What aspect of Mo’ism do you still hold dearly?

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Red Ryder
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What aspect of Mo’ism do you still hold dearly?

Post by Red Ryder » Mon Jun 29, 2020 3:38 pm

I asked Mackman in another thread what he still held onto from Mormonism. So to add balance around here I thought it might be nice to have a few positive thoughts as God knows this planet can use some positive vibes.

Here’s what I still hold onto:

The ability for a group to come together and jump in and get things done when needed. Not so much like when the Teton Dam broke, but more so like making a ward party happen with mi

nimal effort and budget.

Self reliance. Pretty straightforward so I won’t explain other than to say the church had a fairly good template minus the tithing first mantra.

Kindness. Mormons are known for being kind. Unless your doing business but that’s a different complaint.

Culture and heritage as FFM mentioned in the response to MackMan. I love knowing the culture and heritage of my ancestors and family even if now it drives me a little crazy.

Growing up and participating in scouts. I got to do a lot of fun things that my parents would have never done if we had to do them as a family. Thankful for the men who sacrificed their time so that a bunch of stinky kids could go camping, Canoeing, and tearing down outhouses at scout camp.

Obviously none of these are mutually exclusive to Mormonism but I still treasure the lessons learned which resulted from participation in the church.

What do you still hold onto or treasure?
Those who do not move do not notice their chains. —Rosa Luxemburg

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RubinHighlander
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Re: What aspect of Mo’ism do you still hold dearly?

Post by RubinHighlander » Mon Jun 29, 2020 4:19 pm

I don't miss any of the social events...

I can't think of a single thing that I miss about it now. As far a value, I can't seem to get over how much time and money I gave that corporation with no return on investment, only a huge loss. There are a couple of good service projects that really helped people, but I've since been able to be involved in more meaningful types of service that didn't come with all the dogmatic corporate BS attache to it.

There are times I have thought the food storage was an okay investment, but that will really only count if crap really hits the fan, which it could.

The one thing I am thankful for is the escape and how that really makes me appreciate the freedom I enjoy now; makes my Sunday's a lot sweeter every time I think about the fact I could be running on that treadmill or drive past that church.

All those past lessons, even if they were just about being nice or good, had the corporate BS attached, the consequences of points in heaven or hell. I don't find any value in them because of that. I have since found so much more value in being good and nice when they have nothing attached to them, no promise of consequence or reward.

Now, what I will admit to is this: I have no idea what kind of a person I would be today if I had not experienced 40+ years of my life in that religion and then escaped it; vs. a lifetime without it, all other things being equal.
“Sir,' I said to the universe, 'I exist.' 'That,' said the universe, 'creates no sense of obligation in me whatsoever.”
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Re: What aspect of Mo’ism do you still hold dearly?

Post by FiveFingerMnemonic » Mon Jun 29, 2020 5:14 pm

I think a lot about the circumstances of my ancestors leaving Europe for America in the 19th century and realize I wouldn't exist if it never happened. And while growing up in a fundy religion wasn't my choice I have to respect the hardy if gullible ancestors that made it possible for me to enjoy the beautiful rocky mountain enclave we live in.

Also, a few weeks back a large tree we had blew down into my neighbors yard. The ward helped me cut it up and take it away in a matter of hours. I realize that isn't unique in the world, but it is a benefit I can't deny.

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Ghost
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Re: What aspect of Mo’ism do you still hold dearly?

Post by Ghost » Mon Jun 29, 2020 6:09 pm

I'm always impressed with the responses to natural disasters. There's quick mobilization and significant expense that goes into those projects, on top of the volunteer labor. And I also appreciate the opportunity to jump in and provide meaningful service in those situations when I wouldn't know where to start if I were just looking to help on my own. Even the yellow shirt doesn't bother me the way it does some people.

I've always enjoyed reading about Mormonism. I would frequently read books on LDS history and doctrine before my faith transition began, and it was exciting to discover that there was a whole lot more to investigate right at about the time when the familiar things were getting stale. Exciting and traumatic at the same time. I don't read Mormon things voraciously anymore, but I still enjoy them.

