What did you really learn from the temple ceremony?

[jfro18]

I learned that I had no idea what I was involved in. In all honesty, I didn't make any covenants that night. I'm sure I did everything I was told, but I was in such a state of shock that I just did what I was told. No prep, parents who were mostly cultural mormons who also had no idea what was going on, and older brother who thrived on watching me in shock... bad experience.

This sums me up pretty well... to make it all the worse we went with my in-laws for the first time (we did a civil marriage and this was our first time before doing the sealing later)...

Anyway I am just in complete shock at what I went through and we get to the celestial room and I just want to die thinking about what just happened. No one is talking really... then my mother-in-law comes up with this big smile and goes "Wasn't that amazing (or great?)?"

I just nodded and smiled... like how do you say that you felt you just went through a literal cult meeting and were touched just outside of your crotch by a super old dude.

That was without question the day I started the mental break from the church - I took temple prep class but nothing prepared me for that... it was awful.

[Red Ryder]

There’s a lot of sadness in this discussion thread.

As if we all expected this marvelous spiritual experience to happen to us and instead ended up with an Adam Sandler movie.

Does anyone feel like they want to go back?

I’ve been thinking over the last year about getting a recommend again just to attend with my wife. I think that would mean a lot to her but honestly I think I would probably just get mad half way through the session and start flipping over couches, chairs, and fake flowers in the celestial room before ripping all the robes and polyester pants off and running out the door screaming naked!

I’m still trying to figure out where these thoughts are coming from? Maybe the Holy Ghost?

I haven’t been in over 8 years.

[RubinHighlander]

I learned that I had no idea what I was involved in. In all honesty, I didn't make any covenants that night. I'm sure I did everything I was told, but I was in such a state of shock that I just did what I was told. No prep, parents who were mostly cultural mormons who also had no idea what was going on, and older brother who thrived on watching me in shock... bad experience.

Back in the early 80's there were no temple prep classes, at least not in my stake in MorDor. I got zip from my parents or anyone else, no idea what I was in for. Throw you into the deep end and hope you can swim! What a terrible shocking experience! I swear that old man touched my genitals with his little spoon full of oil and holy water. Then all the penalties, slitting throats, disembowelment and prayer circle chanting around an alter! WTF!? I was really shaken up, but like a trooper, I stuck with it because it was like my tribal initiation.

I made many trips to the temple throughout my 30+ yrs as a pass holder. I tried really hard to find meaning in it and learning things, but I never did find any answers on the quirky clothing. Those times when I think I was learning some meaning in some things I was just fooling myself. At that time I had no idea about all the mason crap that was borrowed, not until I went down the rabbit hole.

[Random]

Moksha, I can vividly see all of us sitting around in a hot tub, holding our drinks, and discussion philosophy. It sounds like my kind of temple.

Reading these posts made me think how nice it would be if the Celestial room also had massage chairs, hot tubs, steam baths, and served baklava with Vietnamese iced coffee. Sit around and discussing philosophy and movies with J. Golden Kimball, Stirling R. Socrates, and A. Woody Allen. That would make Temple attendance a treat.

[Random]

I've known for years that "arm to the square" was supposed to chase out devils, but made the temple connection watching the movie over and over. I was aided in the beggar aspect by one of Denver Snuffer's books or posts (I forget which), wherein he talks about approaching the Lord with an outstretched hand as a beggar would. Everything else came from my own pondering, thinking, trying to figure it out. I attended the temple a lot. So often, in fact, that I had the long keyword paragraph memorized (in fact, once, I knew it better than the person helping me). I think that helped.

I'm wondering if you came to these insights just through repetition of attending or did someone aid your understanding? It sounds as if you arrived at these perceptions on your own.

[Random]

Does anyone feel like they want to go back?

I saw one of the new movies a couple of times and another one once, and the third one not at all, so I'd really like to watch all three of them a few times. But as for the ceremonies? Not really.

[Random]

The temple prep classes are woefully inadequate.

Here's what I think should change:

Spell out exactly what you'll be promising.

Show the clothing. Explain when what is put on, and the changes (now, they don't change the robe to another shoulder, so I understand, but before I left, it was always left shoulder, then moved to the right).

Get rid of the promises of secrecy. It makes the temple look like a secret combination. You know, the ones the Book of Mormon warn against?

Teach the signs openly. Teach them to your kids.

Allow discussion anywhere! In the home, at churches, on the street, in parks. No one (or hardly anyone, since there may be those who do) knows the meaning of the symbolism because it is forbidden to talk about any of it. At Church: "Too sacred to talk about here or at home. Only talk about it in the temple." At the temple: "Don't talk here."

Don't get bent out of shape if you find out it came from the masons.


Also, to get inside a temple:
There should be an interview with a bishop. It should comprise of the following: Information, answering questions, and being told that there is no smoking, drinking, etc. in the temples. The sacredness of the temple could be stressed.

