Keeping up with Trump

Chat about a topic supported by books, TED Talks, podcasts, personal experience, philosophies of mankind mingled with humor (shout out to IOT), and maybe we’ll even do a google hangout or conference call once a month.
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moksha
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Re: Keeping up with Trump

Post by moksha » Tue Sep 08, 2020 8:12 am

I was listening to this Republican guy (former Chief of Staff at Homeland Security) say that the upcoming election is about the quality of character. That is why is against Trump and will vote for Biden. What he had to say about Trump was alarming and scary. Americans could be in for a rough ride after the election.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KuqhhrmhfCI
Good faith does not require evidence, but it also does not turn a blind eye to that evidence. Otherwise, it becomes misplaced faith.
-- Moksha

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moksha
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Re: Keeping up with Trump

Post by moksha » Thu Sep 24, 2020 11:52 pm

What happens if Trump loses and refuses to leave office?
Good faith does not require evidence, but it also does not turn a blind eye to that evidence. Otherwise, it becomes misplaced faith.
-- Moksha

Apologeticsislying
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Re: Keeping up with Trump

Post by Apologeticsislying » Mon Sep 28, 2020 6:47 pm

moksha wrote:
Thu Sep 24, 2020 11:52 pm
What happens if Trump loses and refuses to leave office?
The Secret Service will escort him out as an intruder. He can't stay, he doesn't have the military behind him and Congress and the Senate dang sure won't let him remain. Sure he can make a stink still, just not in and from the White House.
The same energy that emerges from the fountain of eternity into time, is the Holy Grail at the center of the universe of the inexhaustible vitality in each of our hearts. The Holy Grail, like the Kingdom of God, is within. -Joseph Campbell-

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SaidNobody
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Re: Keeping up with Trump

Post by SaidNobody » Wed Sep 30, 2020 9:35 am

moksha wrote:
Thu Sep 24, 2020 11:52 pm
What happens if Trump loses and refuses to leave office?
Just like from the beginning, people have to accept it or look like traitors. Winning elections gives him the right to occupy the office. Just like before, some people will have to get over it. Many of the left have defiled the idea of the "vote" by refusing to accept that he, thus his entire party, won.

I think he will leave when it is his time, but the fact that many never acknowledged him as the rightful president makes me want to return the favor. Just depends on if America is dead or not.

Reuben
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Re: Keeping up with Trump

Post by Reuben » Wed Sep 30, 2020 6:25 pm

Some folks have been researching the possible "President Trump won't step down" scenarios: https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/wh ... ont-leave/
Learn to doubt the stories you tell about yourselves and your adversaries.

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moksha
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Re: Keeping up with Trump

Post by moksha » Sun Oct 04, 2020 5:04 am

Dallin Oaks wrote:“We live in a time of anger and hatred in political relationships and policies. We felt it this summer where some went beyond peaceful protests and engaged in destructive behavior,” he said. “We feel it in some current campaigns for public offices. Some of this has even spilled over into political statements and unkind references in our church meetings.”
I think this was Oak's way of reminding members to quit being "Buttheads for Trump". Also, he wanted the members of the Sanpete and Wayne County Militias to stay out of the armory supplies in their compounds if Trump loses the election and not rampage through the streets of Provo.
Good faith does not require evidence, but it also does not turn a blind eye to that evidence. Otherwise, it becomes misplaced faith.
-- Moksha

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moksha
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Re: Keeping up with Trump

Post by moksha » Sun Oct 18, 2020 12:02 am

Image

Is this cosmic level irony?
Good faith does not require evidence, but it also does not turn a blind eye to that evidence. Otherwise, it becomes misplaced faith.
-- Moksha

Thoughtful
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Re: Keeping up with Trump

Post by Thoughtful » Sun Oct 18, 2020 7:49 am

Interestingly, BYUs Frank Fox the creator of American Heritage 100 gen ed class that is basically republican indoctrination, and who is a self proclaimed conservative republican is coming out with videos and posts on why Trump's actions are reminiscent of dictators and very problematic for a democracy.

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alas
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Re: Keeping up with Trump

Post by alas » Sun Oct 18, 2020 6:58 pm

SaidNobody wrote:
Wed Sep 30, 2020 9:35 am
moksha wrote:
Thu Sep 24, 2020 11:52 pm
What happens if Trump loses and refuses to leave office?
Just like from the beginning, people have to accept it or look like traitors. Winning elections gives him the right to occupy the office. Just like before, some people will have to get over it. Many of the left have defiled the idea of the "vote" by refusing to accept that he, thus his entire party, won.

