Nice Chat with SCMC Member Today

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jfro18
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Re: Nice Chat with SCMC Member Today

Post by jfro18 » Fri May 03, 2019 7:59 am

Not Buying It wrote:
Thu May 02, 2019 8:12 pm
If you’ve ever clicked a link to the LDS website from NOM, they know you got there from NOM. They also know your IP address, because you have connected to their website. I’m pretty sure they know who a lot of us are.

See https://www.quora.com/Can-a-website-I-v ... -came-from

If someone knows I’m wrong, please speak up, I’m no expert. But I’ve always assumed they know who a lot of us are. If it matters to you, better not trust me, find out for sure from someone who is an expert
They definitely could do this if you use LDS apps like LDS Tools where they can then map out your IP address to the posts here.

Of course if that were the case they'd likely have a file on DW because she uses those and yet I'm the one online posting stuff about the church, so that would be quite the flawed plan. :lol:

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Just This Guy
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Re: Nice Chat with SCMC Member Today

Post by Just This Guy » Fri May 03, 2019 8:32 am

I do wonder if LDS Inc does the actual monitoring themselves or if they contract it out?

If they did it in house, it would be the most cost effective way, but they run a high risk of anyone assigned to the job of monitoring things online will eventually have their testimony challenged which cold result in faith crisis and loosing said member.

If they contract it out, then some 3rd party who doesn't care about the doctrine just simply submits a report and they really have no concern about the actual topics that are discussed. It's more expansive to hire someone, but the members are insulated from someone loosing their faith.
"The story so far: In the beginning the Universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move." -- Douglas Adams

consiglieri
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Re: Nice Chat with SCMC Member Today

Post by consiglieri » Fri May 03, 2019 10:35 am

Hagoth wrote:
Thu May 02, 2019 5:40 pm
Hi, Kellan Hatch here, Sandy Willow Creek 7th Ward.

I'd like to ask you SCMC guys who are monitoring sites like this how long it takes before you start getting that OH SH!T! feeling in the pit of your stomach as you learn more about real church history and the origins of doctrines. I'm also very curious about your committee's attrition rate and whether or not the rumor is true that you are regularly rotated through a special mental health facility at the U of U medical center to set you back on track.

I highly recommend listening to all of RFM's podcasts and reading all of MormonThink.com. Tough job, guys, but I guess somebody's got to do it.

I know you can't post here, so please PM me. I gave you my name but I don't mind if you remain anonymous.

Thanks!
That was fantastic, Hagoth!

Also wanted you to know I got a phone call from my friend and former home teacher this morning.

He listened to the new podcast last night.

He was blown away! He had never heard of the SCMC before! Or the Pace Memo!

He said he has a lot to process.

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græy
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Re: Nice Chat with SCMC Member Today

Post by græy » Fri May 03, 2019 12:06 pm

Just This Guy wrote:
Fri May 03, 2019 8:32 am
I do wonder if LDS Inc does the actual monitoring themselves or if they contract it out?

If they did it in house, it would be the most cost effective way, but they run a high risk of anyone assigned to the job of monitoring things online will eventually have their testimony challenged which cold result in faith crisis and loosing said member.

If they contract it out, then some 3rd party who doesn't care about the doctrine just simply submits a report and they really have no concern about the actual topics that are discussed. It's more expansive to hire someone, but the members are insulated from someone loosing their faith.
Mary Snap's story (medium.com)
I'm better than dirt... well most dirt. Not that fancy store bought stuff, I can't compete with that... full of nutrients and everything. -Moe Sizlack

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jfro18
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Re: Nice Chat with SCMC Member Today

Post by jfro18 » Fri May 03, 2019 12:32 pm

Well that's interesting - the church does indeed hire out for help with the SCMC: https://www.linkedin.com/jobs/view/conf ... 124328323/

Thoughtful
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Re: Nice Chat with SCMC Member Today

Post by Thoughtful » Fri May 03, 2019 5:48 pm

jfro18 wrote:
Fri May 03, 2019 12:32 pm
Well that's interesting - the church does indeed hire out for help with the SCMC: https://www.linkedin.com/jobs/view/conf ... 124328323/
Must be temple worthy. I wonder how many shelves break.

