Shunning the shunners

Discussions about negotiating relationships between faithful LDS believers and the apostates who love them. This applies in particular to mixed-faith marriages, but relations with children, parents, siblings, friends, and ward members is very welcome.
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Palerider
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Re: Shunning the shunners

Post by Palerider » Sat Sep 07, 2019 7:14 pm

Thoughtful wrote:
Sat Sep 07, 2019 3:50 pm

He DECLINED!

It was a Christmas miracle.

He's run into them twice since around town and they barely acknowledged him with a greeting at the first, and completely ignored him at the second.
I think if your in-laws were to follow the counsel of the church they claim to believe in so fervently, they would treat him much differently.

The corporation is learning that the cold shoulder treatment only reinforces the apostates desire to stay away from the church. I think there may be the occasional member who jumps back in the boat that has run aground but the vast majority who leave do so permanently.
It's best not to offend them. They know too much.
"There is but one straight course, and that is to seek truth and pursue it steadily."

"Truth will ultimately prevail where there is pains to bring it to light."

George Washington

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Linked
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Re: Shunning the shunners

Post by Linked » Mon Sep 09, 2019 11:04 am

Thoughtful wrote:
Sat Sep 07, 2019 3:50 pm
Linked wrote:
Wed Sep 04, 2019 3:31 pm
Thoughtful wrote:
Mon Sep 02, 2019 9:35 am
My inlaws are trying to meet with Spouseman today. They have such a long history of control over him, I am praying to all the Gods that may be to give him strength to tell them where to stick it.
How did the meeting go?
He DECLINED!

It was a Christmas miracle.

He's run into them twice since around town and they barely acknowledged him with a greeting at the first, and completely ignored him at the second.
Hooray! That's awesome he is sticking with the plan you guys made Thoughtful! I hope he is doing ok with the missing portion of his life that his family filled. Those times he sees them are probably difficult on some level.
"I would write about life. Every person would be exactly as important as any other. All facts would also be given equal weightiness. Nothing would be left out. Let others bring order to chaos. I would bring chaos to order" - Kurt Vonnegut

Thoughtful
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Re: Shunning the shunners

Post by Thoughtful » Sun Sep 15, 2019 4:34 pm

Linked wrote:
Mon Sep 09, 2019 11:04 am
Thoughtful wrote:
Sat Sep 07, 2019 3:50 pm
Linked wrote:
Wed Sep 04, 2019 3:31 pm


How did the meeting go?
He DECLINED!

It was a Christmas miracle.

He's run into them twice since around town and they barely acknowledged him with a greeting at the first, and completely ignored him at the second.
Hooray! That's awesome he is sticking with the plan you guys made Thoughtful! I hope he is doing ok with the missing portion of his life that his family filled. Those times he sees them are probably difficult on some level.
Thanks. His sister moved away this week and did not call. That was hard. The feeling is that if he cuts off his -parents and dangerous siblings, he loses everyone. It's very painful.

Thoughtful
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Re: Shunning the shunners

Post by Thoughtful » Sat Sep 21, 2019 6:52 pm

Update:
Spouseman is sticking to his guns.

The monster inlaws have taken to sending flowers to my child, who recently had a medical emergency. I gave her the flowers sans card, and told her they must be from friends. I want to tell them to eff off because the last thing you child needs is a trigger. Child met with a psychiatrist on Thurs and was cleared to continue the supports we have in place, but its a delicate balance with a hard couple years.

I feel that their continuing to claim love for my child through gifts is an act of aggression when they have been told their affection is harmful and hurtful while they pay for and attempt to exonerate their pedophile son. The state laws don't appear to make a restraining order possible.

Can I have my attorney send a cease and desist letter?

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Random
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Re: Shunning the shunners

Post by Random » Tue Sep 24, 2019 4:31 pm

I'm glad he's sticking to his guns.

Any attorneys on here should be able to let you know.

