Families Floating in Hereafter

Discussions toward a better understanding of LDS doctrine, history, and culture. Discussion of Christianity, religion, and faith in general is welcome.
Post Reply
User avatar
moksha
Posts: 4085
Joined: Tue Oct 18, 2016 4:22 am

Families Floating in Hereafter

Post by moksha » Thu Nov 11, 2021 6:06 am

I was curious as to the reason God would want to take away your loved ones or break up your family if you are not Mormon.

Any thoughts on what would be God's motivation, or if this is a self-serving notion from LDS HQ?
Good faith does not require evidence, but it also does not turn a blind eye to that evidence. Otherwise, it becomes misplaced faith.
-- Moksha

User avatar
Ghost
Posts: 320
Joined: Tue Oct 25, 2016 11:40 pm

Re: Families Floating in Hereafter

Post by Ghost » Thu Nov 11, 2021 8:07 am

It's also interesting to speculate on the exact mechanism of that separation. Presumably, if someone were to try to make an unsanctioned visit a family member they could not be threatened with physical harm. Is it just too far and you don't get a space bus ticket? Or is it another dimension you can't phase into? Or can you be confined or kept out with a physical barrier of some type?

Red Ryder
Posts: 3414
Joined: Sun Oct 16, 2016 5:14 pm

Re: Families Floating in Hereafter

Post by Red Ryder » Thu Nov 11, 2021 9:26 am

The way I understand it, everyone in the celestial kingdom will be walking around in their garments. So anyone from a lower kingdom will be noticed pretty damn quick! :lol:

Possibly all mesh with the 60’s style butt flap.
Those who do not move do not notice their chains. —Rosa Luxemburg

User avatar
2bizE
Posts: 2189
Joined: Mon Oct 17, 2016 9:33 pm

Re: Families Floating in Hereafter

Post by 2bizE » Thu Nov 11, 2021 12:33 pm

Red Ryder wrote:
Thu Nov 11, 2021 9:26 am
The way I understand it, everyone in the celestial kingdom will be walking around in their garments. So anyone from a lower kingdom will be noticed pretty damn quick! :lol:

Possibly all mesh with the 60’s style butt flap.
This makes sense with the recent survey on garments.
~2bizE

User avatar
Hagoth
Posts: 5720
Joined: Fri Oct 14, 2016 1:13 pm

Re: Families Floating in Hereafter

Post by Hagoth » Thu Nov 11, 2021 6:00 pm

Everyone will be herded around by angels with flaming cattle prods that prevent you from visiting your unworthy relatives and force you to have sex with the spouses that were taken away from those relatives and given to you.
“The easy confidence with which I know another man's religion is folly teaches me to suspect that my own is also.” -Mark Twain

Jesus: "The Kingdom of God is within you." The Buddha: "Be your own light."

Reuben
Posts: 1445
Joined: Sat Oct 28, 2017 3:01 pm

Re: Families Floating in Hereafter

Post by Reuben » Fri Nov 12, 2021 5:36 pm

Ghost wrote:
Thu Nov 11, 2021 8:07 am
It's also interesting to speculate on the exact mechanism of that separation. Presumably, if someone were to try to make an unsanctioned visit a family member they could not be threatened with physical harm. Is it just too far and you don't get a space bus ticket? Or is it another dimension you can't phase into? Or can you be confined or kept out with a physical barrier of some type?
I remember some consistent, widespread Mormon folklore that says you can make visits downward, but not upward. Higher kingdoms are just too darn glorious I guess.

I'm pretty sure the people in higher kingdoms have to be just as glorious as their kingdoms. Too glorious for the common folk in lower kingdoms to actually live with. They'd immediately be burned to a crisp.

So clearly, the ones from higher kingdoms have to hide all their glorious glory before they visit lower kingdoms. So why not live there? Maybe they have too many glorious things to do in their higher kingdom, like bearing billions of celestial tadpoles. Maybe it's not feasible to wear telestial blackface all the time. Who knows?
Learn to doubt the stories you tell about yourselves and your adversaries.

User avatar
stealthbishop
Posts: 111
Joined: Sun Sep 09, 2018 9:25 am

Re: Families Floating in Hereafter

Post by stealthbishop » Sun Nov 14, 2021 10:02 am

moksha wrote:
Thu Nov 11, 2021 6:06 am
I was curious as to the reason God would want to take away your loved ones or break up your family if you are not Mormon.

