Trump & Church

[dogbite]

[A bank made a loan, got paid in full, and this is a fraud. Mmmkay.

Strange how you fixate on what isn't the standard in the law in this case.

[Mayan_Elephant]

No. And I doubt you hold the Bidens to the same standard.

Have to see the evidence won't we.

No. We won't. Unless we are the judge.

[Hagoth]

[A bank made a loan, got paid in full, and this is a fraud. Mmmkay.

Strange how you fixate on what isn't the standard in the law in this case.

I think someone in the Republican senate is working on a The Ends Justifies the Means bill which, if passed, will then be sent back in time to fix the problem. And my meth dealer will finally be recognized as a fine upstanding citizen as long as I am happy with the quality of the product.

[Mayan_Elephant]

[A bank made a loan, got paid in full, and this is a fraud. Mmmkay.

Strange how you fixate on what isn't the standard in the law in this case.

I think someone in the Republican senate is working on a The Ends Justifies the Means bill which, if passed, will then be sent back in time to fix the problem. And my meth dealer will finally be recognized as a fine upstanding citizen as long as I am happy with the quality of the product.

Not fixated, Hagoth. It is the exact opposite. My F's given for a fraud trial where the loan was paid in full, is at zero. I have been deposed enough on securities related things, and I have shorted equities and bonds. And if you understand shorting, particularly shorting credit, you would know that this is an extremely complicated position. I understand actual fraud. And if the NY AG was concerned about fraud, she would not be looking at this nonsense. But - headlines and gag orders get donations, actual fraud trials do not.

For what it is worth, my GAS's for investors of Madoff funds is less than zero. Much less. Why? Because it took a spectacular amount of moronory to buy securities in a fund that was audited by the fund. Simply acknowledging the process and that the process was circumvented told people that the fund was a scam. But, the investors wanted the returns at their stage in the ponzi. The process said - this is bullshit. And it was. The process in this Trump trial says, this is bullshit.

Trump paid his bill. Solyndra did not. But as has been discussed, meh, can't see anything there.

And, are you fixated on this image? (I don't think you are, but are you?)

[Mayan_Elephant]

Taking this analogy further, Obama showed up and was very much like a so-called prophet after 8 years of war and lies. The media, the exmormons, the democrats, and many groups embraced him as the "Lord's Anointed" and covenanted to not speak evil - even when evil shit was going on. This carried over to his successor prophets.

I couldn't possibly count the number of times I have heard people on the Religious Right say that Trump was called by God. While evil shit was going on. Our beloved senator Lee called him Captain Moroni. Everybody does exactly the same thing on one side as they see people doing on the other side. And it's all distorted and exaggerated. The decent people of America just want and deserve a decent president. There is no evil half of America that wants and evil president! Unfortunately no one has been put forward as a reasonable offer. Decent people are the first to be thrown off the island. Our representatives in Washington do not represent us; they just feed the fire. I for one am sick and tired of it. People on the Right need to stop pretending that Trump has not let them down. Same for the left. But, c'mon, Trump is just a victim of a witch hunt and bears no responsibility for the consequences of his actions? That's wearing kind of thin. (not aimed at you ME, just at the weird world we live in).

I am also sick and tired of people pretending that Donald Trump is an honest, law abiding hero who has never lied or cheated, and is just a victim of political prejudice. And ranting about Hunter's laptop as a diversion doesn't change any of that. Same goes for Biden and the rest of them. Kick them out or put them all in prison, and keep kicking them out and putting them in prison until somebody can pass the muster.

And while we're at it, let's excommunicate religious leaders who can't obey their own expectations for their followers. Let's stop treating political and religious leaders on "our side" as untouchable extensions of ourselves and excusing their sins and crimes because we need them to be what we imagine they should be, even though they just keep letting us down.

ETA some more lunatic ranting. Sorry.