Family, friends, and community. I've never lived anywhere that had a lot of Mormons so I've never had a lot of Mormon friends, but I value many of the the relationships I've formed through Mormonism. I hope I don't lose the ones I value if I ever become more open about my heterodoxy.

Camping and other outdoor activities for sure, some related to Boy Scouts and some simply church-organized. My ward holds an occasional Elder's Quorum camping trip and I like to go along for those.

I still see aspects of Mormonism as an essential to my identity. I don't feel inclined to fight that and I don't think I could if I tried. Nothing to do with the supernatural claims or even the organization much anymore, but some of the the principles and aspects of the culture. I even follow some of the arbitrary rules still because I don't see any reason why I shouldn't. I've modified the framework considerably but it's still the same framework I started with and I don't hold out hope that there's another one with different stories attached that are more "true."

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Re: What aspect of Mo’ism do you still hold dearly?

Post by wtfluff » Mon Jun 29, 2020 10:49 pm

Red Ryder wrote:
Mon Jun 29, 2020 3:38 pm
What do you still hold onto or treasure?
Can't think of anything at the moment off the to of my fluffy head, so I'll have to plagiarize stuff from other folks as the thread goes along.

Red Ryder wrote:
Mon Jun 29, 2020 3:38 pm
Culture and heritage as FFM mentioned in the response to MackMan. I love knowing the culture and heritage of my ancestors and family even if now it drives me a little crazy.
I have a hard time with this one. I only ever remember my family talking about one side of the family: You know all the (likely made up) mormon pioneer urban legends leading back to Nauvoo and before so I had bragging rights. Funny how my parents never mentioned the polygamous parts that make me a bit queasy eh?

I guess I should dig into the other side of the family. There's probably something to be proud of there... But there could be more stuff that makes me ill too. :roll:

Red Ryder wrote:
Mon Jun 29, 2020 3:38 pm
Growing up and participating in scouts. I got to do a lot of fun things that my parents would have never done if we had to do them as a family. Thankful for the men who sacrificed their time so that a bunch of stinky kids could go camping, Canoeing, and tearing down outhouses at scout camp.
I guess I have to admit that scouting was a good part of my growing up too. My leaders did a good job building service into it too. First, we go do "this" service project for a few hours, THEN we go water-skiing. Both parts ended up being enjoyable.

Again, nothing unique to mormonism.


Now, I wait and lurk, looking for more good stuff I got from mormonsim. Maybe it will help get me out of my anger phase a few minutes before I die, instead of after I'm dead.
Faith does not give you the answers, it just stops you asking the questions. -Frater Ravus

Keep the company of those who seek the truth - run from those who have found it -Václav Havel

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moksha
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Re: What aspect of Mo’ism do you still hold dearly?

Post by moksha » Tue Jun 30, 2020 6:06 am

Red Ryder wrote:
Mon Jun 29, 2020 3:38 pm
Kindness. Mormons are known for being kind.

What do you still hold onto or treasure?
I would pick this as number one. I greatly admire that quality. It is the stuff of the great commandment. It keeps Mormons from turning their political leanings into baser actions.
Good faith does not require evidence, but it also does not turn a blind eye to that evidence. Otherwise, it becomes misplaced faith.
-- Moksha

TestimonyLost2
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Re: What aspect of Mo’ism do you still hold dearly?

Post by TestimonyLost2 » Tue Jun 30, 2020 6:49 am

Certainty. I really miss the certainty that came with belief in the One. True. Church. Obviously it was certain belief in, well, something that turned out to be less than truth. But in the quiet, tough moments of life, I occasionally catch myself yearning for that absolute certainty.

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alas
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Re: What aspect of Mo’ism do you still hold dearly?

