What are you doing to protect your family against the virus?

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wtfluff
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Re: What are you doing to protect your family against the virus?

Post by wtfluff » Mon Sep 07, 2020 11:19 pm

Hagoth wrote:
Mon Sep 07, 2020 8:23 am
But this is what would probably really happen:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cPcB3vWGO9k
Hmmm...

I wonder if the Virus Overlords would listen to a "Trusted TV Personality?"
Faith does not give you the answers, it just stops you asking the questions. -Frater Ravus

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Not Buying It
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Re: What are you doing to protect your family against the virus?

Post by Not Buying It » Tue Sep 08, 2020 5:25 am

FiveFingerMnemonic wrote:
Fri Sep 04, 2020 2:43 pm
Not Buying It wrote:
FiveFingerMnemonic wrote:
Fri Sep 04, 2020 11:24 am


You can't blame them for the existence of the virus but you can blame their government for its incompetence in letting it escape the lab where it was being researched and then covering up the seriousness of the situation. Hell even the chinese were pissed at their communist overlords for ignoring the pleadings of the young Wuhan doctor who died of the virus after trying to warn everyone. Eff the CCP!

And by the way, they continue to harvest organs from minority groups. Pure evil.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Organ_har ... s_in_China
Ummm...how sure are you about that idea that COVID-19 escaped a lab? I'm not sure there is scientific consensus on that point. I'd be interested in some sources on that claim.

Regardless, I'm not sure it is particularly fair of politicians in the U.S. to go on about China's incompetence in handling the virus given our own incompetence at the national level in dealing with it ourselves. There's no way to spin it, the federal government has done a completely incompetent job of addressing it. Hell, the Commander in Chief is still mocking people for wearing masks - that isn't just incompetence, that's harmful.

And yes, harvesting organs from minority groups is pure evil, I agree, but I am not sure how that relates to blame for the spread of the virus.
The fact that Wuhan the epicenter happens to be the home to China's premier virology lab. The claim isn't that the virus was designed or created artificially, we know it originates in bats naturally, but it is a fact that they have been studying these viruses ever since the original SARS there. Wet markets could be a source but have been cracked down on as illegal and the pangolin intermediate species theory has been debunked. And whether it came from the lab that is right in the epicenter or a wet market, either way the fault lies with those communist autocrats for their incompetence either way. And yes, making governments our "Gods" to rule over us no matter ours or someone else's type IS the problem. If I have learned anything from faith transition it is this. You can't trust any man made institution or leader. They will only let you down in the end.

https://www.independentsciencenews.org/ ... ab-origin/

And the organ harvesting is pertinent because it demonstrates that they don't care for human life and have no impetus for competence in handling deadly viruses.
Our national leaders haven't been any more competent than the "communist autocrats". Any criticism you can level at the Chinese government about how the virus has been handled - lack of transparency, inept response, you name it - applies equally well to the U.S. And blaming them for letting it escape from a lab isn't especially fair if we don't have any evidence that is what happened.

I don't get your point the government. I agree that we don't want the Government to be a "God" to rule over us, and it will let us down a lot of the time. I agree with both sentiments. But there are some things we can't handle as individual citizens. National defense is one of them, for example - gone are the days when we can all grab our muskets and chase the Redcoats out of town. We have to have a government to organize and support national defense. Pandemics are another - individual citizens lack the capacity and resources to organize a strategy for defeating a pandemic - we need a government to do that. Maybe we can't trust the government, but there are some functions private citizens are simply ill-equipped to handle, and worldwide pandemics are one of them. It was the government's responsibility to find a way to keep its population as safe as possible from the pandemic - I see no justification for a national government to say "well, helping to stop the spread of deadly diseases isn't really our responsibility". I don't care how libertarian a person is, everyone recognizes that the government must perform some functions that are beyond the reach of private citizens, and if trying to protect its citizens from deadly pandemics isn't one of them, I don't know what is. Our federal government blew this one - and its top leadership deserves some blame for it.
"The truth is elegantly simple. The lie needs complex apologia. 4 simple words: Joe made it up. It answers everything with the perfect simplicity of Occam's Razor. Every convoluted excuse withers." - Some guy on Reddit called disposazelph


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Re: What are you doing to protect your family against the virus?