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Just This Guy
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Re: Nice Chat with SCMC Member Today

Post by Just This Guy » Sat May 04, 2019 3:33 am

I listened to RFM's podcast about his conversation with the SCMC. A couple things stood out.

1. A teenager on R/exmo has a grandfather who is a GA and is able to not only get confirmation that the SCMC exists and that they do maintain a file on RFM, but he is able to secure an invitation for RFM to talk to a GA in person about that file. This sounds rather implausible to me on it's own.

2. Mr, Dyches seamed rather eager to confirm RFM's true identity. They state that they know what it is, but don't want to talk in detail unless they confirm it. While I understand Mr. Dyches position that he doesn't want to discuss sensitive info with someone if he cannot confirm it is in fact him; the way it was handled seams odd.

If all they needed to be able to have a in dept conversation was to confirm that RFM was the person the file is about, then I would think that RFM stating that he was intact RFM should be enough. No. They pushed to get a real name. To me, when you factor in the implausibility of #1, this sounds less like a coincidence, and more like a setup. Maybe that teen was a plant, maybe he was genuine and the SCMC saw it as a way to make a contact.

Mr. Dyches cames off as abnormally eager to find out RFM's true name. Figuring it out isn't that hard. He gives enough details that a a few minutes of googling can connect the dots. So why are they do eager to get RFM to admit to his name? Are they fishing for a confession? Is there some SCMC policy that they can't make a move without absolute proof of identity?

Maybe I'm just being paranoid, but LDS Inc is not an organization that is trustworthy. So when something sounds too good to be true, you wonder what the real story is.
"The story so far: In the beginning the Universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move." -- Douglas Adams

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2bizE
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Re: Nice Chat with SCMC Member Today

Post by 2bizE » Sat May 04, 2019 4:35 pm

consiglieri wrote:
Wed May 01, 2019 3:42 pm
I had a nice telephone chat with a member of the Strengthening Church Members Committee this morning.

The funny thing is he didn't call me. I called him.

Here is how it came about.

Early this morning I was contacted by Bill Reel advising me that there is a teenager (about 18) who listens to the podcast and frequents ex-Mormon Reddit, where he read a comment somebody had made about how RFM's neck is in the SCMC noose over the latest podcast, "President Nelson Jumps the Shark"; that the SCMC has files on dissident Mormons like RFM; that the SCMC surely had a file on RFM; and that disciplinary action would no doubt be shortly forthcoming.

This teenager is not the average teen. His grandfather is a General Authority Seventy. The teen talks to his grandfather about different issues relating to the church, and brought up this subject with him. (I am not using the name of the teen or his grandfather because I don't want to inadvertently doxx the kid.)

Anyway, the teen's grandfather Seventy said he knows another Seventy who does work on the SCMC named Elder Timothy J. Dyches, and the grandfather would check with him. After checking with Elder Dyches, the grandfather got back to his grandson to say that the grandfather Seventy had spoken with Elder Dyches, and that the SCMC does, in fact, have a file on Radio Free Mormon.

But the grandfather Seventy went further; he gave his grandson Elder Dyches's telephone number, told his grandson he could pass it along to Radio Free Mormon; and that Radio Free Mormon could give Elder Dyches a call to discuss the contents of his SCMC file; and that Elder Dyches would be expecting his call.

All of this information Bill Reel passed on to me at about 10:00 this morning.

Well, as you can imagine, it was all too much to resist, so I called the phone number provided of 801-240-3305. A very pleasant lady picked up on the other end and advised me I had reached the office of Elder Timothy J. Dyches, and asked how she could help me.

I told her I was calling for Elder Dyches and that he was expecting my call.

She asked for my name. I thought saying Radio Free Mormon would raise more questions than it would answer, so I just made up a name and told her it was "John Smith." (Yes, that is really the name I used.)

She asked what this was regarding. I told her it was a bit of an unusual situation, but it was my understanding that Elder Dyches serves on the Strengthening Church Members Committee, that he has a file on me, and that he is expecting my call to discuss the contents of my file.