I think he will leave when it is his time, but the fact that many never acknowledged him as the rightful president makes me want to return the favor. Just depends on if America is dead or not.
Oh, the Democrats did acknowledge him as the rightful president, but they recognized right from the start that he was corrupt, a rapist, and a wanna be dictator, so yeah they tried to get the a**hat out of office right from the beginning of January 2017. But there is BIG difference between recognizing him as duly elected and wishing it wasn’t so, maybe if the republicans had the morals of a snake.

And to think I USED to vote republican. Never again. If republicans can elect him, then “not my party.“

And I think he isn’t kidding about leaving the country if he loses. He is going to make a run for it before he gets arrested. It “embarrassment” at all, but him knowing there Is a case against him in NY.

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SaidNobody
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Re: Keeping up with Trump

Post by SaidNobody » Sun Oct 18, 2020 9:04 pm

alas wrote:
Sun Oct 18, 2020 6:58 pm

Oh, the Democrats did acknowledge him as the rightful president, but they recognized right from the start that he was corrupt, a rapist, and a wanna be dictator, so yeah they tried to get the a**hat out of office right from the beginning of January 2017. But there is BIG difference between recognizing him as duly elected and wishing it wasn’t so, maybe if the republicans had the morals of a snake.

And to think I USED to vote republican. Never again. If republicans can elect him, then “not my party.“

And I think he isn’t kidding about leaving the country if he loses. He is going to make a run for it before he gets arrested. It “embarrassment” at all, but him knowing there Is a case against him in NY.
It's amazing to me how "divergent" we can be on what is true. Like right now, Republicans are working through Hunter's laptop and one of his partners 26000 emails to prove that Trump was right, that Biden was selling favors as Vice-President. It's believable to me. I met Biden on the Clubhouse floor of the Ritz-Carlton in DC, fall of 2007. I was there for an FDA conference, and by some comedy of errors, ended up in the Clubhouse of the Ritz. Free drinks, snacks, hors d'oeuvres, and a waiter that bowed when you asked for something.

I was sitting in the lobby exercising my limited Arabic language skills, listening to a young shek and his friends, when Joe Biden showed up. He beginning talking about some deal, a "bridge to French, for $400M" or something. It sounded very much like something our government wouldn't have been involved in, and then when it started to sound shady, he invited them back to his suite. I intentionally never forgot, and when he because vice-president a year later, I had zero trust of him.

But I hear this all the time about Trump. But what crimes? What does NYC have against him? NYC has always hated Trump because he has always been able to get his way. He built TV Land and restored many of their ruined areas.

But like with the impeachment, they said they had a crime, but they couldn't put it in words. Now, evidence that he was right about Biden and Ukraine is coming out.

But, rape? Dictator? Corrupt? He is completely open about this work, gives his check to non-profit or government groups. He promotes freedom of speech, 2nd Amendment, allows people to lie about him, attack him, and frustrate him without breaking his boundaries.

I like Trump.
Last edited by SaidNobody on Tue Nov 10, 2020 5:07 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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moksha
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Re: Keeping up with Trump

Post by moksha » Mon Oct 19, 2020 3:25 am

Republicans come loaded with stories manufactured in Russia. Americans can listen to the horrors that Trump has tweeted, admitted to in news interviews, or from genuine investigative reporting by American reporters. None of that unslick disinformation from foreign governments wanting to preserve their Kremlin Candidate.
Good faith does not require evidence, but it also does not turn a blind eye to that evidence. Otherwise, it becomes misplaced faith.
-- Moksha

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SaidNobody
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Re: Keeping up with Trump

Post by SaidNobody » Mon Oct 19, 2020 6:50 am

moksha wrote:
Mon Oct 19, 2020 3:25 am
Republicans come loaded with stories manufactured in Russia. Americans can listen to the horrors that Trump has tweeted, admitted to in news interviews, or from genuine investigative reporting by American reporters. None of that unslick disinformation from foreign governments wanting to preserve their Kremlin Candidate.
I hear what you are saying, but it's probably not what you meant to say.

I hear, "I don't like Trump. I never have. So when someone gave me a reason to reject him I jumped on it."

The evidence against Trump is so tainted, I would touch it with a hazmat suite. The FBI was caught, (actually caught) fabricating evidence against the Trump administration. They "intentionally" trapped Gen. Flynn. As it turns out, Gen Flynn was the rare Generals that Obama didn't like as Flynn sometimes out against times he didn't like.

Anyway, the EVIDENCE, I mean actual evidence that we are using Russian stories are the stories the Dems are using, and ironically, they aren't even sponsored by Russia. The Russian Dossier was created by a British agent, and brought, paid for, and distributed by the FBI and Hillary campaign.

It's a little sad though. I think Trump will win and Left will lose their minds, like they do at every chance they get.