I think there should be a law somewhere to protect your child, even though they are not the pedophile.
There are 2 Gods. One who created us. The other you created. The God you made up is just like you-thrives on flattery-makes you live in fear.

Believe in the God who created us. And the God you created should be abolished.
PK

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MoPag
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Re: Shunning the shunners

Post by MoPag » Mon Sep 30, 2019 12:30 pm

Thoughtful wrote:
Sat Sep 21, 2019 6:52 pm
Update:
Spouseman is sticking to his guns.
That is awesome!!!
Thoughtful wrote:
Sat Sep 21, 2019 6:52 pm
The monster inlaws have taken to sending flowers to my child, who recently had a medical emergency. I gave her the flowers sans card, and told her they must be from friends. I want to tell them to eff off because the last thing you child needs is a trigger. Child met with a psychiatrist on Thurs and was cleared to continue the supports we have in place, but its a delicate balance with a hard couple years.

I feel that their continuing to claim love for my child through gifts is an act of aggression when they have been told their affection is harmful and hurtful while they pay for and attempt to exonerate their pedophile son. The state laws don't appear to make a restraining order possible.
Ugh they are so sick!!! They probably do it because they know it will trigger you too.
Thoughtful wrote:
Sat Sep 21, 2019 6:52 pm
Can I have my attorney send a cease and desist letter?
It might depend on the state. I'm in Texas. I was able to get a temporary No Contact order against my ex. It included him and anyone affiliated with him (his siblings, mom and bishop.) They couldn't make any form of contact with me or my DD. It was really great!!!! It was such a load off of my mind. I hope you can get something like that too. They are only temporary though; at least in Texas.

((Big Hugs))
...walked eye-deep in hell
believing in old men’s lies...--Ezra Pound

Thoughtful
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Re: Shunning the shunners

Post by Thoughtful » Tue Oct 01, 2019 9:37 pm

MoPag wrote:
Mon Sep 30, 2019 12:30 pm
Thoughtful wrote:
Sat Sep 21, 2019 6:52 pm
Update:
Spouseman is sticking to his guns.
That is awesome!!!
Thoughtful wrote:
Sat Sep 21, 2019 6:52 pm
The monster inlaws have taken to sending flowers to my child, who recently had a medical emergency. I gave her the flowers sans card, and told her they must be from friends. I want to tell them to eff off because the last thing child needs is a trigger. Child met with a psychiatrist on Thurs and was cleared to continue the supports we have in place, but its a delicate balance with a hard couple years.

I feel that their continuing to claim love for my child through gifts is an act of aggression when they have been told their affection is harmful and hurtful while they pay for and attempt to exonerate their pedophile son. The state laws don't appear to make a restraining order possible.
Ugh they are so sick!!! They probably do it because they know it will trigger you too.
Thoughtful wrote:
Sat Sep 21, 2019 6:52 pm
Can I have my attorney send a cease and desist letter?
It might depend on the state. I'm in Texas. I was able to get a temporary No Contact order against my ex. It included him and anyone affiliated with him (his siblings, mom and bishop.) They couldn't make any form of contact with me or my DD. It was really great!!!! It was such a load off of my mind. I hope you can get something like that too. They are only temporary though; at least in Texas.

((Big Hugs))
I told them to stop emailing my children, they did. They started texting instead. We changed kiddos phone number. They started sending gifts to the house. They were told this is hurtful and unwelcome, they keep on. About every 2 weeks the instigate, sending something to the house or they try to make contact through spouseman, or they have one of their adult children try to contact us to tell us how mean we are, that we are lying about pedophile relative and that we are being unfair to keep our kids away from them.

I told spouseman, at this point, if they send things and they have been told it causes my child distress and triggers her depression and anxiety, I can only assume they are intentionally being aggressive. It is aggressive to continue doing something that you know causes harm.

I think, if I understand the law in my state, that I can only file a protective order against them if there's reasonable expectation of legal charges being filed shortly. That may come, but right now the DA is focusing on pedo before his accomplices.