The socialist could have chosen the far right wackos or they could have chosen the far left wackos to start a revolution inside every institution within our government and religious institutions. They chose the far left, and I think it was because the left is more cunning and are more susceptible to blatant deceit. Believe me when I say that if they had picked the extreme right to start their evil plan, I would be talking shit about the Republicans with just as much fervor as I do about the Democrats, but that did not occur. The moderate Democrats are at a loss as to how to put an end to the socialists' dominance of the Democratic Party, which they enabled by welcoming them into the party in the first place. They have given the socialists permission to indoctrinate three generations' worth of our youth and young adults, and now we will pay the price in the not too distant future. There is absolutely nothing that can be done about it. There is only one choice, and that is to employ physical force, whether in the form of a civil war or something a little less bloody; however, this is not going to occur because it is all a game of numbers, and now that the democratic socialists have brainwashed three generations of our citizens, it is too late, and even the Republicans understand this.

The mentality of a socialist functions in exactly the same way as that of a good cult member, who is happy to live in squalor so long as their leader and doctrine are not called into question; in other words, the exact same way. They are willing to deal with homeless people living on the streets, interest rates being 15%, gas being $6 dollars a gallon, and even a President who says black people aren't actually black unless they vote democrat, none of that matters, because once someone is indoctrinated into socialism, they are willing to endure any amount of pain as long as the Satan of republicanism does not become their country's leader. If in the year 2024, interest rates reach 25%, Democrats voters won't bat an eye since they'd rather pay through the nose to avoid having orange Satan in the White House.

No matter what the Republicans say, there is no going back, and there is no way to erase the damage that we have enabled socialists to cause to our younger generation.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Dlug57b92E

There were many live feeds from Madrid today. The police are responding to this. Not like the tolerance they have for protests the establishment wants. This is a predictable outcome.

[hmb]

I was impressed with Rusty Bowers until he said that if Trump were running against Biden again, he would vote for Trump. Even after Trump thoroughly bullied him and threatened him, Bowers will still vote for Trump again. Until Bowers said that, I thought he was very honorable. -- Wndr.

This did not surprise me. My parents do NOT like Trump. Not at all. But they will vote republican regardless. To them, the lesser of the two evils is Trump before a democrat. As evil as Trump is, and they know he's evil, they believe democrats are worse. I would have been more surprised if Rusty said he would not vote for Trump.

So when I read post like yours, I'm sometimes gobsmacked at how people who grew up believing in a Satan can't see that the democrat party has successfully turned Donald Trump into a Satan so they can use him as a tool to scare you into voting for them! Is there anyone on this board that understands how the democrats use Trump and MAGA to scare you into voting for them? Both the Mormon church and the Democrats have a Satan. Both say that their Satan have an army of fallen soldiers, Mormons have Lucifer and the fallen angels that we have to contend with mentally, and the Democrats have Trump as their Satan and his soldiers are all the MAGA supporters. Both the Mormons and Democrats say that your life is in danger if their evil Satan convinces you that he's the one you should follow.

The democrats have taken an orange man that is extremely cocky, but loves this country, doesn't have a criminal record, doesn't do drugs, doesn't smoke, doesn't drink, doesn't have any tattoos, has a relationship with all his children and ex wives, and has turned the man into a living breathing Satan because they know their voters rather vote their emotions, not with logic. It's a play right out of the communist handbook and we're all watching the circus act play out in live time. Grab some popcorn! This socialist transformation is going to be fun to watch.

Trump as Satan? Wow, that's giving him a lot of power. Why do you assume I'm a democrat or one who buys into everything democrats say? Why do you decide I would lump all Trump voters as MAGA supporters? To believe one side is God-like and the other evil is cultish behavior. Those who believe this way, generally do not think for themselves. I would normally vote for whomever I believe would be the best choice, red or blue. That is democracy. The last few elections, I have not been able to support the republican party, because I don't believe they are good for the country. That doesn't make me a hater. That means I am making choices. MY choices based on what I think is best, not on right/left, conservative/liberal. I don't like everything the democrats do, but believe they are on a better path. My point above was that while my LDS family can't stand Trump and his behavior, they would vote for him if he's the republican nominee, even if found guilty of his alleged crimes. Not because they are MAGA or believe Trump is right, but because they can't vote anything but republican. And why is that? Because that's what the only true church would choose. How is this voting with logic??? Somehow voting republican will save the country, even if they admit the republican party, in its present form, is going to end democracy. Maybe it's belief in "signs of the times." Jesus will come in and save us from destruction. Who knows? I'm now speculating.