This did not seem to surprise her in the least. The receptionist said she would check and put me on hold for about a minute, while I listened to some soothing classical music.

When the phone picked up again, it was the receptionist saying she was transferring me through to Elder Dyches.

Elder Dyches picked up the phone and identified himself. I told him I had used the name "John Smith" with his receptionist; that my name was not really "John Smith," but that I podcasted under the name Radio Free Mormon.

I told him that this was a bit of an awkward phone call, but that I had learned through a circuitous route that Elder Dyches serves on the Strengthening Church Members Committee, that he has a file on Radio Free Mormon, and that he might be expecting a call from me to discuss its contents.

Elder Dyches identified the name of the grandfather Seventy and mentioned the teenage grandson, so it seemed like the story checked out, and I told him that was exactly the circuitous route I had referring to.

Elder Dyches told me that he did not want me to use the contents of our conversation for any purpose whatsoever. I assured him I was not recording the call, because I live in a two-party consent state and I wasn't about to break the law. (We both chuckled over this.)

Elder Dyches said he usually would talk with people who came in person to his office as opposed to over the phone. I told him that was difficult considering I lived in another state. He understood the difficulty.

Elder Dyches confirmed that he does serve on the SCMC and that he does have a file on a member of the church whom he identifies as being Radio Free Mormon. He mentioned the member's full name to me and asked if I were that individual.

I told him I could not confirm nor deny whether I was that individual.

(We both had a good laugh over that one.)

Elder Dyches said he was not comfortable talking with me on the phone about the contents of my file unless I were willing to positively identify myself as the member he believes Radio Free Mormon to be.

I asked him that if his file is on Radio Free Mormon and I have identified myself as Radio Free Mormon, then why couldn't he talk with Radio Free Mormon about the contents of his file?

Elder Dyches reiterated that he wouldn't feel comfortable talking with me unless I positively identified myself as the member he believes Radio Free Mormon to be.

I told him that I guess that takes care of our conversation, then, and I thanked him for taking the time to accept my call and chat with me. I wished him a good day and he did the same to me.

________________________

A few thoughts:

1. Elder Dyches was very pleasant and cordial. We both shared laughs over the unusualness of the situation. He seemed genuinely sincere when he wished me a good day at the end of our conversation.

2. It is confirmed that Elder Dyches is a member of the Strengthening Church Members Committee. Strangely, his official church bio mentions his current positions, but SCMC is not among them.
Elder Timothy J. Dyches was sustained as a General Authority Seventy of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints on April 6, 2013. At the time of his call, he was serving in a ward Young Men presidency. He served as a member of the Europe Area Presidency from August 2013 to August 2016 and is currently serving at Church headquarters as an Assistant Executive Director in the Temple Department and chairman of the Restoration and Cancellation Committee.
https://www.lds.org/church/leader/timot ... s?lang=eng

3. There is definitely a file on Radio Free Mormon; less than surprising.

4. I am not terribly interested in knowing the contents of the Radio Free Mormon file at the SCMC, because I am the one who created it in the first place, and I expect it has an excerpted edition of RFM's greatest hits. I just hope the file is really, really big.

All the Best!

--RFM
Consig,
Do you know if the SCMC continues to collect info on people after they are no longer members?
~2bizE

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moksha
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Re: Nice Chat with SCMC Member Today

Post by moksha » Sat May 04, 2019 8:40 pm

Just This Guy wrote:
Sat May 04, 2019 3:33 am
Maybe I'm just being paranoid, but LDS Inc is not an organization that is trustworthy. So when something sounds too good to be true, you wonder what the real story is.
Do you think it was a scheme cooked up by a couple of lower level spies in the Church's Covert Intelligence Division?
Good faith does not require evidence, but it also does not turn a blind eye to that evidence. Otherwise, it becomes misplaced faith.
-- Moksha

Anon70
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Re: Nice Chat with SCMC Member Today

Post by Anon70 » Sat May 04, 2019 9:38 pm

I’ve been considering this topic all day as I “like” and comment on fb posts by people like Bill, Sam & Gina. Am I already a suspected apostate? I’m not sure how I feel about it.