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Newme
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Re: Shunning the shunners

Post by Newme » Wed Nov 06, 2019 5:44 pm

Thoughtful wrote:
Mon Jul 29, 2019 10:13 am
Has anyone here cut out family and willing to tell the tale?

...Tips and tricks?
It’s especially manipulative when there’s a mix of narcissism/BPD with cult mentality. They feel justified in whatever they do as long as they do the checklist the cult demands. And they feel justified shaming others just for not doing something on their deceptive checklist.

Even before my faith crisis, I had enough bad experiences with someone, that I put up boundaries. But I kept forgiving and letting her back in. I knew some bad things she’d done yet it was like I was still in denial - or wanted to believe her excuses. Finally, she crossed the line and I saw more clearly her bad intent for me. It was undeniable - and heart-breaking. Even after I confronted her and she apologized, she lied and back-stabbed again, so that was it. I told her, I love her but will do so from a distance.

When people continue to harm you or your loved ones, the only way to forgive (give” to go “for”ward) is to let go of people who hold you down. I still text her back, & went to a rare family reunion but that’s about it.

It’s most challenging to maintain boundaries mentally - to not spend thought and emotion that is wasted.

Reuben
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Re: Shunning the shunners

Post by Reuben » Wed Dec 25, 2019 8:03 pm

Thoughtful, how was Christmas? I expect it to have been difficult, especially if all that fun pathology ensured a lot of "family togetherness" time in the past.

This makes me worry about Spouseman:
Thoughtful wrote:
Mon Aug 12, 2019 3:22 pm
Yeah, signs point to FIL being a narcissist, MIL being borderline personality disordered, and their children largely acting out the roles children act out in dysfunctional systems: codependence, addiction, mental illness, suicide, forgiveness above safety, family unity above morality. Spouseman is so angry right now at what he learned about his father's behavior on Saturday I just don't think there's a way to come back from it.
I suspect Spouseman is dealing with loneliness and rejection by now as well as betrayal. Does he have a support network independent of his family, outside of your home? Does he have friends that he feels have his back? Does he have friends he can trust?

I know he has you, and that's awesome.

I hope he doesn't have too hard a job picking apart the knots his parents have tied his mind into.
You were born to trust, not fear. It is your birthright.

Thoughtful
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Re: Shunning the shunners

Post by Thoughtful » Fri Dec 27, 2019 2:01 pm

Reuben wrote:
Wed Dec 25, 2019 8:03 pm
Thoughtful, how was Christmas? I expect it to have been difficult, especially if all that fun pathology ensured a lot of "family togetherness" time in the past.

This makes me worry about Spouseman:
Thoughtful wrote:
Mon Aug 12, 2019 3:22 pm
Yeah, signs point to FIL being a narcissist, MIL being borderline personality disordered, and their children largely acting out the roles children act out in dysfunctional systems: codependence, addiction, mental illness, suicide, forgiveness above safety, family unity above morality. Spouseman is so angry right now at what he learned about his father's behavior on Saturday I just don't think there's a way to come back from it.
I suspect Spouseman is dealing with loneliness and rejection by now as well as betrayal. Does he have a support network independent of his family, outside of your home? Does he have friends that he feels have his back? Does he have friends he can trust?

I know he has you, and that's awesome.