[Mayan_Elephant]

How 'bout this one? Nothing? Crickets?

[Dirty Bird]

This did not surprise me. My parents do NOT like Trump. Not at all. But they will vote republican regardless. To them, the lesser of the two evils is Trump before a democrat. As evil as Trump is, and they know he's evil, they believe democrats are worse. I would have been more surprised if Rusty said he would not vote for Trump.

So when I read post like yours, I'm sometimes gobsmacked at how people who grew up believing in a Satan can't see that the democrat party has successfully turned Donald Trump into a Satan so they can use him as a tool to scare you into voting for them! Is there anyone on this board that understands how the democrats use Trump and MAGA to scare you into voting for them? Both the Mormon church and the Democrats have a Satan. Both say that their Satan have an army of fallen soldiers, Mormons have Lucifer and the fallen angels that we have to contend with mentally, and the Democrats have Trump as their Satan and his soldiers are all the MAGA supporters. Both the Mormons and Democrats say that your life is in danger if their evil Satan convinces you that he's the one you should follow.

The democrats have taken an orange man that is extremely cocky, but loves this country, doesn't have a criminal record, doesn't do drugs, doesn't smoke, doesn't drink, doesn't have any tattoos, has a relationship with all his children and ex wives, and has turned the man into a living breathing Satan because they know their voters rather vote their emotions, not with logic. It's a play right out of the communist handbook and we're all watching the circus act play out in live time. Grab some popcorn! This socialist transformation is going to be fun to watch.

Trump as Satan? Wow, that's giving him a lot of power. Why do you assume I'm a democrat or one who buys into everything democrats say? Why do you decide I would lump all Trump voters as MAGA supporters? To believe one side is God-like and the other evil is cultish behavior. Those who believe this way, generally do not think for themselves. I would normally vote for whomever I believe would be the best choice, red or blue. That is democracy. The last few elections, I have not been able to support the republican party, because I don't believe they are good for the country. That doesn't make me a hater. That means I am making choices. MY choices based on what I think is best, not on right/left, conservative/liberal. I don't like everything the democrats do, but believe they are on a better path. My point above was that while my LDS family can't stand Trump and his behavior, they would vote for him if he's the republican nominee, even if found guilty of his alleged crimes. Not because they are MAGA or believe Trump is right, but because they can't vote anything but republican. And why is that? Because that's what the only true church would choose. How is this voting with logic??? Somehow voting republican will save the country, even if they admit the republican party, in its present form, is going to end democracy. Maybe it's belief in "signs of the times." Jesus will come in and save us from destruction. Who knows? I'm now speculating.

One of the most significant contrasts between my liberal friends and my conservative friends can be best expressed by the way in which they interpret a very popular saying that is huge among progressive youth, particularly among woke college students, and that saying is "Strength in Unity." I mean, how could anyone possibly argue with what has been stated there, right? It's so lovely, and thinking about it makes you feel all warm and fuzzy on the inside. However, with the use of the slogan "Strength in Unity," socialists within the Democratic Party will eventually be able to stifle first free speech and then freedom in its entirety. The socialists are incredibly perceptive. They are aware that in order to manipulate the youth into believing whatever it is that they want them to believe, regardless of the cause, they must first break down society by convincing the youth to believe in specific causes, and then they must convince the youth that these specific causes are all united and stronger if they are willing to work towards one common goal. Only then will they be able to accomplish their goal.

For instance, socialism has had such a detrimental effect on the cognitive abilities of parts of our younger population that some of the LGBTQ community have begun to favor the Palestinians rather than the Israelis. They will chant "from the river to the sea, Palestine will be free," which indicates that they have no problem with the Jews being wiped out. They continue to yell this message despite the fact that Hamas and the Palestinians would have no problem putting LGBT people living in Gaza behind bars if it meant furthering their cause. This particular case demonstrates how we have contributed to the growth of socialism as a cult within the Democratic Party. And why do some of these LGBT people choose the side of those who would put them in jail simply because of who they are? Because they have been taught that Palestinians, including Hamas, are an oppressed brown victim class, and that their freedom-fighting "resistance" against their oppressive, white, US-backed colonizers in Israel is a righteous cause with which to stand in solidarity, in other words, "Strength is Unity." This is because socialism disguised as wokeness has taught them that.