In other words, no worthiness interviews, though if a bishop really has a sense of discernment, he should be able to discern a molester or rapist, call them out on their sin, and tell them they'll pollute the temple if they attend. (Since it's the spirit of discernment, the bishop couldn't really do much else.)

[wtfluff]

Does anyone feel like they want to go back?

Go back? No. Desire. Whatsoever.

I have no use for a fake, contrived cult ritual with was only designed to hide the exploits of a sexual predator-conman-cult-leader and his cronies. It offers ZERO value whatsoever for the reality of life.

in fact, that I had the long keyword paragraph memorized (in fact, once, I knew it better than the person helping me).

I haven't been inside for well over 10 years, and I can still repeat that phrase at the drop of a hat. Someone typed it out as a joke a while back on some other message board, and I instantly picked out where they missed one word.

Ain't it great?... Just realizing that one of the "talents" Elohim blessed me with is having a fluffy brain that is really good at memorizing useless sh!t.

[moksha]

Teach the signs openly. Teach them to your kids.

Kids readily take to audio-visual learning. Perhaps this might help:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3BA3SO1sokA Skip to 1:24 if you are pressed for time.

[fetchface]

Does anyone feel like they want to go back?

Seriously? I would rather sit in a chair and stare at a wall for 2 hours. If I'm going to be bored I would prefer to be left to myself. I think that is one of the things that bothered me most about church. It was both boring and it demanded constant interaction.

[Just This Guy]

Does anyone feel like they want to go back?

Nope. If I really wanted to know something, I can just look it up on Youtube. Thank you, NewNameNoah!

[Random]

Kids readily take to audio-visual learning. Perhaps this might help:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3BA3SO1sokA Skip to 1:24 if you are pressed for time.

My kids are adults and I know at least one has looked up the temple ceremony.

I was actually speaking in context of being in the LDS Church, what they should be doing with faithful members, not an apostate like me. Lol

[moksha]

Kids readily take to audio-visual learning. Perhaps this might help:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3BA3SO1sokA Skip to 1:24 if you are pressed for time.

My kids are adults and I know at least one has looked up the temple ceremony.

I was actually speaking in context of being in the LDS Church, what they should be doing with faithful members, not an apostate like me. Lol

My misunderstanding, although that video clip is a helpful refresher for both adult members and potentially even apostates. Remember, the secret of the bees is not limited to just believers.

[alas]

Kids readily take to audio-visual learning. Perhaps this might help:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3BA3SO1sokA Skip to 1:24 if you are pressed for time.

My kids are adults and I know at least one has looked up the temple ceremony.

I was actually speaking in context of being in the LDS Church, what they should be doing with faithful members, not an apostate like me. Lol

Speaking of looking the temple ceremony up on line, my #2 daughter looked up the old printed version of the whole temple ceremony, clear back in the 90s, when she was about 19. She had always been totally TBM, the most religious of my three children, until she read through the temple ceremony. She asked me if it was accurate, and I knew it was. Talk about your instant apostate. Smart kid.

I think that is part of why the church wants to keep it so secret. If people actually have time to think it through, before they are gobsmacked by it during a high social pressure situation, they recognize just how cult like it is. If temple preparation really went through the promises, people would be horrified that you promise to give everything to the church organization and not to God. Women would have time to decide they don’t want to be given as property to their husbands and him not give himself to them. If I had been given even half of the information about what the endowment really was, I don’t think I would have agreed to marry in the temple. Because my reaction was so negative of this has NOTHING to do with Jesus of Nazareth.

My niece recently went through and was sealed to her hubby. She asked me if I could explain it. I didn’t want to get too deep in front of TBM DH, so I just said that I could explain it, but not in a faith confirming way and that if she wanted to stay in the church, she should talk to someone else. She said that she had already talked to her bishop, and his response was that he could see her issues and didn’t know how to address them. Yeah, she is now out of the church.

[Coop]

I realize that posting anything remotely faith promoting on this forum is a dangerous thing to do. But I'm old which means that I tend to do things that aren't that wise from time to time. I also enjoy visiting and find value in reading your comments, even if I don't agree most of the time. So if I offend anyone by what I say I apologize in advance. But before I answer the question let me offer my perspective on the Church.

I believe that the Church is in a state of apostasy and has been slowly going down hill since the time of Joseph Smith. Having said that I still think that there is value in the Church even if it isn't what a lot of TBM think it is. Of course like all things in life, if the Church get too bad then I reserve the right to revisit my decision to stay. And I respect all who have been associated with the Church and are on a different path because if my life reflected some of the stories I read I'm not so sure I would be where I am today in my relationship with the Church. So with that proviso let me offer my take on the question, "What did you really learn from the temple ceremony?"