Post by Hagoth » Tue Sep 08, 2020 7:52 am

oliblish wrote:
Mon Sep 07, 2020 10:05 pm
I find it ironic that you will tout numbers published by the CDC but will ignore the experts at the same CDC that explain what those numbers mean.
Mormons have a name for that. We call it apologetics.
“The easy confidence with which I know another man's religion is folly teaches me to suspect that my own is also.” -Mark Twain

Jesus: "The Kingdom of God is within you." The Buddha: "Be your own light."

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Re: What are you doing to protect your family against the virus?

Post by wtfluff » Tue Sep 08, 2020 10:59 am

Hagoth wrote:
Tue Sep 08, 2020 7:52 am
oliblish wrote:
Mon Sep 07, 2020 10:05 pm
I find it ironic that you will tout numbers published by the CDC but will ignore the experts at the same CDC that explain what those numbers mean.
Mormons have a name for that. We call it apologetics.
The Texas Sharpshooter Fallacy fits quite nicely here also.
Faith does not give you the answers, it just stops you asking the questions. -Frater Ravus

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Linked
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Re: What are you doing to protect your family against the virus?

Post by Linked » Tue Sep 08, 2020 2:19 pm

Newme wrote:
Sat Sep 05, 2020 4:52 pm
Linked wrote:
Thu Sep 03, 2020 12:32 pm
Newme, Your post is trolling and your position on the subject is an abject moral failing on your part and you should look in the mirror and make some changes...

What is your point here? That we should put less value on human life as a society? That the shut downs for COVID-19 and the stimulus package to support it in an attempt to save the lives and livelyhoods of Americans was a waste because more people have died before?

...Newme, your statement is false, and it encourages behavior that is going to get many more people unnecessarily killed. Co-morbidities are not unusual on a death certificate. You need to change.
Why engage in ad hominem attack if you’re so sure?
Why resort to trying to put me down? Does that help you feel better?

How many deaths have been caused because people were scared and didn’t get treatment when they needed it - due to unfounded paranoia??

How many people have lost jobs - not just in the US where they have resources to turn to, but in already poverty-stricken areas where they have no such resources?

This is why I don’t like coming on this forum, I’m disappointed. I come here unrealistically expecting people to see through BS, but same ol’. Why? I was thinking about possible reasons... I imagine how some TBM BPD family seem to operate. And maybe it’s similar to homosexuality becoming an issue on which to dictate how “loving” someone supposedly is. Both that & this covid BS are based on appeal to emotion & emotional reasoning.

A study suggested 70% of people are more concerned with others’ view of them than doing what’s right. This is why even otherwise intelligent people succumb to appeal to emotion nonsense. They’re not stupid - they know when bad is portrayed as good, & when lies are portrayed as truth - but what matters more to them is FEELING like others like them... So they join the herd, & may even lie to themselves which just makes them more knotted up inside. Then when someone dares present inconvenient facts, they freak out because deep down they know it’s true & it’s a reminder how they sold themselves out & other truth they’ve carefully avoided.

Correct me if I’m wrong. (As if I need to add that. ;) )
Newme, I was direct, and I can see how you would feel attacked, but I tried really hard to make sure that my post was aimed at the problem (not the person) and included a solution. Please note that I attacked your post as trolling, not you as a troll. I've seen many thoughtful posts from you and I hope to see more. But your posts on this topic, and particularly the post I referenced, are a problem. You can rest assured that this exchange has not made me feel any better.

There is much to discuss regarding the pandemic. Virus test methodology and effectiveness. Antibody test methodology and effectiveness. Government response at home and around the world. Government transparency at home and around the world. Mask efficacy. The worth of a human life. The worth of an older human life. The effectiveness of government economic response. The national debt. The way we handle the flu. Going to work sick. Even the death certificates and comorbidities.

But the 6% statistic is false and is used to support a false narrative that is killing people. This false narrative seems to make people blind to reality (It's weird that this exact statement is used by them too, about me). Your posts don't seem to be interested in discussing these items in good faith, but rather telling the sheep that they took the blue pill.

