Another blow to John Gee

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Hagoth
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Another blow to John Gee

Post by Hagoth » Wed Sep 09, 2020 1:27 pm

This guy is really having a bad month.

https://www.sltrib.com/religion/2020/09 ... to%20see.
“The easy confidence with which I know another man's religion is folly teaches me to suspect that my own is also.” -Mark Twain

Jesus: "The Kingdom of God is within you." The Buddha: "Be your own light."

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Linked
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Re: Another blow to John Gee

Post by Linked » Wed Sep 09, 2020 3:32 pm

These are small but telling examples, revealing the way Gee takes research out of context to suit his own narrative, all the while claiming that it’s other people who are pushing a narrative.
Apologetics in a nut shell.
"I would write about life. Every person would be exactly as important as any other. All facts would also be given equal weightiness. Nothing would be left out. Let others bring order to chaos. I would bring chaos to order" - Kurt Vonnegut

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jfro18
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Re: Another blow to John Gee

Post by jfro18 » Wed Sep 09, 2020 6:50 pm

Linked wrote:
Wed Sep 09, 2020 3:32 pm
These are small but telling examples, revealing the way Gee takes research out of context to suit his own narrative, all the while claiming that it’s other people who are pushing a narrative.
Apologetics in a nut shell.
What a great line... and this couldn't happen to a more deserving person.

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2bizE
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Re: Another blow to John Gee

Post by 2bizE » Thu Sep 10, 2020 6:47 am

I’ve read the article and agree with it. John Gee is nut bag.
What criteria does Deseret Book use for removing books from its shelves? If truth was a criteria, then its shelves would be fairly empty.
~2bizE

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Mormorrisey
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Re: Another blow to John Gee

Post by Mormorrisey » Thu Sep 10, 2020 10:07 am

I've been browsing and occasionally commenting on some faithful reddit boards, and it astounds me how much they defend John Gee and his work, and claim that Jana is "out to get him" and had a nefarious hand in getting his book pulled from Deseret Book and the BYU religious centre. Lest we forget, John started this whole shebang with his hit piece on Jana in the Interpreter:

https://journal.interpreterfoundation.o ... -evidence/

And then followed up that mess of a review with another drive by assault in his FairMormon podcast "By the Numbers." Which I won't post, because it's just awful. But I don't understand how John Gee can claim persecution by the academy, when he's the instigator of all his own problems. What's that old phrase, "hoisted by his own petard?" That's John Gee in a nutshell.
"And I don't need you...or, your homespun philosophies."
"And when you try to break my spirit, it won't work, because there's nothing left to break."

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Yobispo
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Re: Another blow to John Gee

Post by Yobispo » Thu Sep 10, 2020 10:22 am

Mormorrisey wrote:
Thu Sep 10, 2020 10:07 am
I've been browsing and occasionally commenting on some faithful reddit boards, and it astounds me how much they defend John Gee and his work, and claim that Jana is "out to get him" and had a nefarious hand in getting his book pulled from Deseret Book and the BYU religious centre. Lest we forget, John started this whole shebang with his hit piece on Jana in the Interpreter:

https://journal.interpreterfoundation.o ... -evidence/

And then followed up that mess of a review with another drive by assault in his FairMormon podcast "By the Numbers." Which I won't post, because it's just awful. But I don't understand how John Gee can claim persecution by the academy, when he's the instigator of all his own problems. What's that old phrase, "hoisted by his own petard?" That's John Gee in a nutshell.
All I had to read was the Abstract:
Abstract: Riess’s book surveying the beliefs and behaviors of younger members of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints was supposed to compare the attitudes of younger generations with those of older generations. Unfortunately, flaws in the design, execution, and analysis of the survey prevent it from being what it was supposed to be. Instead the book is Riess’s musings on how she would like the Church to change, supported by cherry-picked interviews and an occasional result from the survey. The book demonstrates confusion about basic sampling methods, a failure to understand the relevant literature pertaining to the sociology of religion, and potential breaches of professional ethics. Neither the survey results nor the interpretations can be used uncritically.

My bold added to highlight irony.

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Mormorrisey
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Re: Another blow to John Gee

Post by Mormorrisey » Sun Sep 13, 2020 7:15 am

Man, Dan Peterson has now entered the fray to support his buddy John Gee and his battle with secular heathens:

https://www.patheos.com/blogs/danpeters ... ained.html

Reading the comments, it's just hilarious - there's a troll that keeps asking Dan if he is "going to follow the Brethren" since Desert Book and BYU Religious Center have banned Gee's book and have FAIR stop selling it. Priceless.

