instead of a 16 to 1 rumble. Like I said, it was my fantasy. And sort of like the arguments I always win in the shower, it stayed a fantasy.

I owe Bro Reel a debt of gratitude for showing me, again, what would happen even if I laid out the problems and the Court even admitted I wasn't wrong. I would have been ex'd just like Bill because the whole thing is predetermined anyway. That, plus a nagging feeling that I don't want to be on the wrong side of the next LGBT-church snafu, led me to resign last August. And like many before me, if you told me I'd be right here 10 years ago - you know the rest.

I will be a very interested bystander for the rest of my life, but I'm out with my integrity and starting to get my sanity back.

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græy
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Re: No one left to ex

Post by græy » Wed Dec 19, 2018 11:42 am

Red Ryder wrote:
Wed Dec 19, 2018 9:13 am
It seems the Feminists have taken a break to make cookies while they implement their sleeper cell agenda led by a woman named Wendy. Rumor suggests she has the Prophet's ear and perhaps even his Melchizedek.
:lol:

What is Lindsay Hansen Park's status these days. Between continuing YoP, running Sunstone, and being occasionally vocal against the church's bad practices (youth interviews, etc.) she could be on this list of targets.
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Re: No one left to ex

Post by Thoughtful » Wed Dec 19, 2018 8:17 pm

Red Ryder wrote:
Wed Dec 19, 2018 9:13 am
Let's take a closer look at the niche Mormons:

The Vocal Podcasters - the Q15 already cleaned out the loudest and most listened to barring Consig. He's next. They know who he is.

The Let's Try To Make Mormonism Work semi believing - This niche group led by Bill Reel, seems to have pushed Bill into the Vocal Podcasters niche which fueled by his desire to follow in the exact footsteps of John Dehlin, led to his excommunication. Seeing Bill get exed, moved these niche members out of the semi believing crowd and into the "see ya, we be leaving" crowd. This group makes up the daily new user registrations over at reddit exmo.

The Morality Police and Sexual Abuse Crusaders - Led by Sam Young, this important faction of Mormonism Up-risers has been squashed and reduced to a self starving street preacher. Nothing to see here, we've changed the masturbation interview process and parents are allowed to attend.

The Feminist - cleared out the Ordain Women folks. The Feminist Mormon Housewives have had their balls removed through natural attrition and lack of interest. It seems the Feminists have taken a break to make cookies while they implement their sleeper cell agenda led by a woman named Wendy. Rumor suggests she has the Prophet's ear and perhaps even his Melchizedek.

The SunStoners - They seem harmless and are already intermingled with apostates, fundamentalists, and dirty intellectuals. They've been around for decades under the cover of modestly accepted liberalism. Don't confuse this group with the Medical Marijuana Prop 2 fighters.

The Preppers - the Mormons in this heavily prepared and heavily armed camp, are a necessary annoyance to the Church leadership. They are some of the best believers in the church so excommunication is merely a threat to squash the crazy lady visionaries writing books about the second coming and harming Deseret Book sales.

The Homosexual Believers - this niche, led by Tom Christofferson and Richard Ostler, threatens to normalize same sex relationships and soften the long hard stand against homosexuality. While intolerable to the old Packer and Oaks guard, this group is considered relevant to today's slight undercurrent of change that will later become the backdoor basis and support for the 2078 revelation announcing that all gay members and their children may fully participate in all church activity including temple marriage.

What other groups did I miss?
The feminists I know really dislike Wendy.

The feminist groups seem to be leaning postmo because most don't see a future trying to change the church toward equality. I wouldn't say they are baking cookies as much as focusing on their families, careers, interests, and figuring out how to carve out their identity from the ashes of their heritage. Gina Colvin and Lindsay Park have been part of these circles and the hard work is creating an intersectional program in mormon feminism. Anyway most are rejecting the Q15s authority and the mofem groups are leaning out. But there's a lot of overlap between PLDSC, ATF, and MoFem communities.

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Hagoth
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Re: No one left to ex

Post by Hagoth » Wed Dec 19, 2018 8:22 pm

græy wrote:
Wed Dec 19, 2018 11:42 am
What is Lindsay Hansen Park's status these days. Between continuing YoP, running Sunstone, and being occasionally vocal against the church's bad practices (youth interviews, etc.) she could be on this list of targets.
I don't think she has called out or embarrassed a Q15 member by name. That seems to be the bridge too far.
“The easy confidence with which I know another man's religion is folly teaches me to suspect that my own is also.” -Mark Twain

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Re: No one left to ex

Post by wtfluff » Thu Dec 20, 2018 7:36 am

Here's a bit of a surprise: The outcome of Gina Colvin's tribunal: "No Action."
Faith does not give you the answers, it just stops you asking the questions. -Frater Ravus

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IT_Veteran
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Re: No one left to ex

Post by IT_Veteran » Thu Dec 20, 2018 10:00 am

wtfluff wrote:
Thu Dec 20, 2018 7:36 am
Here's a bit of a surprise: The outcome of Gina Colvin's tribunal: "No Action."
I was surprised by that as well. Maybe the further removed from SLC one is, the more leeway the SP has to actually weigh evidence.