A friend of mine works at a nursing home. They had zero cases. Then they were required to test all the residents and found that they actually had over 20 cases, but those cases were pre-symptomatic or asymptomatic at the time. It ended up getting to over 50 cases, with a mortality rate just under 30%. This thing is real, and it is killing people. Believing that it isn't real will kill more people. We can even discuss whether that matters or not, but it is happening.
"I would write about life. Every person would be exactly as important as any other. All facts would also be given equal weightiness. Nothing would be left out. Let others bring order to chaos. I would bring chaos to order" - Kurt Vonnegut

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Jeffret
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Re: What are you doing to protect your family against the virus?

Post by Jeffret » Tue Sep 08, 2020 4:12 pm

Not Buying It wrote:
Tue Sep 08, 2020 5:25 am
But there are some things we can't handle as individual citizens. National defense is one of them, for example - gone are the days when we can all grab our muskets and chase the Redcoats out of town. We have to have a government to organize and support national defense.
FWIW, there was never really a time when that was the case. The well-regulated militias certainly helped in the Revolutionary War, but the war never would have been successful without the Continental Army, a national force.

It was kind of the case for the white colonists prior to their face-off with the British regulars. When faced with clashes from Native Americans, people could just grab their muskets to chase them out. But, that really doesn't count because they only had the muskets because of a well-organized national infrastructure -- it just happened to exist in England.
"Close your eyes, for your eyes will only tell the truth,
And the truth isn't what you want to see" (Charles Hart, "The Music of the Night")


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Re: What are you doing to protect your family against the virus?

Post by Fifi de la Vergne » Tue Sep 15, 2020 3:22 pm

FiveFingerMnemonic wrote:
Tue Sep 15, 2020 2:42 pm
I'm just going to leave this here:

https://zenodo.org/record/4028830
A quick Google search turned up a Newsweek article which led with the following:
Fact-check: Does a New Study Give Evidence that the Coronavirus Was Made In a Lab?

BY KASHMIRA GANDER ON 9/15/20 AT 5:09 PM EDT
SHARE
HEALTH CORONAVIRUS CONSPIRACY THEORY STEVE BANNON
Coronavirus Tube
The SARS-CoV-2, the coronavirus that causes COVID-19, was first detected in Wuhan, China late last year.

Scientists in a new paper make strong claims regarding evidence that the COVID-19 virus did not originate in nature—the prevailing theory—but instead was made in a lab. According to six leading experts in evolutionary biology and infectious disease consulted by Newsweek, the paper offers no new information, makes numerous unsubstantiated claims and its scientific case is weak.

"This pre-print report cannot be given any credibility in its current form," says Andrew Preston, an expert in microbial pathogenesis at the University of Bath in the U.K.


The paper, "Unusual Features of the SARS-CoV-2 Genome Suggesting Sophisticated Laboratory Modification Rather Than Natural Evolution and Delineation of Its Probable Synthetic Route," is authored by Dr. Li-Meng Yan and three colleagues affiliated with the Rule of Law Society, a group not known for its work on infectious disease. The Society was founded by Stephen K. Bannon, the former Trump advisor recently charged by the FBI for fraud, and Chinese businessman Guo Wengui, who fled China in 2014 on bribery and other charges.

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Re: What are you doing to protect your family against the virus?

Post by Red Ryder » Tue Sep 15, 2020 4:32 pm

Seems there is an outbreak at BYU.

An extended family member has tested positive.

Loss of taste and smell seems to be the only symptom so far. Rumor has it students are not taking it serious and still going out after testing positive. :shock:
Those who do not move do not notice their chains. —Rosa Luxemburg

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Re: What are you doing to protect your family against the virus?

Post by Linked » Tue Sep 15, 2020 4:33 pm

Fifi de la Vergne wrote:
Tue Sep 15, 2020 3:22 pm
FiveFingerMnemonic wrote:
Tue Sep 15, 2020 2:42 pm
I'm just going to leave this here:

https://zenodo.org/record/4028830
A quick Google search turned up a Newsweek article which led with the following:
Fact-check: Does a New Study Give Evidence that the Coronavirus Was Made In a Lab?