I hope he doesn't have too hard a job picking apart the knots his parents have tied his mind into.
So some things have happened since I updated and as a result, Thanksgiving through mid December was really hard on him. His parents invited him over for a visit and it was clear that their motives were NOT preserving a relationship with him as much as the pretense of a relationship to get what they want, which is to leverage his brother out of jail and/or leverage a plea deal somehow. They played the victim, he called them on it, and pointed out the ways they have leveraged his other friendships and relationships against him, to shun him because they aren't getting what they want. Anyway, they gaslighted that of course they never would have done so, and within 24 hours people from church and community and family who haven't spoken to us in 6-18 months suddenly started approaching us in public, emailing, etc. He was rather shocked at how blatantly they are able to turn on and off other people's interactions with us. This was all rather infuriating, but also provided some clarity that the second guessing you do, was not needed--they are and have been doing what we thought. Since then he's cut off all interactions with them. They didn't acknowledge our kids at Christmas which was good in many ways and hurtful especially to my youngest at the same time. Spouseman was quite concerningly depressed for several weeks. But weekend before Christmas and he's been back to himself. He went out to play basketball with friends, connected with an old friend from high school and generally took over running Christmas because I've been very ill and we haven't been able to figure out why (as I type this realizing that my illness directly correlates with the timing of all this, so there's another pile of shit to deal with.) Anyway, my illness has meant we weren't able to travel and visit my family. I've encouraged him to talk with a couple of friends in our field who are qualified to give advice and aren't as angry as me. Meanwhile, taking it one day at a time...

Thank you so much for asking. It really means a lot.

Reuben
Posts: 1231
Joined: Sat Oct 28, 2017 3:01 pm

Re: Shunning the shunners

Post by Reuben » Fri Dec 27, 2019 3:17 pm

Thoughtful wrote:
Fri Dec 27, 2019 2:01 pm
Reuben wrote:
Wed Dec 25, 2019 8:03 pm
Thoughtful, how was Christmas? I expect it to have been difficult, especially if all that fun pathology ensured a lot of "family togetherness" time in the past.

This makes me worry about Spouseman:
Thoughtful wrote:
Mon Aug 12, 2019 3:22 pm
Yeah, signs point to FIL being a narcissist, MIL being borderline personality disordered, and their children largely acting out the roles children act out in dysfunctional systems: codependence, addiction, mental illness, suicide, forgiveness above safety, family unity above morality. Spouseman is so angry right now at what he learned about his father's behavior on Saturday I just don't think there's a way to come back from it.
I suspect Spouseman is dealing with loneliness and rejection by now as well as betrayal. Does he have a support network independent of his family, outside of your home? Does he have friends that he feels have his back? Does he have friends he can trust?

I know he has you, and that's awesome.

I hope he doesn't have too hard a job picking apart the knots his parents have tied his mind into.
So some things have happened since I updated and as a result, Thanksgiving through mid December was really hard on him. His parents invited him over for a visit and it was clear that their motives were NOT preserving a relationship with him as much as the pretense of a relationship to get what they want, which is to leverage his brother out of jail and/or leverage a plea deal somehow. They played the victim, he called them on it, and pointed out the ways they have leveraged his other friendships and relationships against him, to shun him because they aren't getting what they want. Anyway, they gaslighted that of course they never would have done so, and within 24 hours people from church and community and family who haven't spoken to us in 6-18 months suddenly started approaching us in public, emailing, etc. He was rather shocked at how blatantly they are able to turn on and off other people's interactions with us. This was all rather infuriating, but also provided some clarity that the second guessing you do, was not needed--they are and have been doing what we thought. Since then he's cut off all interactions with them. They didn't acknowledge our kids at Christmas which was good in many ways and hurtful especially to my youngest at the same time. Spouseman was quite concerningly depressed for several weeks. But weekend before Christmas and he's been back to himself. He went out to play basketball with friends, connected with an old friend from high school and generally took over running Christmas because I've been very ill and we haven't been able to figure out why (as I type this realizing that my illness directly correlates with the timing of all this, so there's another pile of shit to deal with.) Anyway, my illness has meant we weren't able to travel and visit my family. I've encouraged him to talk with a couple of friends in our field who are qualified to give advice and aren't as angry as me. Meanwhile, taking it one day at a time...

Thank you so much for asking. It really means a lot.
Just... wow. I don't even know. I want to say something to make things a little better, but all I've got is saying that I want to.

Good to hear about Spouseman reconnecting. I've come to realize that when narcissists and their yes-men have power over you, a critical part of staying sane and grounded is having good relationships with almost anyone else.

Speaking of which, how is your support network?

