FSY and good, better, best

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blazerb
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FSY and good, better, best

Post by blazerb » Mon Apr 25, 2022 9:17 am

So this plea from church leaders to get kids to FSY camp was posted over on Reddit:
https://www.reddit.com/r/exmormon/comme ... the_youth/

Like many of the commenters, I was hit hard by the notion that kids are being pressured to give up sports and academic opportunities for FSY. I am guessing that youth will be told to take time off work or even quit so they can attend. They referred to DHO's talk about "Good, Better, Best" and asserted that FSY is best. The notion that a few days of church is better than almost anything perturbed me.

This made me remember how I was pressured to take release time seminary instead of academic classes. My senior year, it really impacted my academic opportunities. Of course, I also had a seminary teacher who spent most of the day in prep time, that a**hole, so the periods that seminary was available were very limited. After all these years, I am sure that there really was a problem because our school counselor asked me, "Does your bishop know what is going on over there?" Everyone could tell that seminary was nonsense.

I'm glad I'm out. My kids are out. If there are ever grandkids, they won't be expected to give up real opportunities for a fake one.

stuck
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Re: FSY and good, better, best

Post by stuck » Tue Apr 26, 2022 4:54 pm

This is another sign that the church is a cult right? They put the youth in these programs or activities where they are expected to bear testimony and such to try to strengthen their beliefs in the church. I suppose they do this so that they will be more likely to go on a mission or marry in the temple right? The church has been in this business a long time and kind of knows what works I suppose.

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Just This Guy
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Re: FSY and good, better, best

Post by Just This Guy » Wed Apr 27, 2022 5:24 am

So has FSY replaced EFY camps? Been a while since I followed LDS summer youth camps.

Of course, they are going more and more for the Jesus Camp vibe.

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B001AMRHNU

Highly recommend that documentary/horror movie.
"The story so far: In the beginning the Universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move." -- Douglas Adams

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nibbler
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Re: FSY and good, better, best

Post by nibbler » Wed Apr 27, 2022 5:44 am

This reminds me of a talk Nelson gave during April 2017 general conference. This is from "Drawing the Power of Jesus Christ into Our Lives."
Recently I learned of a fearless young Laurel. She was invited to participate in a statewide competition for her high school on the same evening she had committed to participate in a stake Relief Society meeting. When she realized the conflict and explained to competition officials that she would need to leave the competition early to attend an important meeting, she was told she would be disqualified if she did so.

What did this latter-day Laurel do? She kept her commitment to participate in the Relief Society meeting. As promised, she was disqualified from the statewide competition. When asked about her decision, she replied simply, “Well, the Church is more important, isn’t it?”
Hearing this prompted a discussion in our home. In this instance the "best" is the high school statewide competition.

How many opportunities are you going to get in life to participate in a high school statewide competition? One? Two? Maybe a dozen before your eligibility is up permanently. How many opportunities are you going to get in life to participate in a stake Relief Society meeting?

There's always a stake Relief Society meeting and they always say the same things. If you skip one you won't miss a thing. Promise.

Best is going to a once in a lifetime event. Best is doing something that will create memories that will last a lifetime. You might have to convince me that virtue signaling about attending a RS meeting even qualifies as good.

Filling in the gaps of the story (provided it's even real) with many of my experiences; I wonder whether the Laurel in the story even committed to participate in the stake Relief Society meeting or whether someone else committed her to participate. I wonder what the nature of the commitment was. Probably just to attend.

I'll pump my own brakes. I'm in no position to determine what's good, better, or best for that Laurel. Maybe attending the RS meeting was the best for her. I really shouldn't question someone else's decision, all I can say is what I'd do and how I'd counsel my kid in a similar situation.
We don’t see things as they are, we see them as we are.
– Anais Nin

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nibbler
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Re: FSY and good, better, best

Post by nibbler » Wed Apr 27, 2022 6:00 am

All that said, FSY straddles that fence. You've got a limited number of years for eligibility. FSY is still going to be more of the same though.

One worry I have after this most recent general conference is that many activities and meetings (like FSY) will be one long high-pressure sales pitch to convince young men to serve missions.

Renewing the call for every young man to serve a mission and the counsel to put everything else aside to attend FSY both feel like they're both rooted in church leaders being concerned about youth retention but not being sure how to address the issue.

From a church leader perspective, good, better, and best comes down to what's best for the church but that's not always the same as being what's good, better, and best for an individual. Too often the answer from leaders comes in some form of manipulation. Indoctrinate the youth at FSY, do whatever it takes to get them there. Turn the screws on the culture to get everyone applying pressure on young men to serve a mission.

It feels like leaders are in desperation mode and they're doing the typical thing where they don't try to adapt to be relevant in people's lives, they just try to get more buy-in to existing programs that aren't working.
We don’t see things as they are, we see them as we are.
– Anais Nin

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stealthbishop
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Re: FSY and good, better, best

Post by stealthbishop » Wed Apr 27, 2022 6:54 am

It is not unusual for high demand religions to have these summer camps for children and teens. Even in low demand religions such as reform Judaism have summer camps that help pass on Jewish traditions and Hebrew, etc.