I have made a few posts on “closed” feminists groups in my name too so I suppose if tattled on an overzealous bishop or SP could warn me to watch my step. Are these groups and sites considered a “group or individual whose teachings or practices are contrary to or oppose those accepted by the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints”?

I wish I was ready to out myself and get it over with.

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Palerider
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Re: Nice Chat with SCMC Member Today

Post by Palerider » Sat May 04, 2019 10:00 pm

After considering the SCMC issue today it just reminds me more and more of the Scientology cult.

One begins to realize you're really dealing with a group of paranoid, narcissistic geriatrics.

It doesn't matter anymore whether they are lying about what they truly believe or whether they're utterly brainwashed that what they're doing is God's will. The fact is, they are doing damage and they are very wrong in a number of ways.

God help us if they ever gain all of the power they seek. It will be ugly. 💀
"There is but one straight course, and that is to seek truth and pursue it steadily."

"Truth will ultimately prevail where there is pains to bring it to light."

George Washington

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Palerider
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Re: Nice Chat with SCMC Member Today

Post by Palerider » Sun May 05, 2019 6:56 am

consiglieri wrote:
Thu May 02, 2019 3:03 pm
The new podcast is up regarding the SCMC!

https://mormondiscussionpodcast.org/201 ... -the-lord/

I decided to call it, "Spying for the Lord."

Weird Alma was kind enough to let me use one of his songs to close with.

It is dynamite!

Looking at this title reminded me that in the last church handbook for Bishops that I read, it stated quite firmly that local leadership or members were NOT allowed to spy on or "stake out" other members to see if they were involved in sin. Which just goes to show how church leadership have always talked out of both sides of their mouths. "It's o.k. for us big guys but not for you peons."

Hypocrisy looms large in church leadership. :oops:
"There is but one straight course, and that is to seek truth and pursue it steadily."

"Truth will ultimately prevail where there is pains to bring it to light."

George Washington

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1smartdodog
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Re: Nice Chat with SCMC Member Today

Post by 1smartdodog » Sun May 05, 2019 11:37 am

When I think someone from the church is spying I wonder how being more than a week on here they could maintain belief.

I think of the old Soviet spies during the Cold War. Embedded in America where they could go get milk and eggs at the store whenever they wanted. The thought of going home to scarcity must have been troubling.

So in both cases it would take some kind of mental gymnastics or coercion to pick the organization over the reality in front of you.


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“Five percent of the people think; ten percent of the people think they think; and the other eighty-five percent would rather die than think.”
― Thomas A. Edison

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Palerider
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Re: Nice Chat with SCMC Member Today

Post by Palerider » Sun May 05, 2019 2:15 pm

Just doing some Biblical study of 1 Corinthians 13 today and looked at a number of different translations.

In defining "Charity" in verse five, almost 80% of the translations include the phrase that Charity doesn't keep track of wrongdoings.

From King James 2000 edition:

" (Charity) Does not behave itself rudely, seeks not her own, is not easily provoked, keeps no record of evil..."

NIV:

"It does not dishonor others, it is not self-seeking, it is not easily angered, it keeps no record of wrongs."

I just wonder how church leadership would rationalize their way around this? Would they use that lame excuse, "We're being as Charitable as we know how to be"....?

Maybe if they spent a little more time studying the Bible instead of each other's conference talks they would learn something?
"There is but one straight course, and that is to seek truth and pursue it steadily."

"Truth will ultimately prevail where there is pains to bring it to light."