It couldn't be further from the truth if you tried! Dissension is the path to finding true strength. DISSENSION is to Socialism just like Kryptonite is to Superman. They cannot have people who disagree with what they are teaching their followers because their control is based on the idea that everyone is united, and they are willing to use force and even death to achieve unity in their group. The illusion of unity gives them total control, both physically and mentally. That's the situation playing out in the Democrat party.

I notice that more conservatives are totally fine with dissension, while liberals are more concerned with unity. This is primarily due to the fact that liberals think predominantly with their hearts before giving any consideration to using their intellect.

[Hagoth]

Trump as Satan? Wow, that's giving him a lot of power. Why do you assume I'm a democrat or one who buys into everything democrats say? Why do you decide I would lump all Trump voters as MAGA supporters? To believe one side is God-like and the other evil is cultish behavior. Those who believe this way, generally do not think for themselves. I would normally vote for whomever I believe would be the best choice, red or blue. That is democracy. The last few elections, I have not been able to support the republican party, because I don't believe they are good for the country. That doesn't make me a hater. That means I am making choices. MY choices based on what I think is best, not on right/left, conservative/liberal. I don't like everything the democrats do, but believe they are on a better path. My point above was that while my LDS family can't stand Trump and his behavior, they would vote for him if he's the republican nominee, even if found guilty of his alleged crimes. Not because they are MAGA or believe Trump is right, but because they can't vote anything but republican. And why is that? Because that's what the only true church would choose. How is this voting with logic??? Somehow voting republican will save the country, even if they admit the republican party, in its present form, is going to end democracy. Maybe it's belief in "signs of the times." Jesus will come in and save us from destruction. Who knows? I'm now speculating.

These are great observations. The problem here isn't one of Republican/Democrat, it's a black-and-white problem. I have very intelligent friends, family, and neighbors who have admitted to me that they think Trump is corrupt and dangerous, but they voted for him anyway, and will again, because it's the MORMON thing to do. In a sense, a vote for Trump is a vote for Russell M. Nelson because it strengthens the platform for Our Side. It is written into the Mormon belief system. Whenever Democrats are in power the constitution is hanging by a thread. When Republicans are in power God is keeping, even if just barely, the nation from falling into some kind of hellish nightmare world where everyone turns into homosexual rapists who enforce bestiality, suck hormones out of the brains of murdered babies, and kick down your doors to take away your precious guns and Bibles.

It shouldn't be about loyalty to one side or the other. We really, really need to stop thinking in black and white, and stop hating people because some guy in Washington can serve himself by fomenting anger to build voting coalitions for himself.

[Hagoth]

One of the most significant contrasts between my liberal friends and my conservative friends...

Somehow I question whether you actually have any "liberal" friends. If so, you certainly don't listen to them in any reasonable way, like a friend would.

Do all of your friends self-identify as either "conservative" or "liberal?" Because I have very few friends who put themselves into either category. Some tend to vote for one party or the other, but mostly they're just normal, well-rounded people who don't feel the need to jump up on a stump and start lecturing about the evils of the world at the drop of the hat. Some of them support LGBTQ rights AND gun rights. Some of them are pro-abortion but strong on border control. I have a Pagan friend who worships Odin and a General Authority friend. I love both of them dearly because they are both wonderful people. I have prepper friends and gay and transgender friends. All great people. I wish more self-proclaimed liberals and conservatives would step away from the echo chamber forums, turn off the talk radio, and get out in the world and just immerse themselves in real people, rather than promoting hurtful stereotypes to generate more hate. We have enough hate.

