Mr. and Mrs. Græy's Stuff

Discussions about negotiating relationships between faithful LDS believers and the apostates who love them. This applies in particular to mixed-faith marriages, but relations with children, parents, siblings, friends, and ward members is very welcome.
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græy
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Re: Mr. and Mrs. Græy's Stuff

Post by græy » Thu Apr 04, 2019 8:54 am

Its been a crazy few weeks and I need a place to let some of it out for a bit.

I had a relatively minor out-patient surgery mid-last week, that in an of itself isn't too much to worry about, but it happened in the middle of an otherwise stressful work week.

In addition to that, I mentioned in another post that I had a job interview last week. It ended up going very well, but I was apparently much more stressed about it than even I thought I was.

Queue Fast Sunday where I'm on tap to conduct sacrament meeting, including a brief intro testimony. I really HATE doing those. I can't in good conscience give the standard "I know its true!" testimony. So I usually end up share some verse about love or forgiveness from the NT and giving and quick anecdotal experience.

This week, I had something similar cooked up in my brain. But as I stood there, I got to the end of my few thoughts and suddenly I wanted to tell my wife how grateful I am for her continued support and encouragement through recent events (i.e. this stupid WC meeting.(NOM), the surgery, and my interview). As I proceeded to say just that a wall of exhaustion, stress, and emotion hit me simultaneously in the face and back of the head. I found myself struggling (and TBH failing) to not cry.

I talked about not only my wife, but my kids. Seeing them smile, and be confident in who they are, that they are loved. I talked about trials, and being kind to each other because everyone is struggling with something. I reiterated that life is hard, but I'm grateful for and love my family. I said some other stuff, but I don't really remember what it was now.

I wrapped up, turned time over to the other members, grabbed a tissue and sat down. It was, somewhat embarrassing, and I am still a little confused about where it came from.

The SP 2nd counselor (who I consider a good friend) was sitting next to me on the stand. As I sat down he leaned over and just said "Thank you." :?:

After church, my wife asked me where that came from as well. I had no answer. She asked me what she should say when people asked her what was going on, or if we are ok. I reassured her that no one would ask. To my knowledge, no one has.

Stay tuned for part 2.
Last edited by græy on Thu Apr 04, 2019 11:50 am, edited 1 time in total.
I'm better than dirt... well most dirt. Not that fancy store bought stuff, I can't compete with that... full of nutrients and everything. -Moe Sizlack

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Fifi de la Vergne
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Re: Mr. and Mrs. Græy's Stuff

Post by Fifi de la Vergne » Thu Apr 04, 2019 10:52 am

Hugs. Sometimes it all just gets to be too much to carry inside. I'm glad we can be here for you to vent to.
Joy is the emotional expression of the courageous Yes to one's own true being.

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græy
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Re: Mr. and Mrs. Græy's Stuff

Post by græy » Thu Apr 04, 2019 11:50 am

Part 2. The job.

The out-of-state job interview went well. They made me an offer, and while it is a slight raise in base salary, due to higher taxes and medical deductibles, it is likely that I'd be losing some money each month on the deal. It is also a MUCH smaller company than I've ever worked for before, which makes me a bit nervous. If anyone has any advice for making counter offers, I'm very open to it.

So, we've been discussing moving. The move would put us back in DW's home state. She is very excited about the possibility and noticeably depressed when she starts to think it might not happen. I am stuck in the middle, struggling to convince myself to leave a very stable job for the unknown while on the other hand excited about new possibilities.

It has led to some very interesting and sometimes heated discussions between us. She insists she'd be happy if we stay. But at the same time she complains year-round about the climate where we live now, and even though we've been here for more than a decade she laments that upgrading to a slightly bigger house (sisters don't want to share rooms with brothers forever, it seems) in this city means we'd be "permanent" residents, which makes her sad.

Whenever we try to talk about all of it, she insists that whatever I'm feeling in that moment (whether its pro-moving or pro-staying) is God's answer to our dilemma and there must be some reason for us to either stay or go, beyond just life advancing and evolving as it does.

If I mention I'm having a hard time letting go of friends or professional network here... Then God must have a reason for me to stay and be in connection with these people.

If I mention that I'm excited about the possible growth of this company... That must be God telling me of my great potential.

If I mention that the numbers just don't make it clear what I should do... That is God telling me to rely in him. Rely on him for what? All I can rely in revelation for is contradictory feelings depending on the time of day, what I had for lunch, and whether the last person I talked to was spontaneous or reserved in nature.
I'm better than dirt... well most dirt. Not that fancy store bought stuff, I can't compete with that... full of nutrients and everything. -Moe Sizlack

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græy
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Re: Mr. and Mrs. Græy's Stuff

Post by græy » Thu Apr 04, 2019 12:03 pm

Fifi de la Vergne wrote:
Thu Apr 04, 2019 10:52 am
Hugs. Sometimes it all just gets to be too much to carry inside. I'm glad we can be here for you to vent to.
Thank you Fifi.