Post by alas » Tue Jun 30, 2020 1:50 pm

I saw this and thought about it. At first I thought I miss the community, but then I thought that any feeling of community was long gone before I stopped going. I would say I miss being the same faith as my husband, but really we started fighting over our different beliefs before we even got married, so we have had at least 49 years of disagreeing over religion and zero of actually agreeing. We just went to the same building to worship our different versions of Jesus. I miss some friends, but I moved away from all of them long ago while we were still active duty, so that’s been 30 years and I never made any friends once we retired from active duty in Utah. Utah Mormons are a bunch of fake, judgemental, self righteous, hypocrites.

Other people’s answers, well there are people just as kind who are not Mormon. “Certainty,“ well, I always had Major shelf items and never had what one could call a testimony of the church, so I never had any certainty. The most I ever managed was hope that the Jesus parts of it were true. Even quick mobilization in a disaster....well the military has them beat by miles. They had a much more responsible phone call list, unlike haphazard home teaching lists. They even had the Red Cross as back up notification during disaster. And believe me, you NEVER want a phone call from the Red Cross. It means someone you love back home is dead or not expected to live, or even that someone you served with was just killed and the commander knew you were close. After a hurricane in Florida, the Air Force had crews out all over the city helping to clean up before we even got the phone call from the church. “Sorry, my husband is already out with his AF unit and I am home with a sick child.” No, nothing there.

I honestly can’t come up with a thing I miss that wasn’t long gone before I stopped attending or an illusion to begin with.

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Fifi de la Vergne
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Re: What aspect of Mo’ism do you still hold dearly?

Post by Fifi de la Vergne » Tue Jun 30, 2020 2:31 pm

I joined when I was 21. I came from a dysfunctional family and was on a dangerously self-destructive path. As a Mormon I learned self-discipline, structure, emotional control. My children grew up being part of a community of people who loved and watched over them -- a village to help raise them, as it were. I never experienced anything remotely like that as a child.

I was an avid student of the New Testament and I think that had a lot to do with learning a better approach to life. Also, maybe some of it would have come just with maturity and life experiences away from my family -- at this remove it's impossible to know. I do think that being a convert I was able to take a lot of the positive from being a Mormon without the complications of family being all tangled up in it.

I think the church could be a much better force for good in the world if they would lose the "one true church and only path to exaltation/eternal families" narrative.
Joy is the emotional expression of the courageous Yes to one's own true being.

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Re: What aspect of Mo’ism do you still hold dearly?

Post by Mackman » Wed Jul 01, 2020 12:14 pm

Mormonism helps me to be the person I would like to hang around with despite very little of it being true !!!! I do love reading about church history .

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Re: What aspect of Mo’ism do you still hold dearly?

Post by hmb » Wed Jul 01, 2020 12:23 pm

wtfluff wrote:
Mon Jun 29, 2020 10:49 pm
Red Ryder wrote:
Mon Jun 29, 2020 3:38 pm
Growing up and participating in scouts. I got to do a lot of fun things that my parents would have never done if we had to do them as a family. Thankful for the men who sacrificed their time so that a bunch of stinky kids could go camping, Canoeing, and tearing down outhouses at scout camp.
I guess I have to admit that scouting was a good part of my growing up too. My leaders did a good job building service into it too. First, we go do "this" service project for a few hours, THEN we go water-skiing. Both parts ended up being enjoyable.

I know I've whined about this before, but try being a girl growing up in the church. Canoeing, water skiing, camping (other that Girls Camp), tearing down outhouses? HA! We did get to make diaries and sequenced Christmas ornaments though. Oh boy. Sorry, still bitter.

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wtfluff
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Re: What aspect of Mo’ism do you still hold dearly?

Post by wtfluff » Wed Jul 01, 2020 1:16 pm

hmb wrote:
Wed Jul 01, 2020 12:23 pm
I know I've whined about this before, but try being a girl growing up in the church. Canoeing, water skiing, camping (other that Girls Camp), tearing down outhouses? HA! We did get to make diaries and sequenced Christmas ornaments though. Oh boy. Sorry, still bitter.
No need to apologize. Your bitterness is definitely valid.