[Mayan_Elephant]

So when I read post like yours, I'm sometimes gobsmacked at how people who grew up believing in a Satan can't see that the democrat party has successfully turned Donald Trump into a Satan so they can use him as a tool to scare you into voting for them! Is there anyone on this board that understands how the democrats use Trump and MAGA to scare you into voting for them? Both the Mormon church and the Democrats have a Satan. Both say that their Satan have an army of fallen soldiers, Mormons have Lucifer and the fallen angels that we have to contend with mentally, and the Democrats have Trump as their Satan and his soldiers are all the MAGA supporters. Both the Mormons and Democrats say that your life is in danger if their evil Satan convinces you that he's the one you should follow.

The democrats have taken an orange man that is extremely cocky, but loves this country, doesn't have a criminal record, doesn't do drugs, doesn't smoke, doesn't drink, doesn't have any tattoos, has a relationship with all his children and ex wives, and has turned the man into a living breathing Satan because they know their voters rather vote their emotions, not with logic. It's a play right out of the communist handbook and we're all watching the circus act play out in live time. Grab some popcorn! This socialist transformation is going to be fun to watch.

Trump as Satan? Wow, that's giving him a lot of power. Why do you assume I'm a democrat or one who buys into everything democrats say? Why do you decide I would lump all Trump voters as MAGA supporters? To believe one side is God-like and the other evil is cultish behavior. Those who believe this way, generally do not think for themselves. I would normally vote for whomever I believe would be the best choice, red or blue. That is democracy. The last few elections, I have not been able to support the republican party, because I don't believe they are good for the country. That doesn't make me a hater. That means I am making choices. MY choices based on what I think is best, not on right/left, conservative/liberal. I don't like everything the democrats do, but believe they are on a better path. My point above was that while my LDS family can't stand Trump and his behavior, they would vote for him if he's the republican nominee, even if found guilty of his alleged crimes. Not because they are MAGA or believe Trump is right, but because they can't vote anything but republican. And why is that? Because that's what the only true church would choose. How is this voting with logic??? Somehow voting republican will save the country, even if they admit the republican party, in its present form, is going to end democracy. Maybe it's belief in "signs of the times." Jesus will come in and save us from destruction. Who knows? I'm now speculating.

One of the most significant contrasts between my liberal friends and my conservative friends can be best expressed by the way in which they interpret a very popular saying that is huge among progressive youth, particularly among woke college students, and that saying is "Strength in Unity." I mean, how could anyone possibly argue with what has been stated there, right? It's so lovely, and thinking about it makes you feel all warm and fuzzy on the inside. However, with the use of the slogan "Strength in Unity," socialists within the Democratic Party will eventually be able to stifle first free speech and then freedom in its entirety. The socialists are incredibly perceptive. They are aware that in order to manipulate the youth into believing whatever it is that they want them to believe, regardless of the cause, they must first break down society by convincing the youth to believe in specific causes, and then they must convince the youth that these specific causes are all united and stronger if they are willing to work towards one common goal. Only then will they be able to accomplish their goal.

For instance, socialism has had such a detrimental effect on the cognitive abilities of parts of our younger population that some of the LGBTQ community have begun to favor the Palestinians rather than the Israelis. They will chant "from the river to the sea, Palestine will be free," which indicates that they have no problem with the Jews being wiped out. They continue to yell this message despite the fact that Hamas and the Palestinians would have no problem putting LGBT people living in Gaza behind bars if it meant furthering their cause. This particular case demonstrates how we have contributed to the growth of socialism as a cult within the Democratic Party. And why do some of these LGBT people choose the side of those who would put them in jail simply because of who they are? Because they have been taught that Palestinians, including Hamas, are an oppressed brown victim class, and that their freedom-fighting "resistance" against their oppressive, white, US-backed colonizers in Israel is a righteous cause with which to stand in solidarity, in other words, "Strength is Unity." This is because socialism disguised as wokeness has taught them that.

It couldn't be further from the truth if you tried! Dissension is the path to finding true strength. DISSENSION is to Socialism just like Kryptonite is to Superman. They cannot have people who disagree with what they are teaching their followers because their control is based on the idea that everyone is united, and they are willing to use force and even death to achieve unity in their group. The illusion of unity gives them total control, both physically and mentally. That's the situation playing out in the Democrat party.