George Washington

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Random
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Re: Nice Chat with SCMC Member Today

Post by Random » Mon May 13, 2019 7:12 pm

2bizE wrote:
Sat May 04, 2019 4:35 pm
Consig,
Do you know if the SCMC continues to collect info on people after they are no longer members?
I would doubt it. What would be the use of such info? (Unless they were using it to take down family members and friends.)
[They] which knew me from the beginning . . . would testify, that after the most straitest sect of our religion I lived a Pharisee.
Acts 26:5

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slavereeno
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Re: Nice Chat with SCMC Member Today

Post by slavereeno » Tue May 14, 2019 2:40 pm

Thoughtful wrote:
Fri May 03, 2019 5:48 pm
jfro18 wrote:
Fri May 03, 2019 12:32 pm
Well that's interesting - the church does indeed hire out for help with the SCMC: https://www.linkedin.com/jobs/view/conf ... 124328323/
Must be temple worthy. I wonder how many shelves break.
I am beginning to see that I have been caught up in the disbelieving narrative for so long that I have started to believe that everyone that discovers the real history of the church will eventually leave. :lol:

I don't try to guess the percentages anymore, but there are many more than I first suspected that can be exposed to all of it, read the CES Letter, whatever, and it doesn't shake their testimony at all. In fact, there are plenty that just retrench and it makes their effing "testimony" stronger. Its like any of the current movements that are driven by insanity: anti-vax, flat earth, other peoples religion, etc. People are so desperate to belong to something, they don't give a flying rats arse if its based in any kind of reality or not, they will gladly sacrifice their own children, if necessary, to get it.

I doubt the church has any problem filling positions on the SCMC staff with life-long, kool-aid drinking TBMs galore.

Thoughtful
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Re: Nice Chat with SCMC Member Today

Post by Thoughtful » Tue May 14, 2019 9:58 pm

slavereeno wrote:
Tue May 14, 2019 2:40 pm
Thoughtful wrote:
Fri May 03, 2019 5:48 pm
jfro18 wrote:
Fri May 03, 2019 12:32 pm
Well that's interesting - the church does indeed hire out for help with the SCMC: https://www.linkedin.com/jobs/view/conf ... 124328323/
Must be temple worthy. I wonder how many shelves break.
I am beginning to see that I have been caught up in the disbelieving narrative for so long that I have started to believe that everyone that discovers the real history of the church will eventually leave. :lol:

I don't try to guess the percentages anymore, but there are many more than I first suspected that can be exposed to all of it, read the CES Letter, whatever, and it doesn't shake their testimony at all. In fact, there are plenty that just retrench and it makes their effing "testimony" stronger. Its like any of the current movements that are driven by insanity: anti-vax, flat earth, other peoples religion, etc. People are so desperate to belong to something, they don't give a flying rats arse if its based in any kind of reality or not, they will gladly sacrifice their own children, if necessary, to get it.

I doubt the church has any problem filling positions on the SCMC staff with life-long, kool-aid drinking TBMs galore.
My brother is like that, he says "that's not what his testimony is based on", about everything.

The BOM
JS
Church history
Polygamy

I think it's actually based on his marriage continuing to work.

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Not Buying It
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Re: Nice Chat with SCMC Member Today

Post by Not Buying It » Wed May 15, 2019 5:16 am

Thoughtful wrote:
Tue May 14, 2019 9:58 pm
slavereeno wrote:
Tue May 14, 2019 2:40 pm
Thoughtful wrote:
Fri May 03, 2019 5:48 pm


Must be temple worthy. I wonder how many shelves break.
I am beginning to see that I have been caught up in the disbelieving narrative for so long that I have started to believe that everyone that discovers the real history of the church will eventually leave. :lol:

I don't try to guess the percentages anymore, but there are many more than I first suspected that can be exposed to all of it, read the CES Letter, whatever, and it doesn't shake their testimony at all. In fact, there are plenty that just retrench and it makes their effing "testimony" stronger. Its like any of the current movements that are driven by insanity: anti-vax, flat earth, other peoples religion, etc. People are so desperate to belong to something, they don't give a flying rats arse if its based in any kind of reality or not, they will gladly sacrifice their own children, if necessary, to get it.

I doubt the church has any problem filling positions on the SCMC staff with life-long, kool-aid drinking TBMs galore.
My brother is like that, he says "that's not what his testimony is based on", about everything.

The BOM
JS
Church history
Polygamy

I think it's actually based on his marriage continuing to work.