But the comment of the day, week, month, who knows, belongs to Dan's favourite contributor, Lou Midgely, who has these words of warning for Jana Riess and her ilk, who he blames indirectly for having the book banned, and some shadowy secular deep Mormon state, rather than Gee's own shoddy research:

"I think I know more than I can say. Jana Riess is one rather obvious person. I will not speculate over others who may or may not have been involved in this very strange event. I don't think the event is over yet. If I am guessing correctly, if Saving Faith is eventually released even in a second edition, it will come as a crushing blow to those who sought to make it go away."

Are these guys for real? Do they not understand that most MEMBERS could care less about what John Gee, or even Jana Riess for that matter, have to say about any of these issues? That the scope of their audience runs into the tens? It's just nuts, the influence apologists think they have.
"And I don't need you...or, your homespun philosophies."
"And when you try to break my spirit, it won't work, because there's nothing left to break."

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A New Name
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Re: Another blow to John Gee

Post by A New Name » Mon Sep 14, 2020 9:33 am

Mormorrisey wrote:
Sun Sep 13, 2020 7:15 am


But the comment of the day, week, month, who knows, belongs to Dan's favorite contributor, Lou Midgely, who has these words of warning for Jana Riess and her ilk, who he blames indirectly for having the book banned, and some shadowy secular deep Mormon state, rather than Gee's own shoddy research:

"I think I know more than I can say. Jana Riess is one rather obvious person. I will not speculate over others who may or may not have been involved in this very strange event. I don't think the event is over yet. If I am guessing correctly, if Saving Faith is eventually released even in a second edition, it will come as a crushing blow to those who sought to make it go away."

Lou Midgely has been a jerk since the early 1990's, when he got one of the very first LDS message boards, called Mormon-L (a LISTSERV for you nerds), thrown off of the BYU servers because he kept loosing arguments.

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Linked
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Re: Another blow to John Gee

Post by Linked » Mon Sep 14, 2020 4:41 pm

Mormorrisey wrote:
Sun Sep 13, 2020 7:15 am
...Lou Midgely...:

"I think I know more than I can say. Jana Riess is one rather obvious person. I will not speculate over others who may or may not have been involved in this very strange event. I don't think the event is over yet. If I am guessing correctly, if Saving Faith is eventually released even in a second edition, it will come as a crushing blow to those who sought to make it go away."
This is beautiful.

Hint at insider info that you can't share, check. Attack the heathen enemy, check. Claim you aren't speaking for others as you speak for them, check. Hint at larger machinations in the works, check. Act like something inconsequential is actually really important, check.

I think it broke my BS meter.
"I would write about life. Every person would be exactly as important as any other. All facts would also be given equal weightiness. Nothing would be left out. Let others bring order to chaos. I would bring chaos to order" - Kurt Vonnegut

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Exiled
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Re: Another blow to John Gee

Post by Exiled » Tue Sep 15, 2020 10:39 pm

Mormorrisey wrote:
Sun Sep 13, 2020 7:15 am
Man, Dan Peterson has now entered the fray to support his buddy John Gee and his battle with secular heathens:

https://www.patheos.com/blogs/danpeters ... ained.html

Reading the comments, it's just hilarious - there's a troll that keeps asking Dan if he is "going to follow the Brethren" since Desert Book and BYU Religious Center have banned Gee's book and have FAIR stop selling it. Priceless.

But the comment of the day, week, month, who knows, belongs to Dan's favourite contributor, Lou Midgely, who has these words of warning for Jana Riess and her ilk, who he blames indirectly for having the book banned, and some shadowy secular deep Mormon state, rather than Gee's own shoddy research:

"I think I know more than I can say. Jana Riess is one rather obvious person. I will not speculate over others who may or may not have been involved in this very strange event. I don't think the event is over yet. If I am guessing correctly, if Saving Faith is eventually released even in a second edition, it will come as a crushing blow to those who sought to make it go away."

Are these guys for real? Do they not understand that most MEMBERS could care less about what John Gee, or even Jana Riess for that matter, have to say about any of these issues? That the scope of their audience runs into the tens? It's just nuts, the influence apologists think they have.
Reading what apologists like Midgely have written is what drove me out. He is completely clueless ... and a narcissist ... and very tone deaf ... and perhaps an unrepentant stalker for mormon jesus ...

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moksha
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Re: Another blow to John Gee

Post by moksha » Sat Sep 26, 2020 11:23 pm

If Dr. Gee had not treated the social sciences like the Book of Abraham, where he can cherry-pick information to reach unwarranted conclusions, perhaps his book would still be on the Deseret Books shelves. You can't bring Mopologetics to the mainstream and expect people to not call BS on it.
Good faith does not require evidence, but it also does not turn a blind eye to that evidence. Otherwise, it becomes misplaced faith.
-- Moksha

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