BY KASHMIRA GANDER ON 9/15/20 AT 5:09 PM EDT
SHARE
HEALTH CORONAVIRUS CONSPIRACY THEORY STEVE BANNON
Coronavirus Tube
The SARS-CoV-2, the coronavirus that causes COVID-19, was first detected in Wuhan, China late last year.

Scientists in a new paper make strong claims regarding evidence that the COVID-19 virus did not originate in nature—the prevailing theory—but instead was made in a lab. According to six leading experts in evolutionary biology and infectious disease consulted by Newsweek, the paper offers no new information, makes numerous unsubstantiated claims and its scientific case is weak.

"This pre-print report cannot be given any credibility in its current form," says Andrew Preston, an expert in microbial pathogenesis at the University of Bath in the U.K.


The paper, "Unusual Features of the SARS-CoV-2 Genome Suggesting Sophisticated Laboratory Modification Rather Than Natural Evolution and Delineation of Its Probable Synthetic Route," is authored by Dr. Li-Meng Yan and three colleagues affiliated with the Rule of Law Society, a group not known for its work on infectious disease. The Society was founded by Stephen K. Bannon, the former Trump advisor recently charged by the FBI for fraud, and Chinese businessman Guo Wengui, who fled China in 2014 on bribery and other charges.
Yikes.
"I would write about life. Every person would be exactly as important as any other. All facts would also be given equal weightiness. Nothing would be left out. Let others bring order to chaos. I would bring chaos to order" - Kurt Vonnegut

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Re: What are you doing to protect your family against the virus?

Post by alas » Tue Sep 15, 2020 6:22 pm

Linked wrote:
Tue Sep 15, 2020 4:33 pm
Fifi de la Vergne wrote:
Tue Sep 15, 2020 3:22 pm
FiveFingerMnemonic wrote:
Tue Sep 15, 2020 2:42 pm
I'm just going to leave this here:

https://zenodo.org/record/4028830
A quick Google search turned up a Newsweek article which led with the following:
Fact-check: Does a New Study Give Evidence that the Coronavirus Was Made In a Lab?

BY KASHMIRA GANDER ON 9/15/20 AT 5:09 PM EDT
SHARE
HEALTH CORONAVIRUS CONSPIRACY THEORY STEVE BANNON
Coronavirus Tube
The SARS-CoV-2, the coronavirus that causes COVID-19, was first detected in Wuhan, China late last year.

Scientists in a new paper make strong claims regarding evidence that the COVID-19 virus did not originate in nature—the prevailing theory—but instead was made in a lab. According to six leading experts in evolutionary biology and infectious disease consulted by Newsweek, the paper offers no new information, makes numerous unsubstantiated claims and its scientific case is weak.

"This pre-print report cannot be given any credibility in its current form," says Andrew Preston, an expert in microbial pathogenesis at the University of Bath in the U.K.


The paper, "Unusual Features of the SARS-CoV-2 Genome Suggesting Sophisticated Laboratory Modification Rather Than Natural Evolution and Delineation of Its Probable Synthetic Route," is authored by Dr. Li-Meng Yan and three colleagues affiliated with the Rule of Law Society, a group not known for its work on infectious disease. The Society was founded by Stephen K. Bannon, the former Trump advisor recently charged by the FBI for fraud, and Chinese businessman Guo Wengui, who fled China in 2014 on bribery and other charges.
Yikes.
I read another article debunking this new paper. It said Yan had zero evidence, just basically a claim with no proof. And it went through a bunch of over my head explanation I won’t even attempt to repeat of WHY experts claim it was evolved, rather than a synthetic creation. So, this is just more conspiracy theory put out by tRump supporter Bannon. I would give y’all a link, but I can’t do that on my iPad and it was one of those “have to be a paying member to read” anyway, so why waste my time finding it again when I can’t link to it anyway.

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Not Buying It
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Re: What are you doing to protect your family against the virus?