Sorry to strike a bit of a chord. :cry:
Faith does not give you the answers, it just stops you asking the questions. -Frater Ravus

Keep the company of those who seek the truth - run from those who have found it -Václav Havel

The Beauty of Gray

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Linked
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Re: What aspect of Mo’ism do you still hold dearly?

Post by Linked » Wed Jul 01, 2020 3:16 pm

Basketball - Until the virus hit I was in a church gym 3 mornings a week playing ball with a group that has been playing regularly for 30+ years.

Friendliness - I have a hard time with confrontation and the church teaches to avoid it and be friendly instead. This suits me. Probably because they taught it to me, but it suits me all the same.

Thoughtful discussions - My first thoughtful discussions were related to church stuff with church friends. I continue to enjoy them immensely. It's ironic because the institutional church seems anti-thoughtful discussions. But at the local and individual level I think church facilitates this.

Focus on Service - The local congregations I've participated in have had a decent focus on service. I still think selfless service is noble and worth focusing on and doing.

Focus on Family - It is largely lip service, but what they said sunk in for me. Taking my role as a father seriously is directly tied to what I learned at church.
"I would write about life. Every person would be exactly as important as any other. All facts would also be given equal weightiness. Nothing would be left out. Let others bring order to chaos. I would bring chaos to order" - Kurt Vonnegut

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2bizE
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Re: What aspect of Mo’ism do you still hold dearly?

Post by 2bizE » Thu Jul 02, 2020 7:28 am

Here are my top 10:
1) Interviews with bishop, SP, EQP, etc. especially when asked about my underwear.
2) Home teaching reporting: love telling them I didn’t do my HT.
3) White shirts: I just love them.
4) Cleaning church at 8am on Saturday: I’m a clean freak and just love cleaning.
5) Church farm assignments: I just love going to the church farm and mending fence, pulling weeds and thistles, and doing other volunteer labor for a multi billion dollar corporation.
6) Tithing- it’s important to separate yourself from your own money. The feeling is wonderful to give a ton of money to a corporation to develop malls and office buildings, and hoard the rest, with no expectation of anything in return.
7) Confidentiality: I really like how bishops keep things confidential and don’t call the police. If i were to commit a major crime, I could confess, feel better, and know that my bishop would have my back.
8) Attorneys: I really like how strong the church’s legal team is. They are like the CIA clean-up crew. They are masters of the cover-up.
9) Exclusivity: I like how exclusive the group is, as I don’t like groups that everyone can get in.
10) Leadership: good leadership is when your leaders make all of life’s choices for you, so you don’t have to spend time leaning from your own decisions.
~2bizE

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wtfluff
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Re: What aspect of Mo’ism do you still hold dearly?

Post by wtfluff » Thu Jul 02, 2020 8:51 am

And... 2bizE ends the thread.

Image
Faith does not give you the answers, it just stops you asking the questions. -Frater Ravus

Keep the company of those who seek the truth - run from those who have found it -Václav Havel

The Beauty of Gray

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Red Ryder
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Re: What aspect of Mo’ism do you still hold dearly?

Post by Red Ryder » Thu Jul 02, 2020 12:56 pm

wtfluff wrote:
Thu Jul 02, 2020 8:51 am
And... 2bizE ends the thread.
Love it 2biz..... hilarious.

Mormonism is the gift that keeps on taking!
Those who do not move do not notice their chains. —Rosa Luxemburg

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Hagoth
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Re: What aspect of Mo’ism do you still hold dearly?

Post by Hagoth » Thu Jul 02, 2020 3:14 pm

I no longer hold the hope of becoming a god dearly, but I do dearly hope I will become at least a gosh.

I love the idea of Families Are Forever at the very simplest, Sunbeam level. Move up to CTR thinking and it all goes down in flames. Most members seem to be able to keep it in a sustained Sunbeam holding pattern.
“The easy confidence with which I know another man's religion is folly teaches me to suspect that my own is also.” -Mark Twain

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Re: What aspect of Mo’ism do you still hold dearly?