My wife is like that. After one intense discussion (the kind we don’t have anymore) her response to my concerns was “why does any of that matter?”. Well, of course it matters if the truth claims of the Church are important to you, but if all you are really looking for is a social group that gives you friends, along with promises of being with your family forever, maybe you don’t really care about the other stuff (although that also means you are willing to turn a blind eye to some really toxic and harmful things about the Church, which I personally am not comfortable with).

The Church isn’t about truth for some people. Some of them just want something that makes them feel good and gives them a social network. They’d be just as happy in another religion that meets their social needs.
"The truth is elegantly simple. The lie needs complex apologia. 4 simple words: Joe made it up. It answers everything with the perfect simplicity of Occam's Razor. Every convoluted excuse withers." - Some guy on Reddit called disposazelph

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græy
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Re: Nice Chat with SCMC Member Today

Post by græy » Wed May 15, 2019 8:01 am

Not Buying It wrote:
Wed May 15, 2019 5:16 am
Thoughtful wrote:
Tue May 14, 2019 9:58 pm
slavereeno wrote:
Tue May 14, 2019 2:40 pm
I don't try to guess the percentages anymore, but there are many more than I first suspected that can be exposed to all of it, read the CES Letter, whatever, and it doesn't shake their testimony at all. In fact, there are plenty that just retrench and it makes their effing "testimony" stronger. Its like any of the current movements that are driven by insanity: anti-vax, flat earth, other peoples religion, etc. People are so desperate to belong to something, they don't give a flying rats arse if its based in any kind of reality or not, they will gladly sacrifice their own children, if necessary, to get it.

I doubt the church has any problem filling positions on the SCMC staff with life-long, kool-aid drinking TBMs galore.
My brother is like that, he says "that's not what his testimony is based on", about everything.

The BOM
JS
Church history
Polygamy

I think it's actually based on his marriage continuing to work.

My wife is like that. After one intense discussion (the kind we don’t have anymore) her response to my concerns was “why does any of that matter?”. Well, of course it matters if the truth claims of the Church are important to you, but if all you are really looking for is a social group that gives you friends, along with promises of being with your family forever, maybe you don’t really care about the other stuff (although that also means you are willing to turn a blind eye to some really toxic and harmful things about the Church, which I personally am not comfortable with).

The Church isn’t about truth for some people. Some of them just want something that makes them feel good and gives them a social network. They’d be just as happy in another religion that meets their social needs.
Same experience with my wife. She asked why any of the church's history even matters today. As simple and as plainly as possible I explained that the church claims to be the "one true church." True. As in truth. This is about truth. If truth doesn't matter to you then I guess it doesn't matter, but the foundation of truth, the search for more truth... I guess that was what my testimony was based on. She just stared at me and then walked away.
I'm better than dirt... well most dirt. Not that fancy store bought stuff, I can't compete with that... full of nutrients and everything. -Moe Sizlack

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Corsair
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Re: Nice Chat with SCMC Member Today

Post by Corsair » Wed May 15, 2019 9:22 am

græy wrote:
Wed May 15, 2019 8:01 am
Same experience with my wife. She asked why any of the church's history even matters today. As simple and as plainly as possible I explained that the church claims to be the "one true church." True. As in truth. This is about truth. If truth doesn't matter to you then I guess it doesn't matter, but the foundation of truth, the search for more truth... I guess that was what my testimony was based on. She just stared at me and then walked away.
Being LDS simply good to a lot of people. Sure, they talk about testimony and living prophets and temple blessings. But it feels good to them and they only have a language that supports that feeling. They don't have the skepticism and critical inquiry to think any differently. But they might not be happier even if they did. Talking about the voluminous issues in the CES Letter is arguing all dielectic when the believer is really just working with rhetoric.

It's their tribe and their family and their social group. Moving to a new group is really difficult and they talk about testimony and evidences for the Book of Mormon instead of the truly painful process of being vulnerable in a new group where you have to admit that you were wrong about something for your whole life. And then you have to rebuild your basis of moral judgement and ability to have joy from the ground up within a universe of uncertainty. It's not fun and I don't blame them. I simply know what now makes sense to me and how I find joy in mortality. Few believers actually want to understand that.

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