I notice that more conservatives are totally fine with dissension, while liberals are more concerned with unity. This is primarily due to the fact that liberals think predominantly with their hearts before giving any consideration to using their intellect.

The unification of the parties is a bigger priority than unification of the people. I think this may be where I part ways with your interpretation of things, Grubby Pigeon.

While strength in unity is obviously a priority, I think that the unity begins to divide as you move further away from the top of the pyramid. I believe that separation is intentional. For example, I think that McConnell, Pelosi, Schumer, Newsom, and Romney are all a cabal in practice. I do not see any differences in any of them. They are all aligned with a power structure that spends, borrows and wars with reckless abandon. Read that carefully, you Hawkeyed Cassowary. These folks are shameless about spending, killing, and running a grift on the treasury and Street but they are all perfectly aligned, vested and conscientiously working toward a centralized power structure for their cabal.


^^^^^ That is not at all schizo or pathological or contradictory. That is normal human behavior that is institutionalized.

As for the unity schtick, you have excluded the most important part of that so-called unity. There must be unity in factions. There is unity in factions. Everything must fall within those factions so that the sullied will fight amongst themselves, rather than against the grifting echelon. It does not ********* matter what the topic is, as long as the dirty plebs fight amongst themselves. This is why putting political foes on trial for garbage nonsense in a democrat enclave court with Judge Jack Torrance and DA Alex Forrest makes so much sense. The process will not matter as long as the plebs take sides. Gag orders for one side do not matter, as long as it feeds the plebs their daily allowance. Look at this thread! Trump is already guilty in this trial, but crickets on the content relevant to the process. Why? Because the allegiance and solidarity among the sullied factions is more important than the validity of the process.

[Mayan_Elephant]

One of the most significant contrasts between my liberal friends and my conservative friends...

Somehow I question whether you actually have any "liberal" friends. If so, you certainly don't listen to them in any reasonable way, like a friend would.

Do all of your friends self-identify as either "conservative" or "liberal?" Because I have very few friends who put themselves into either category. Some tend to vote for one party or the other, but mostly they're just normal, well-rounded people who don't feel the need to jump up on a stump and start lecturing about the evils of the world at the drop of the hat. Some of them support LGBTQ rights AND gun rights. Some of them are pro-abortion but strong on border control. I have a Pagan friend who worships Odin and a General Authority friend. I love both of them dearly because they are both wonderful people. I have prepper friends and gay and transgender friends. All great people. I wish more self-proclaimed liberals and conservatives would step away from the echo chamber forums, turn off the talk radio, and get out in the world and just immerse themselves in real people, rather than promoting hurtful stereotypes to generate more hate. We have enough hate.

I think I started my post before you posted this.

I would add that I have gay and trans friends who are hard core fiscal conservatives and who despise the condescension of the democratic party. I have gay friends that have much cooler AR-15's than me. My gay brother has the coolest lever action rifle in our family collection.

When I explain to my self-identified liberal AF college professor friend that I will absolutely never ever participate in a farcical so-called election where ballots are mass mailed and then collected all willy-nilly in the mail or in a drop box and counted only after prior information has already been gathered - he totally agrees with my logic. It comes down to this, really - would he publish a report based on research with the same level of controls and known flaws? No, he would not. Would he put his name on a paper if someone else published the crappy research and if the outcome of the research was beneficial? No. So why would he put his name on an election that has shoddy controls? Because Trump is a piece of shit, etc. - ya know, team player.

This is why we talk about signs on doors and janky ass trials and throwing meme writers in jail and why people post their pronouns and Ukraine flags. Because even very smart and very empathetic people are willing to shit on the process if it means the team gets a point. Elections are not won or lost based on the candidate, they are won and lost based on the divisions among the peasants. So F*** Yous Dirty Bird and Hagoth, let's fight, it will make Gavin happy.

[Hagoth]

So F*** Yous Dirty Bird and Hagoth, let's fight, it will make Gavin happy.

As Tiny Tim said, "F*** us, every one!'