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SaidNobody
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Re: Keeping up with Trump

Post by SaidNobody » Mon Oct 19, 2020 12:16 pm

SaidNobody wrote:
Mon Oct 19, 2020 6:50 am
moksha wrote:
Mon Oct 19, 2020 3:25 am
Republicans come loaded with stories manufactured in Russia. Americans can listen to the horrors that Trump has tweeted, admitted to in news interviews, or from genuine investigative reporting by American reporters. None of that unslick disinformation from foreign governments wanting to preserve their Kremlin Candidate.
I hear what you are saying, but it's probably not what you meant to say.

I hear, "I don't like Trump. I never have. So when someone gave me a reason to reject him I jumped on it."

The evidence against Trump is so tainted, I would touch it with a hazmat suite. The FBI was caught, (actually caught) fabricating evidence against the Trump administration. They "intentionally" trapped Gen. Flynn. As it turns out, Gen Flynn was the rare General that Obama didn't like as Flynn sometimes spoke out against him at times.

Anyway, the EVIDENCE, I mean actual evidence that we are using Russian stories are the stories the Dems are using, and ironically, they aren't even sponsored by Russia. The Russian Dossier was created by a British agent, and brought, paid for, and distributed by the FBI and Hillary campaign.

It's a little sad though. I think Trump will win and the Left will lose their minds like they do at every chance they get.

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SaidNobody
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Re: Keeping up with Trump

Post by SaidNobody » Mon Oct 19, 2020 12:27 pm

As a rabid Trump supporter, I've often wondered, sometimes aloud:

Given all of the "crimes" that Trump has been accused of, how do you reconcile all of the violence, in the name of peace and justice that the Left and Radical Left have supported? Or the attacks on conservative women at the "Women March?" Or attacks on people marching for Free Speech? Or the cornering and beating of conservative gays, or Big Tech silencing conservative speakers, or the colleges that attack and suppress conservative speakers, or attempt of Congress to impeach a president under false pretenses, or more than 4 million people "liking" Trumps announcement that he had Covid-19.

I guess I'm asking, how do you reconcile the claim for Moral High Ground?

It is a sort of NOM related issue because I see this sort of thing on both sides. Both sides claiming to have the moral ground while they speak hate and angry about those that they disagree with.

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Hagoth
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Re: Keeping up with Trump

Post by Hagoth » Tue Oct 20, 2020 4:48 pm

Yeah, he's a great guy and a real straight-shooter: https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/201 ... -lies.html
“The easy confidence with which I know another man's religion is folly teaches me to suspect that my own is also.” -Mark Twain

Jesus: "The Kingdom of God is within you." The Buddha: "Be your own light."

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Hagoth
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Re: Keeping up with Trump

Post by Hagoth » Tue Oct 20, 2020 5:32 pm

We are all entitled to our opinions, and from what I have observed Trump is a total piece of sh*t and I think there is an overwhelming mountain of evidence to support that opinion. I don't necessarily blame him, though. He is what he is. Who I do blame are the enablers. The people who elected a reality TV show host to run their country, who sells important administration positions to the highest bidder or gives them as personal favors to wedding planners and dog breeders, often with the intent of actually damaging the organization they are supposed to be running. Say what you want about him, but he is a narcissistic, sociopathic thug by any standard of measure.

But the people I really blame are the senators and congressman, the attorney general, etc. who handed over their genitals to him and grabbed their ankles and more or less abandoned a huge percentage of the people they are supposed to represent. I am especially disgusted with those who hold themselves up as good, Jesus-loving Christians, like our beloved Vice President. who would grind a Democratic colleague to pieces for doing 100th of the crap Trump pulls, but choose to look the other way in his case. I'm talking about the McConnells and the Grahams and the Cruzes. You know, the hypocrites who take oaths to serve as impartial jurors and then proudly proclaim themselves NOT impartial when it comes to kissing presidential ass. The ones who deny they are acting in their self interest, saying "use my words against me," and then turn around and to the exact opposite when THAT is conveniently in their self interests. Anyone who is ok with that kind of hypocrisy has some serious soul-searching to do, in my opinion. Look at the stuff they ignore about Trump's behavior and then remind yourself, for comparison, how quickly the Democrats booted Al Franken for making "air boobs" in a photograph.

Like I said, everyone is entitled to their opinion. I try to bite my tongue, so after this outburst I'll just let it stand at that.
“The easy confidence with which I know another man's religion is folly teaches me to suspect that my own is also.” -Mark Twain

Jesus: "The Kingdom of God is within you." The Buddha: "Be your own light."