Any thoughts on what would be God's motivation, or if this is a self-serving notion from LDS HQ?
My sense is that it is a residual of Augustinian/Calvinist theology of a psychopathic god who has billions of people created but is offended so terribly by original sin that his sovereignty is in question and so he ends up torturing billions of people for eternity and predetermining to save a very limited few. There needs to be some type of punishment apparently! So the modern orthodox LDS version softens this but still is ridiculous, irrational, and immoral.
"Take second best
Put me to the test
Things on your chest
You need to confess"

-Depeche Mode

User avatar
deacon blues
Posts: 1562
Joined: Tue Oct 18, 2016 7:37 am

Re: Families Floating in Hereafter

Post by deacon blues » Mon Nov 15, 2021 8:39 pm

I find this quote interesting:
Joseph used to say that he would have her (Emma Smith) hereafter, IF HE HAD TO GO TO HELL FOR HER, AND HE WILL HAVE TO GO TO HELL FOR HER AS SURE AS HE EVER GETS HER." Brigham Young. (Journal of Discourses, Volume 17, page 159)

Maybe if you are a prophet God gives you special privileges, like bringing people up from lower kingdoms. This quote makes it seem like Joseph thought so, and maybe Brigham did too.
God is Love. God is Truth. The greatest problem with organized religion is that the organization becomes god, rather than a means of serving God.

hmb
Posts: 350
Joined: Tue Jan 03, 2017 6:43 am

Re: Families Floating in Hereafter

Post by hmb » Tue Nov 16, 2021 7:24 am

deacon blues wrote:
Mon Nov 15, 2021 8:39 pm
I find this quote interesting:
Joseph used to say that he would have her (Emma Smith) hereafter, IF HE HAD TO GO TO HELL FOR HER, AND HE WILL HAVE TO GO TO HELL FOR HER AS SURE AS HE EVER GETS HER." Brigham Young. (Journal of Discourses, Volume 17, page 159)

Maybe if you are a prophet God gives you special privileges, like bringing people up from lower kingdoms. This quote makes it seem like Joseph thought so, and maybe Brigham did too.
Maybe Emma will have to go to hell to get Joseph. I don't think she will do that.

User avatar
Palerider
Posts: 2053
Joined: Fri Nov 25, 2016 8:44 am

Re: Families Floating in Hereafter

Post by Palerider » Tue Nov 16, 2021 6:00 pm

deacon blues wrote:
Mon Nov 15, 2021 8:39 pm
I find this quote interesting:
Joseph used to say that he would have her (Emma Smith) hereafter, IF HE HAD TO GO TO HELL FOR HER, AND HE WILL HAVE TO GO TO HELL FOR HER AS SURE AS HE EVER GETS HER." Brigham Young. (Journal of Discourses, Volume 17, page 159)

Maybe if you are a prophet God gives you special privileges, like bringing people up from lower kingdoms. This quote makes it seem like Joseph thought so, and maybe Brigham did too.
I always figured this was Brigham and Joseph's b.s. hyperbole when frustrated by Emma. (if Joseph really said that. I don't trust Brigham's "recollections.")

Brigham would have said this as a not so subtle way of telling his listeners that Emma was in hell because she wouldn't come west with the saints and fully support the Brighamite branch of the church. Must have really galled him.
"There is but one straight course, and that is to seek truth and pursue it steadily."

"Truth will ultimately prevail where there is pains to bring it to light."

George Washington

User avatar
deacon blues
Posts: 1562
Joined: Tue Oct 18, 2016 7:37 am

Re: Families Floating in Hereafter

Post by deacon blues » Fri Nov 19, 2021 6:19 pm

Joseph did say this about sealings.
March 11, 1844: "Joseph /W.W. Journal: Again the doctrine or sealing power of Elijah is as follows: if you have power to seal on earth & in heaven then we should be crafty. (changed to wise in HC:6, p. 253) The first thing you do go & seal on earth your sons & your daughters unto yourself and yourself unto your fathers in eternal glory & go ahead and not go back but use a little craftiness and seal all you can and when you get to heaven tell your father what you seal on earth should be sealed in heaven. I will walk through the gate of heaven and Claim what I seal and those that follow me and my counsel."
On odd number days I believe Joseph convinced himself he had all that power. On those days I believe Joseph really believed he could tell God what to do. ;)
On even number days I believe Joseph was a crafty, blustering fraud. He just acted as if he had all that power. :o ;)

But I could be wrong. :)
God is Love. God is Truth. The greatest problem with organized religion is that the organization becomes god, rather than a means of serving God.

Reuben
Posts: 1445
Joined: Sat Oct 28, 2017 3:01 pm

Re: Families Floating in Hereafter

Post by Reuben » Fri Nov 19, 2021 8:43 pm

deacon blues wrote:
Fri Nov 19, 2021 6:19 pm
Joseph did say this about sealings.
March 11, 1844: "Joseph /W.W. Journal: Again the doctrine or sealing power of Elijah is as follows: if you have power to seal on earth & in heaven then we should be crafty. (changed to wise in HC:6, p. 253) The first thing you do go & seal on earth your sons & your daughters unto yourself and yourself unto your fathers in eternal glory & go ahead and not go back but use a little craftiness and seal all you can and when you get to heaven tell your father what you seal on earth should be sealed in heaven. I will walk through the gate of heaven and Claim what I seal and those that follow me and my counsel."
On odd number days I believe Joseph convinced himself he had all that power. On those days I believe Joseph really believed he could tell God what to do. ;)
On even number days I believe Joseph was a crafty, blustering fraud. He just acted as if he had all that power. :o ;)

But I could be wrong. :)
He's like that drawing that can either be a young woman or an old woman. Your brain flips between the two interpretations on its own whims.
Learn to doubt the stories you tell about yourselves and your adversaries.