The problem for me is not that these things exist but how much pressure is on the child to attend and what is taught? The LDS church misaligns with many of my values with one of the biggest being what is taught about human sexuality and the indoctrination into purity culture and the serious harm that can be done. EFY is a BIG culprit for passing on this toxicity to young people. If it was a Reform Jewish summer camp model, I could be okay with that but it's not and never will be.

A good documentary is Jesus Camp to see the extreme conservative evangelical side of this which mirrors LDS to some degree.
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blazerb
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Re: FSY and good, better, best

Post by blazerb » Wed Apr 27, 2022 9:32 am

nibbler wrote:
Wed Apr 27, 2022 6:00 am
All that said, FSY straddles that fence. You've got a limited number of years for eligibility. FSY is still going to be more of the same though.
This might be a case of artificial scarcity. Yes, there are only so many years you can go to FSY, but is it worth it? Like you mention, it's more of the same. Whereas a sports camp, for example, would be developing skills that go beyond what you've already done if it's a decent one.

I was a leader when my son attended an LDS Boy Scout encampment, back when the church had scouts. That was the worst scout camp we ever attended. The biggest problem was that it was crowded. But even setting that aside, there were firesides every night. Boys were sent to camp to sit in a large group and listen to some guy tell them how to be righteous for about an hour per night. It was worthless. A lot of the fun of camp was lost because it had to be "spiritual."
stealthbishop wrote:
Wed Apr 27, 2022 6:54 am
The problem for me is not that these things exist but how much pressure is on the child to attend and what is taught? The LDS church misaligns with many of my values with one of the biggest being what is taught about human sexuality and the indoctrination into purity culture and the serious harm that can be done. EFY is a BIG culprit for passing on this toxicity to young people. If it was a Reform Jewish summer camp model, I could be okay with that but it's not and never will be.
I also expect these things to exist. Some of the conversation over on reddit is that it appears that young people aren't signing up for FSY camp. There are lots of other things that are more important to them. The kids are probably already aware of how messed up the teachings will be, also. Unfortunately there will be kids from highly orthodox families that will get hit with more harmful standards rather than getting to see the wider world.

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hallew
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Re: FSY and good, better, best

Post by hallew » Wed Apr 27, 2022 9:42 am

I’ve seen a few emails in our area about it, but I usually delete them. Right now I have been receiving emails for girls’ camp since I’m an YW Advisor; I already informed them I couldn’t attend due to work. I have made it this far in life without once attending and don’t plan to start now. I’m still trying to fade away from my calling. Actually, I’m trying to fade away from all the church stuff. :lol:

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Advocate
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Re: FSY and good, better, best

Post by Advocate » Thu Apr 28, 2022 12:14 pm

Our stake isn't up for attending EFY this year (I believe your stake is selected to attend once every two or three years) so we don't have this particular conflict, but I see a lot of the same conflicts with other youth activities. We live in a prosperous society and people have funds to travel and vacation, but time is limited for everyone. Many families aren't interested in giving up some of their limited free time for another church activity which will be forgettable, just like all the other church activities.

In our stake the youth are invited to go on a trip this summer to visit some of the church historical sites. One of the stake leaders had the brilliant idea to make it a "missionary" trip, so all the youth had to wear missionary clothes for the entire trip. Because that is what youth will enjoy, wearing church clothes on a trip in the middle of summer. Not sure if that got voted down or not, but there are a decent amount of members that seem to enjoy being miserable.

I'm not sure what the solution is to keep youth in the church, but sucking the fun out of every activity so it can be "spiritual" isn't it.

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nibbler
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Re: FSY and good, better, best

Post by nibbler » Fri Apr 29, 2022 6:32 am

Advocate wrote:
Thu Apr 28, 2022 12:14 pm
One of the stake leaders had the brilliant idea to make it a "missionary" trip, so all the youth had to wear missionary clothes for the entire trip.
Wow. I have a hard time coming up with what leads people to think like that.

Behold, my suggestion has now established that my virtue is stronger than any other stake leader!
or
Nelson emphasized the importance of going on a mission. This will surely make the kids want to serve one.

It does kinda fit the Established Pattern of the Lord.

Leader 1: Kids are going inactive.
Leader 2: They're going inactive because they don't know how important we, I mean the church, they don't know how important the church is. Let's start up a seminary program so they understand just what it is they're giving up.

Leader 1: The kids are still going inactive.
Leader 2: Make seminary at 6:00AM.

Leader 1: The kids are still going inactive.
Leader 2: Make them take tests in seminary.

Leader 1: The kids are still going inactive.
Leader 2: Make them start seminary in middle school.

Leader 1: The kids are still going inactive.
Leader 2: Make them follow missionary grooming and dress standards while they attend seminary.

Leader 1: The babies are going inactive before they even have a chance to become kids.
We don’t see things as they are, we see them as we are.
– Anais Nin

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Red Ryder
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Re: FSY and good, better, best

Post by Red Ryder » Fri Apr 29, 2022 9:18 am

nibbler wrote:
Fri Apr 29, 2022 6:32 am
Leader 1: The babies are going inactive before they even have a chance to become kids.
Leader 2: Make them wear onesie garments patterned after the old ones!
“It always devolves to Pantaloons. Always.” ~ Fluffy

“I switched baristas” ~ Lady Gaga

“Those who do not move do not notice their chains.” ~Rosa Luxemburg

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