Hashimoto's has got to suck sometimes (if that's what's flared up). Here's something I've noticed about my rheumatoid arthritis: it seems more likely to flare up when I'm under a lot of stress. And when that happens, it's harder to deal with both the pain and the feeling of "meh" that come with the flare-up. Usually, when I wake up aching, I can say to it, "Hello, old friend," eventually roll out of bed, get some stimulants, and get moving. But when I'm under stress, that doesn't work as well.

If you need it, you have an autoimmune disorder buddy's permission to be graceful with Thoughtful.
You were born to trust, not fear. It is your birthright.

Thoughtful
Posts: 1090
Joined: Wed Apr 19, 2017 9:54 pm

Re: Shunning the shunners

Post by Thoughtful » Fri Dec 27, 2019 4:45 pm

Reuben wrote:
Fri Dec 27, 2019 3:17 pm
Thoughtful wrote:
Fri Dec 27, 2019 2:01 pm
Reuben wrote:
Wed Dec 25, 2019 8:03 pm
Thoughtful, how was Christmas? I expect it to have been difficult, especially if all that fun pathology ensured a lot of "family togetherness" time in the past.

This makes me worry about Spouseman:



I suspect Spouseman is dealing with loneliness and rejection by now as well as betrayal. Does he have a support network independent of his family, outside of your home? Does he have friends that he feels have his back? Does he have friends he can trust?

I know he has you, and that's awesome.

I hope he doesn't have too hard a job picking apart the knots his parents have tied his mind into.
So some things have happened since I updated and as a result, Thanksgiving through mid December was really hard on him. His parents invited him over for a visit and it was clear that their motives were NOT preserving a relationship with him as much as the pretense of a relationship to get what they want, which is to leverage his brother out of jail and/or leverage a plea deal somehow. They played the victim, he called them on it, and pointed out the ways they have leveraged his other friendships and relationships against him, to shun him because they aren't getting what they want. Anyway, they gaslighted that of course they never would have done so, and within 24 hours people from church and community and family who haven't spoken to us in 6-18 months suddenly started approaching us in public, emailing, etc. He was rather shocked at how blatantly they are able to turn on and off other people's interactions with us. This was all rather infuriating, but also provided some clarity that the second guessing you do, was not needed--they are and have been doing what we thought. Since then he's cut off all interactions with them. They didn't acknowledge our kids at Christmas which was good in many ways and hurtful especially to my youngest at the same time. Spouseman was quite concerningly depressed for several weeks. But weekend before Christmas and he's been back to himself. He went out to play basketball with friends, connected with an old friend from high school and generally took over running Christmas because I've been very ill and we haven't been able to figure out why (as I type this realizing that my illness directly correlates with the timing of all this, so there's another pile of shit to deal with.) Anyway, my illness has meant we weren't able to travel and visit my family. I've encouraged him to talk with a couple of friends in our field who are qualified to give advice and aren't as angry as me. Meanwhile, taking it one day at a time...

Thank you so much for asking. It really means a lot.
Just... wow. I don't even know. I want to say something to make things a little better, but all I've got is saying that I want to.

Good to hear about Spouseman reconnecting. I've come to realize that when narcissists and their yes-men have power over you, a critical part of staying sane and grounded is having good relationships with almost anyone else.

Speaking of which, how is your support network?

Hashimoto's has got to suck sometimes (if that's what's flared up). Here's something I've noticed about my rheumatoid arthritis: it seems more likely to flare up when I'm under a lot of stress. And when that happens, it's harder to deal with both the pain and the feeling of "meh" that come with the flare-up. Usually, when I wake up aching, I can say to it, "Hello, old friend," eventually roll out of bed, get some stimulants, and get moving. But when I'm under stress, that doesn't work as well.

If you need it, you have an autoimmune disorder buddy's permission to be graceful with Thoughtful.
Thanks! I suspect this is related to hashi's, or another AI issue altogether. Going back on AIP and working on resting....

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