As I have experienced the Temple over five decades one thing that stand out to me is the division between the live action and the film. What I learned from the live action is that for Adam and Eve to progress they needed to disobey God. While in the live action for us to progress we need to obey God. I love this inherent contradiction because for me life is full of contradictions. Some meaningful and some not so meaningful. And the Temple is full of contradictions. I find working out those contradictions is what makes the Temple meaningful in my life.

All the best,
Bob

[jfro18]

I realize that posting anything remotely faith promoting on this forum is a dangerous thing to do. But I'm old which means that I tend to do things that aren't that wise from time to time. I also enjoy visiting and find value in reading your comments, even if I don't agree most of the time. So if I offend anyone by what I say I apologize in advance. But before I answer the question let me offer my perspective on the Church.

Hi Bob,

First- thank you for posting this. My original post wasn't meant to be sarcastic or anything... I genuinely am trying to figure out what people learn from the temple because I just didn't really "learn" much beyond what we were already taught, and I know others who have felt the same.

Your perspective is a great one here and I hope you continue to post... we all need to have some give and take on these issues, and you seem to approach it from a pretty thoughtful space in this issue and I think everyone can benefit from that!

[wtfluff]

...

As I have experienced the Temple over five decades one thing that stand out to me is the division between the live action and the film. What I learned from the live action is that for Adam and Eve to progress they needed to disobey God. While in the live action for us to progress we need to obey God. I love this inherent contradiction because for me life is full of contradictions. Some meaningful and some not so meaningful. And the Temple is full of contradictions. I find working out those contradictions is what makes the Temple meaningful in my life.

All the best,
Bob

I can't think of anything you've ever posted that might be considered "offensive" in any way. Myself on the other hand... Yeah, I"m pretty sure I'm offensive, but I digress.

Honestly, your statement of "what you learned" from the temple is literally one of the most insightful things I've ever heard/read about learning from the temple.

[Exiled]

I went through the temple for the first time at 19, just before I left on my mission in the 80's. I went through with family and a friend who had just returned from his mission a few months earlier. Just before we went to have the initiatory, my friend pulled me aside and told me not to worry, that they weren't going to touch me down there, just that they were going to come close. He said one of our other friends almost backed out of going further because this friend thought the man performing the ceremony was going to touch him in the wrong place. However, he said not to worry and he was going to be there, right behind me and my dad would be to the side of me and nothing would happen. This was right before the initiatory .....

The man performing the initiatory was an older gentleman who had shaky hands. He started to perform the ceremony, trying to get through it as fast as possible, dipping his hand into water and then touching me in various places. My friend was right behind me and at the moment when the guy was supposedly blessing my loins or something, his shaky hand approached my area. I was praying "please don't slip up and touch me there, please don't...." Right at that time, my friend gripped my shoulders and held me in place. Shaky didn't slip up and I breathed a sigh of relief. My friend afterward commented how cool it was. I didn't think it was cool at all.

Then came the funky uniform that looked straight out of "beneath the planet of the apes," at least that is what I thought at the time.



Afterward, my mom came up to me at our home, in private, and wanted to know what I thought. She said I didn't need to worry about what I said, she just wanted to know what I thought. I said that during the ceremony, I thought we were in a cult and that this is why the temple isn't spoken of outside ....

I haven't done another initiatory since.

[blazerb]

I know I am in the minority, but there were times that I really enjoyed the temple. I think the rote recitation was comforting in a weird way. The sexism did not really register until I was most of the way out of the church. I am old enough that I went through the pre-1990 ceremony. Some of the more masonic elements were pretty messed up, but they barely bothered me. I saw them as symbolic. They were never meant to be real.

Once in the MTC, we were discussing some former members who were protesting outside a new temple in temple clothes. I think they even did some of the ceremony. A sister in our district said, "Well, you know what's going to happen to them!" She them mimicked some actions that older members of this group will know. I was surprised to think about what that meant. She took those penalties literally, but she expected them to be performed by God in some way.

I have found many other places that offer comfort that I used to find in the temple. I am sure that if I went back, I would be bothered more than I was, even though some of the worst parts have been changed or removed. I need my new peaceful places.

[Hagoth]

I've known for years that "arm to the square" was supposed to chase out devils, but made the temple connection watching the movie over and over. I was aided in the beggar aspect by one of Denver Snuffer's books or posts (I forget which), wherein he talks about approaching the Lord with an outstretched hand as a beggar would. Everything else came from my own pondering, thinking, trying to figure it out. I attended the temple a lot. So often, in fact, that I had the long keyword paragraph memorized (in fact, once, I knew it better than the person helping me). I think that helped.

I'm wondering if you came to these insights just through repetition of attending or did someone aid your understanding? It sounds as if you arrived at these perceptions on your own.

The arm movements always seemed to me like someone's attempts to mimic the poses of the characters in Egyptian art. ♪ Walk like an Egyptian ♪.