User avatar
Palerider
Posts: 2053
Joined: Fri Nov 25, 2016 8:44 am

Re: Families Floating in Hereafter

Post by Palerider » Fri Nov 19, 2021 10:26 pm

Trying to remember. I think I read the extract of the diary here on nom about the young lady invited to Nauvoo to visit her relatives for a few months.

Wrote down her impressions of Joseph.

A good synopsis would be that she thought he was a crafty, bloviating, overgrown ego.

Pretty astute I think.
"There is but one straight course, and that is to seek truth and pursue it steadily."

"Truth will ultimately prevail where there is pains to bring it to light."

George Washington

User avatar
Palerider
Posts: 2053
Joined: Fri Nov 25, 2016 8:44 am

Re: Families Floating in Hereafter

Post by Palerider » Fri Nov 19, 2021 10:31 pm

deacon blues wrote:
Fri Nov 19, 2021 6:19 pm
Joseph did say this about sealings.
March 11, 1844: "Joseph /W.W. Journal: Again the doctrine or sealing power of Elijah is as follows: if you have power to seal on earth & in heaven then we should be crafty. (changed to wise in HC:6, p. 253) The first thing you do go & seal on earth your sons & your daughters unto yourself and yourself unto your fathers in eternal glory & go ahead and not go back but use a little craftiness and seal all you can and when you get to heaven tell your father what you seal on earth should be sealed in heaven. I will walk through the gate of heaven and Claim what I seal and those that follow me and my counsel."
On odd number days I believe Joseph convinced himself he had all that power. On those days I believe Joseph really believed he could tell God what to do. ;)
On even number days I believe Joseph was a crafty, blustering fraud. He just acted as if he had all that power. :o ;)

But I could be wrong. :)
Doesn't the whole thing just sound like a load of crap though? I mean regardless of what Joseph did or didn't think of himself, I can't see why grown adults would actually buy in to such a hot mess.
"There is but one straight course, and that is to seek truth and pursue it steadily."

"Truth will ultimately prevail where there is pains to bring it to light."

George Washington

Lloyd Christmas
Posts: 27
Joined: Mon Oct 31, 2016 12:04 am

Re: Families Floating in Hereafter

Post by Lloyd Christmas » Sat Nov 20, 2021 9:21 am

moksha wrote:
Thu Nov 11, 2021 6:06 am
I was curious as to the reason God would want to take away your loved ones or break up your family if you are not Mormon.

Any thoughts on what would be God's motivation, or if this is a self-serving notion from LDS HQ?
This was actually one of the first discussions I had with my ex wife after my shelf had thoroughly broken.

If my father and I decided to hang out together in the telestial kingdom, why would God stop us? Or two people that are married, and end up in the terrestrial kingdom, what would stop them from living together? Or two best friends from living next to each other?

To me the answer is simple-forever familes is a powerful message and being in control of that eternal family gives the church all the power. If you want to be together after this life, pay tithing, be a good Mormon.

My father was in the process of leaving the church when my youngest sister was getting sealed in the temple, but he wasn't fully out. He went to the bishop to request a recommend so he could attend. The bishop said yes, but he needed to catch up on tithing since he hadn't paid any inna couple years. My father is a well off physician making over 300,000 a year.

He paid and was at the sealing,. He's out now, and still bitter about that 30k ransom paid to attend his daughters wedding.

User avatar
Palerider
Posts: 2053
Joined: Fri Nov 25, 2016 8:44 am

Re: Families Floating in Hereafter

Post by Palerider » Sat Nov 20, 2021 9:58 am

Lloyd Christmas wrote:
Sat Nov 20, 2021 9:21 am

To me the answer is simple-forever familes is a powerful message and being in control of that eternal family gives the church all the power. If you want to be together after this life, pay tithing, be a good Mormon.
Spiritual coercion at it's finest....

And this is the same spiritual arm twisting Joseph used to get 14 year old Helen M. Kimball to be a plural wife.

"Marry me and I'll write you and all your family a guaranteed ticket to the CK. You do want to go to the CK don't you?"

What a bastard..... :evil:
"There is but one straight course, and that is to seek truth and pursue it steadily."

"Truth will ultimately prevail where there is pains to bring it to light."

George Washington

User avatar
Just This Guy
Posts: 1288
Joined: Fri Oct 21, 2016 3:30 pm
Location: Almost Heaven

Re: Families Floating in Hereafter

Post by Just This Guy » Wed Nov 24, 2021 7:23 am

You can thank Stephen King, but when we talk about people floating around, this is what comes to mind.

Image

That really changes my opinion on an afterlife. If we are floating like, that, I'll take oblivion.
"The story so far: In the beginning the Universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move." -- Douglas Adams

Post Reply

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 17 guests