I'm still trying to catch up on all of the NOM stuff I missed during the past few weeks. I was glad to read that your son's wedding went well. It sounds like you managed being outside as well as possible.

I agree with your notion that any possible changes in that real, while welcome, would be like twisting the dagger on people who were forced to miss a loved one's ceremony. I can only imagine how frustrating that could be.
I'm better than dirt... well most dirt. Not that fancy store bought stuff, I can't compete with that... full of nutrients and everything. -Moe Sizlack

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Red Ryder
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Re: Mr. and Mrs. Græy's Stuff

Post by Red Ryder » Thu Apr 04, 2019 8:02 pm

Congrats on the job offer.

You have nothing to lose with a counter offer. Ask them for what you want and see what happens. The worst thing they could say is no.

That is if you truly want to make a move.

Jobs will always come and go. Planting your feet where you choose and like to live, well that's the real decision.
Those who do not move do not notice their chains. —Rosa Luxemburg

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jfro18
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Re: Mr. and Mrs. Græy's Stuff

Post by jfro18 » Fri Apr 05, 2019 5:28 am

Congrats!

Definitely do a counter offer -- I haven't had a "real" job in a while but I worked with HR departments for a while and I know in many jobs that's not just common but expected. Usually you'd just phrase it as you did here - you might not be looking for a huge step up, but you definitely don't want to lose $$ after insurance/taxes/whatever so you need them to meet you at XYZ amount so it's a lateral move at least financially.

Good luck with the other stuff... if I knew the answer I'd gladly give it, but I'm still going through it too. :)

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Linked
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Re: Mr. and Mrs. Græy's Stuff

Post by Linked » Fri Apr 05, 2019 11:11 am

HR departments like to have something to tie the counter offer to, like a competing offer.

You might consider getting your current job involved if you are comfortable with that and it is not taboo in your work. Tell your boss that you have received an offer for more money at another company and are considering taking it, and he may ask if you would consider staying if they matched/gave you a raise. Take that amount to the other company, along with whatever conversion rate for cost of living/other benefits, and see if they will pony up to get you. If not, hopefully at least you got a raise.

In this negotiation you can give as much or as little information as you want and feel comfortable about, though all other parties will ask for the information. In a negotiation information is super important, and the companies will give you very little and ask for everything, so don't feel bad in asking for money, they generally try to play on a sloped playing field. You need to make your alternatives look better than what either company is currently offering (that is, of course, easiest when the alternatives are better...).
"I would write about life. Every person would be exactly as important as any other. All facts would also be given equal weightiness. Nothing would be left out. Let others bring order to chaos. I would bring chaos to order" - Kurt Vonnegut

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slavereeno
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Re: Mr. and Mrs. Græy's Stuff

Post by slavereeno » Fri Apr 05, 2019 11:46 am

græy wrote:
Thu Apr 04, 2019 8:54 am
I wrapped up, turned time over to the other members, grabbed a tissue and sat down. It was, somewhat embarrassing, and I am still a little confused about where it came from.
First of all, good luck with the job choice. That kind of dissonance combined with church dissonance, combined with heath issues is a recipe for heightened emotions.

In fact I have had some work/church/health related issues recently also. A couple of Sundays ago, after church, I was making cookies with my daughters. We were listening to Les Miserables songs and my daughters were asking about some of the characters. As I was retelling some of the stories and answering questions about the love and sacrifices made by the characters, I broke down and began to uh, you know, leak water from the eyes. But it was similar to what you described, sudden emotions that took me a bit by surprise.

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græy
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Re: Mr. and Mrs. Græy's Stuff

Post by græy » Fri Apr 05, 2019 2:16 pm

Thank you, everyone. Still working out the job decisions. Time to make a final call is growing short.
slavereeno wrote:
Fri Apr 05, 2019 11:46 am
That kind of dissonance combined with church dissonance, combined with heath issues is a recipe for heightened emotions.

In fact I have had some work/church/health related issues recently also. A couple of Sundays ago, after church, I was making cookies with my daughters. We were listening to Les Miserables songs and my daughters were asking about some of the characters. As I was retelling some of the stories and answering questions about the love and sacrifices made by the characters, I broke down and began to uh, you know, leak water from the eyes. But it was similar to what you described, sudden emotions that took me a bit by surprise.
I'm happy to know I'm in good company. :)

My boys were whispering to DW throughout the whole fiasco... "What is wrong with dad? I've never seen him cry before." Ah... good times.
I'm better than dirt... well most dirt. Not that fancy store bought stuff, I can't compete with that... full of nutrients and everything. -Moe Sizlack

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græy
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Re: Mr. and Mrs. Græy's Stuff

Post by græy » Thu Apr 11, 2019 9:16 am

Another quick rant.