Post by Not Buying It » Wed Sep 16, 2020 9:54 am

alas wrote:
Tue Sep 15, 2020 6:22 pm
Linked wrote:
Tue Sep 15, 2020 4:33 pm
Fifi de la Vergne wrote:
Tue Sep 15, 2020 3:22 pm


A quick Google search turned up a Newsweek article which led with the following:

Yikes.
I read another article debunking this new paper. It said Yan had zero evidence, just basically a claim with no proof. And it went through a bunch of over my head explanation I won’t even attempt to repeat of WHY experts claim it was evolved, rather than a synthetic creation. So, this is just more conspiracy theory put out by tRump supporter Bannon. I would give y’all a link, but I can’t do that on my iPad and it was one of those “have to be a paying member to read” anyway, so why waste my time finding it again when I can’t link to it anyway.
Hmm...that wouldn't be the same Steve Bannon arrested for fraud after helping himself to money donated to "build the wall", would it? Now why is it that makes me question that article's credibility?
"The truth is elegantly simple. The lie needs complex apologia. 4 simple words: Joe made it up. It answers everything with the perfect simplicity of Occam's Razor. Every convoluted excuse withers." - Some guy on Reddit called disposazelph

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Re: What are you doing to protect your family against the virus?

Post by wtfluff » Fri Sep 18, 2020 1:29 pm

The Jello-Belt™ has set new records for positive COVID-19 infections for two days in a row now. Epicenter: Utah County, with BYU students being a huge contribution to the increase.

Stay Classy all you COVID-19 Positive BYU Students! Actually... Who cares if you stay classy; Just stay away from older folks and more vulnerable folks. You students will probably be just fine, and back to "normal" in a couple weeks. It's the other folks who you are might infect who might not do so well.
Faith does not give you the answers, it just stops you asking the questions. -Frater Ravus

Keep the company of those who seek the truth - run from those who have found it -Václav Havel

The Beauty of Gray

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Re: What are you doing to protect your family against the virus?

Post by moksha » Mon Sep 21, 2020 8:57 pm

moksha wrote:
Tue Jul 07, 2020 1:36 am
25,653 cases in Utah and about 3 million COVID-19 cases in the United States.
64,394 cases in Utah and 6,835,394 cases in the US. As they would say in Provo, "We're #1!"
Good faith does not require evidence, but it also does not turn a blind eye to that evidence. Otherwise, it becomes misplaced faith.
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Re: What are you doing to protect your family against the virus?

Post by moksha » Fri Sep 25, 2020 6:28 pm

With 1,411 new coronavirus cases reported on Friday, Utah set yet another new record for new infections in a single day.
Good faith does not require evidence, but it also does not turn a blind eye to that evidence. Otherwise, it becomes misplaced faith.
-- Moksha

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Hagoth
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Re: What are you doing to protect your family against the virus?

Post by Hagoth » Sat Sep 26, 2020 7:14 am

Well, it looks like my son has it.

He caught it on the plane while travelling back to San Francisco from visiting us or at a friends house at a stopover in Phoenix. He has a list of likely symptoms but the test kit they sent him didn't arrive or went to his old address.
“The easy confidence with which I know another man's religion is folly teaches me to suspect that my own is also.” -Mark Twain

Jesus: "The Kingdom of God is within you." The Buddha: "Be your own light."

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Re: What are you doing to protect your family against the virus?

Post by Mormorrisey » Sat Sep 26, 2020 10:40 am

Hagoth wrote:
Sat Sep 26, 2020 7:14 am
Well, it looks like my son has it.

He caught it on the plane while travelling back to San Francisco from visiting us or at a friends house at a stopover in Phoenix. He has a list of likely symptoms but the test kit they sent him didn't arrive or went to his old address.
Sorry to hear that, Hagoth. Here's hoping for a speedy recovery.
"And I don't need you...or, your homespun philosophies."
"And when you try to break my spirit, it won't work, because there's nothing left to break."

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Re: What are you doing to protect your family against the virus?

Post by moksha » Sat Sep 26, 2020 11:14 pm

FiveFingerMnemonic wrote:
Tue Sep 15, 2020 2:42 pm
I'm just going to leave this here:

https://zenodo.org/record/4028830
Ah, sponsored by the group run by Steve Bannon and that runaway Chinese felon who owned the yacht where Bannon was captured. Good thing they do not have some agenda.
Good faith does not require evidence, but it also does not turn a blind eye to that evidence. Otherwise, it becomes misplaced faith.
-- Moksha

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