Post by Wonderment » Fri Jul 03, 2020 2:01 am

2bizE wrote:
Thu Jul 02, 2020 7:28 am
Here are my top 10:
1) Interviews with bishop, SP, EQP, etc. especially when asked about my underwear.
2) Home teaching reporting: love telling them I didn’t do my HT.
3) White shirts: I just love them.
4) Cleaning church at 8am on Saturday: I’m a clean freak and just love cleaning.
5) Church farm assignments: I just love going to the church farm and mending fence, pulling weeds and thistles, and doing other volunteer labor for a multi billion dollar corporation.
6) Tithing- it’s important to separate yourself from your own money. The feeling is wonderful to give a ton of money to a corporation to develop malls and office buildings, and hoard the rest, with no expectation of anything in return.
7) Confidentiality: I really like how bishops keep things confidential and don’t call the police. If i were to commit a major crime, I could confess, feel better, and know that my bishop would have my back.
8) Attorneys: I really like how strong the church’s legal team is. They are like the CIA clean-up crew. They are masters of the cover-up.
9) Exclusivity: I like how exclusive the group is, as I don’t like groups that everyone can get in.
10) Leadership: good leadership is when your leaders make all of life’s choices for you, so you don’t have to spend time leaning from your own decisions.
2bizE FTW !! Also add: Acting as if you enjoy wearing scratchy, ill-fitting, uncomfortable garments, that constantly have to be pulled up, pulled down, tugged into place.
Also for us gals -- Wearing shapeless, baggy, ankle-length, wrist-length, extremely unflattering clothing that is supposed to be "modest" but actually makes us look like a prison matron from the 1950's.
Also - Having ward members ask us sweetly, "So when are you and your husband having your next child?" :roll:

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moksha
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Re: What aspect of Mo’ism do you still hold dearly?

Post by moksha » Fri Jul 03, 2020 2:08 am

alas wrote:
Tue Jun 30, 2020 1:50 pm
Other people’s answers, well there are people just as kind who are not Mormon.
Now you are getting technical. If I said Mormons like to drink a mixture of milk and Pepsi, could we just pretend that only Mormons do this while reserving the thought in the back of our minds that others also drink milk and Pepsi? No use stealing the thunder from Mormon beverage practices. When Mormons do it, it becomes the world's truest mixture of milk and Pepsi!
Good faith does not require evidence, but it also does not turn a blind eye to that evidence. Otherwise, it becomes misplaced faith.
-- Moksha

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alas
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Re: What aspect of Mo’ism do you still hold dearly?

Post by alas » Fri Jul 03, 2020 10:40 am

moksha wrote:
Fri Jul 03, 2020 2:08 am
alas wrote:
Tue Jun 30, 2020 1:50 pm
Other people’s answers, well there are people just as kind who are not Mormon.
Now you are getting technical. If I said Mormons like to drink a mixture of milk and Pepsi, could we just pretend that only Mormons do this while reserving the thought in the back of our minds that others also drink milk and Pepsi? No use stealing the thunder from Mormon beverage practices. When Mormons do it, it becomes the world's truest mixture of milk and Pepsi!
Yes, The “one true good people”. Sometimes I am surprised by people who think that Mormons are more honest, more kind, more giving than other people. Sometimes I think those people lack experience with anyone but Mormons and sometimes I think my own experience with Mormons is extremely bad.

But when Mormons are kind or do service, they often do it because they are Mormon. When Atheists are kind or do service, they do it because they are good human beings. There is a difference there. Sometimes when Mormons are kind, they are not kind but kind of manipulative. I have half a dozen or more friends or relatives who left the church because of someone’s fake kindness that lasted not one day longer than it took to get them ordained or to the temple. My sister in law is one who was so hurt when the kindness/friendship turned out to be an act and totally fake that 30 years later she is still bitter. She still believes the church is true, but she hates the people and would rather “go to hell“ than be around them.

So, Mormons can be kind, but they can also be judgmental, cruel, self righteous, homophobic, bigoted, racist....I can honestly say that some of the worst people I have ever known were Mormon, but I write that off to I have known a lot more Mormons than any other group, so the probability of the worst and the best being Mormon is actually pretty high.

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