DW and I are still debating a move to another state. The new job offer is a small net-loss in terms of salary, and now my current job has countered that, increasing the loss we'd take if we go. That said, it is her home state, and she is not 100% happy where we are.

Part of the reason for her unhappiness is the fact that we have outgrown our current home and we'd like to move into something bigger. But despite earning what is otherwise a fairly hefty salary, we just cannot afford it. The local explosion of real estate values and corresponding property taxes along with our monthly 10% temple bill is absolutely killing us.

A few weeks ago another TBM family mentioned to me that they were looking at other houses as well. The wife of the family asked "Since you are in the bishopric you can authorize this: Could we pay tithing on a lesser definition? That would really help make a payment on a newer home." I laughed and told her I knew of many ways to define 10% of increase and I wouldn't judge anyone's personal choice on that. Her husband (who I think is the more TBM member of their team) laughed and quietly said no. And there it ended.

Later, I told my wife (who is friends with the other woman) about the question. She didn't respond either way.

So last night, while discussing options with regards to moving, whether in state or to the other state, I casually suggested we follow her friend's example and rethink the definition of tithing. She shook her head and told me I was walking a fine line. Then she got up and walked away. That was where the conversation ended.

There are days where I feel like she's starting understand me when I tell her things are not as we've always been taught. Nothing is black and white, including the church. Our conversations do sometimes include specifics (1st visions, anachronisms, faith-promoting but ultimately untrue stories, corrupt leaders being chosen by power of "discernment", etc.). But in the end, she is still choosing to close her eyes and plug her ears to the reality of our situation.

I don't think I can do this much longer.
I'm better than dirt... well most dirt. Not that fancy store bought stuff, I can't compete with that... full of nutrients and everything. -Moe Sizlack

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Red Ryder
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Re: Mr. and Mrs. Græy's Stuff

Post by Red Ryder » Thu Apr 11, 2019 10:22 am

Hey Graey,

Moving is an opportunity to step away from the church. You can be the inactive half assed guy in a new ward. Nobody will know your prior history or callings. You can be the guy "just supporting the wife". You can be anyone you want to be in a new ward.

Just saying.

In state move to a bigger house or out of state move to another job are both opportunities to step back out of your current church role.

You got to plan and strategize your exit.
Those who do not move do not notice their chains. —Rosa Luxemburg

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slavereeno
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Re: Mr. and Mrs. Græy's Stuff

Post by slavereeno » Thu Apr 11, 2019 1:04 pm

græy wrote:
Thu Apr 11, 2019 9:16 am
There are days where I feel like she's starting understand me when I tell her things are not as we've always been taught. Nothing is black and white, including the church. Our conversations do sometimes include specifics (1st visions, anachronisms, faith-promoting but ultimately untrue stories, corrupt leaders being chosen by power of "discernment", etc.). But in the end, she is still choosing to close her eyes and plug her ears to the reality of our situation.

I don't think I can do this much longer.
I am right there with you, maybe just a half a step ahead. Sorry you are dealing with this.

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Red Ryder
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Re: Mr. and Mrs. Græy's Stuff

Post by Red Ryder » Wed Apr 17, 2019 3:28 pm

What did you decide about the job?
Those who do not move do not notice their chains. —Rosa Luxemburg

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græy
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Re: Mr. and Mrs. Græy's Stuff

Post by græy » Thu Apr 18, 2019 2:48 pm

Hey Red, thanks for following up.

Long story short, my current employer re-upped their counter offer without me adding anything to the table. I essentially got a raise over their original counter which beat my new job offer, and a promotion to boot.

All in, it would cost us ~$800/month to leave at this point. So we stayed.

Your words of wisdom about planning my exit are very true. An upgraded home outside of our current ward boundaries is likely in our not-too-distant future.
I'm better than dirt... well most dirt. Not that fancy store bought stuff, I can't compete with that... full of nutrients and everything. -Moe Sizlack

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Red Ryder
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Re: Mr. and Mrs. Græy's Stuff

Post by Red Ryder » Thu Apr 18, 2019 4:13 pm

græy wrote:
Thu Apr 18, 2019 2:48 pm
Hey Red, thanks for following up.

Long story short, my current employer re-upped their counter offer without me adding anything to the table. I essentially got a raise over their original counter which beat my new job offer, and a promotion to boot.

All in, it would cost us ~$800/month to leave at this point. So we stayed.

Your words of wisdom about planning my exit are very true. An upgraded home outside of our current ward boundaries is likely in our not-too-distant future.
Congrats!
Those who do not move do not notice their chains. —Rosa Luxemburg

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