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Re: No one left to ex

Post by Corsair » Thu Dec 20, 2018 10:34 am

wtfluff wrote:
Thu Dec 20, 2018 7:36 am
Here's a bit of a surprise: The outcome of Gina Colvin's tribunal: "No Action."
I can see two possibilities. First is that her local leadership knows her well enough and had enough independent autonomy to make their own decision.
They realized that her testimony of Jesus Christ is entirely valid along with her faithful observance of New Testament commandments. Excommunication would not help Sister Colvin even if it leaves her membership in some unusual state.

On the other hand, perhaps some level of leadership realized that the public fallout would be far worse than any benefit to the institutional church. This comes right on the heels of Bill Reel's excommunication and the faithful need a breather before some new public disciplinary process. Just leave Sister Colvin alone and she will quietly follow her Anglican spirituality without attracting a following. But, if or when she does attract a following, a new council could be convened.

I truly wonder about the status of Lindsay Hansen Park. Her work with Sunstone and "Year of Polygamy" is significant.

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wtfluff
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Re: No one left to ex

Post by wtfluff » Thu Dec 20, 2018 10:57 am

Well, here's the thing: Gina is actually a baptized Anglican (and baptized mormon. :mrgreen: ) Doesn't that "require" excommunication? Or is there some wording about "Join another church and advocate for it's principles" or something like that, which the council used as an excuse not to excommunicate? (I'm too lazy to hunt down the exact wording in an official LDS-inc. handbook.)

Another likely reason? Gina is a woman. She's not as "important" as a "priesthood holder" like Dehlin or Reel, so no-one will listen to her anyway. In a sexist, patriarchal, misogynist corporation masquerading as a church, maybe it's OK for a woman to speak up, because, bless their heart, no-one cares.

I hope it is her local "leadership" raising their middle fingers to SLC, I guess time will tell if they are soon replaced and Gina ends up in a new tribunal, with new "leadership" who will do the dirty work "correctly."
Faith does not give you the answers, it just stops you asking the questions. -Frater Ravus

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2bizE
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Re: No one left to ex

Post by 2bizE » Sat Dec 22, 2018 9:56 pm

1smartdodog wrote:
Tue Dec 18, 2018 6:11 pm
Is the church running out of high profile people to excommunicate? Seems that way. Maybe some other vocal person will come along, but it seems most are out now. Maybe that was their plan.
You may be right that we are running out of high profile Baby Boomers and Gen Xers. Luckily, we have the millennials. How many millennials do you know that are members and oppose the church? Right, the same number as me. Zero. This group causes more problems for the church than any generation. They just leave. Quietly. While the other groups kick against the pricks until they are finally ex’d, the millennials are different. When Oaks badmouths gays, us older folks complain and continue to be members stuck in the middle because many of us are too afraid of the family ties that will be threatened if we leave. The millennials just gather around their gay and straight friends and simply walk away. They don’t give a $hit what happens.
And this group, my friends, will have more impact against the church than all of the great apostates before. The church will diminish in numbers until it is irrelevant. I imagine the generation after the millennials will be even better at this.
~2bizE

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moksha
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Re: No one left to ex

Post by moksha » Sun Dec 23, 2018 12:34 am

wtfluff wrote:
Thu Dec 20, 2018 10:57 am
Another likely reason? Gina is a woman. She's not as "important" as a "priesthood holder" like Dehlin or Reel, so no-one will listen to her anyway. In a sexist, patriarchal, misogynist corporation masquerading as a church, maybe it's OK for a woman to speak up, because, bless their heart, no-one cares.
A poster elsewhere has suggested that sparing Gina was more a function of New Zealand sensibilities than what one would find closer to Provo, Utah. The content of her message may have carried more weight than a willingness to comply with an excommunication order from HQ. If so, that would mean Zealander Mormons possess the capacity to think for themselves.
Good faith does not require evidence, but it also does not turn a blind eye to that evidence. Otherwise, it becomes misplaced faith.
-- Moksha

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Hagoth
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Re: No one left to ex

Post by Hagoth » Sun Dec 23, 2018 7:34 am

moksha wrote:
Sun Dec 23, 2018 12:34 am
wtfluff wrote:
Thu Dec 20, 2018 10:57 am
Another likely reason? Gina is a woman. She's not as "important" as a "priesthood holder" like Dehlin or Reel, so no-one will listen to her anyway. In a sexist, patriarchal, misogynist corporation masquerading as a church, maybe it's OK for a woman to speak up, because, bless their heart, no-one cares.
A poster elsewhere has suggested that sparing Gina was more a function of New Zealand sensibilities than what one would find closer to Provo, Utah. The content of her message may have carried more weight than a willingness to comply with an excommunication order from HQ. If so, that would mean Zealander Mormons possess the capacity to think for themselves.
They're too far away. It could take months for a communique stamped with the king's seal to reach there via the good steamer Zion. I say cut them free and let them do Mormonism Maori style. Maybe Salt Lake could learn something from an actual culture to temper their manufactured society.
“The easy confidence with which I know another man's religion is folly teaches me to suspect that my own is also.” -Mark Twain

Jesus: "The Kingdom of God is within you." The Buddha: "Be your own light."

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