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moksha
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Re: Keeping up with Trump

Post by moksha » Tue Oct 20, 2020 9:33 pm

Forbes Business Magazine tallies 23.3 lies per day for Trump, but that was in May, and all those who follow current events know that there has been a big uptick in the number of lies being told by Trump recently.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/davidmarko ... dc17991e17
Good faith does not require evidence, but it also does not turn a blind eye to that evidence. Otherwise, it becomes misplaced faith.
-- Moksha

Reuben
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Re: Keeping up with Trump

Post by Reuben » Wed Oct 21, 2020 7:14 pm

Hagoth wrote:
Tue Oct 20, 2020 5:32 pm
We are all entitled to our opinions, and from what I have observed Trump is a total piece of sh*t and I think there is an overwhelming mountain of evidence to support that opinion. I don't necessarily blame him, though. He is what he is. Who I do blame are the enablers. The people who elected a reality TV show host to run their country, who sells important administration positions to the highest bidder or gives them as personal favors to wedding planners and dog breeders, often with the intent of actually damaging the organization they are supposed to be running. Say what you want about him, but he is a narcissistic, sociopathic thug by any standard of measure.
I blame the first-past-the-post voting system used for the Republican primaries in 2016. Trump ran against a few clones, who split the non-Trump votes.

Approval voting, single transferable vote, instant runoff... any of these would be better voting systems to use, and none would have allowed Trump to win the primary. The voting system we use is literally the worst one.

Maine voted in a better voting system 4 years ago. Alaska and Missouri both have referendums this year to do the same. I really hope the idea spreads.
Learn to doubt the stories you tell about yourselves and your adversaries.

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SaidNobody
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Re: Keeping up with Trump

Post by SaidNobody » Thu Oct 22, 2020 3:23 pm

Hagoth wrote:
Tue Oct 20, 2020 5:32 pm
Who I do blame are the enablers.
One of the misconceptions is that Trump somehow convinced us to support him. More toward the truth is that he represents us.

Years ago, Trump said something to the effect that if he ever decided to run for president, he would run as a Republican because they were the stupidest people on earth. At the time, he was a Democrat. He pretty much kept his word.

The reason that phrase doesn't offend us is that he is giving us what we want. He had his agenda, Make America Great, but it wasn't hard to give us what we wanted, like border security, conservative judges, Merry Christmas, giving life a chance, etc. You can tell he really doesn't care about the ProLife issue so much, but in truth, it was invalid law and should be pushed back to the lower court and re-hashed out.

So, don't think of us as "enablers" but rather as sponsors. And, just for the record, I would way rather watch the news than Professional Wrestling. Watching Trump work is far more entertaining than watching Mixed Martial Arts (MMA) or other sports where people get their butt kicked.

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Hagoth
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Re: Keeping up with Trump

Post by Hagoth » Thu Oct 22, 2020 3:49 pm

SaidNobody wrote:
Thu Oct 22, 2020 3:23 pm
So, don't think of us as "enablers" but rather as sponsors.
The enablers I'm really trying to emphasize are the hypocritical politicians who sold their souls and dignity and still like to play at being Christians. They are not the "stupidest people on earth," just some of the most morally vacant.

If you can get people to vote for you by playing on their stupidity, more power to you. They get what they paid for. The problem is that they drag the slightly less stupid people along with them. An article today in the Times said the demographic that best describes Trump voters is poorly educated white people. It also noted that it's a demographic that is shrinking, thank goodness.

By the way, the war on Christmas is completely imaginary and the stupidest invention of the Christian Right. It's like Black Lives Matter. Recognizing that black people's lives also matter doesn't mean white lives matter any less, unless you don't really believe that black people's lives do matter as much in which case then yeah, it does take the value of white people's lives down a tiny notch, relatively speaking. By the same token, saying Happy Holidays isn't an attack on Jesus. It's a very old Christian greeting that refers to the Christian tradition of holy days that stretch from Advent (November 29) to Epiphany (January 6).

And besides, does it really hurt anyone to wish Jews a happy Hannuka or African Americans a happy Kwansaa? Does that really piss Jesus off? Are Christians so fragile and afraid that Jesus can't take care of himself that they have to take a racist stand against other people's holidays, for crying out loud? People were up in arms because Starbucks had a solid-colored cup one year and left last year's snowman off. It's not like the new cup showed Jesus getting pelted with fetuses by lesbian feminists or anything. It was just a solid red cup. They just left off the freakin' snowman. I don't recall Frosty appearing on the Mount of Transfiguration or anything. Or maybe it was a snowflake or some holly or something. I dunno. Same thing.

p.s. I'm writing all of this with a smile on my face, not a grumpy old man grimace.
“The easy confidence with which I know another man's religion is folly teaches me to suspect that my own is also.” -Mark Twain

Jesus: "The Kingdom of God is within you." The Buddha: "Be your own light."

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