I don't enjoy fighting. I'm a conflict avoider by nature but I have a hard time swallowing what from my perspective sounds like bullshit. That doesn't mean my perspective is right, but it's all I got for now. I'm trying to enlarge it. I broke out of a VERY bigoted, conservative mindset and found a larger, much less scary universe of possibilities beyond it. I like the saying, "we are all inside a box. The instructions for getting out of the box are written on the outside of the box." As long as we are contended to stay in the box nothing will ever change, and it might require dramatic and shocking-to-the-core events to pop our heads outl.

Meanwhile...
I have a gay friend who was the first person to win a lawsuit against a religious gay conversion therapy organization. He said he came to the realization that there really is a "gay agenda" (in terms of lobbyists and organizations) and he decided to go around all of their years-long efforts to legislate new laws and just take advantage of the existing laws, because these holy men were breaking the law and sexually abusing vulnerable kids, even though they were doing it in the name of God. He won and set a precedent.

[Hagoth]

Apologies to Dirty Bird. I have to admit that I don't always read everything you write. I usually get about half way in and this happens:

[Dirty Bird]

Apologies to Dirty Bird. I have to admit that I don't always read everything you write. I usually get about half way in and this happens:

That's your cognitive bias kickin' in. It can be a real bxxxh to deal with.

[Mayan_Elephant]

He said he came to the realization that there really is a "gay agenda" (in terms of lobbyists and organizations) and he decided to go around all of their years-long efforts to legislate new laws and just take advantage of the existing laws, because these holy men were breaking the law and sexually abusing vulnerable kids, even though they were doing it in the name of God. He won and set a precedent.

I have heard similar stories, Hagoth. Interesting that you have had a gallery view of this. Congratulations and well done. That is not a coincidence that you know this person and that you have friendship.

I broke out of a VERY bigoted, conservative mindset and found a larger, much less scary universe of possibilities beyond it. I like the saying, "we are all inside a box.

You are describing Plato's cave allegory.

Dirty Bird is describing a scenario that fits Plato's cave allegory.

While you may hear blah, blah, blah. You two are describing the exact same damn thing. I am curious but not super invested in which cave is better or which cave has the best shadows. I tried that already. That didn't work out for me so much. I am more invested, presently, in seeing how the shadows are made.

[Hagoth]

While you may hear blah, blah, blah. You two are describing the exact same damn thing.

Maybe so, but I hear a lot of mythology coming from DB, and I'm trying to focus on real people and situations, not on party lines or false labels. The reason I dislike Trump so much is not that he's Republican or Conservative (because he really isn't really either of those things, if you take his whole history into account), it's because he is so devisive and has done more than anyone in my memory to turn Americans against each other.

Please, please listen to this, folks. It is helping me modify my thinking, and it comes from a BYU-I professor no less. Really fascinating. And helpful for me in understanding some of my biases. Maybe it will do the same for others.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yHv009kiIug

[Mayan_Elephant]

if you take his whole history into account), it's because he is so devisive and has done more than anyone in my memory to turn Americans against each other.

I will listen later. Have not done so yet.

Regarding the point above - you have some heavy lifting to do to get me to agree to that or to even see the point. He MAY have given a voice to a bunch of Americans that you do not like or have a bitch with. But hell no that he has done more than anyone. He has absolutely not done more than Soros, Zuckerberg, Dorsey, Page, Brin, Murdoch, Pelosi, Schumer, McConnell, and a metric shit ton more.

Did Trump opportunistically take the reins? OH YES!!!! He could where nobody else appeared to want it or have the capacity to do it. Did he turn Americans against each other? NO! He absolutely did not. That was already happening or had happened. What did Trump actually do? He said, metaphorically and literally - "I reject your conditions, here are mine." He said, metaphorically and literally, "I will reject their conditions on your behalf, and give them your conditions."

He is absolutely not responsible for dividing Americans - he is responsible for rejecting the terms and conditions proposed. And that, is why, he is getting more popular. An electrician in Omaha can't tell the CIA and McConnell to F off - Trump can. Romney and the GOP want us to all just get along and go along with whatever the uniparty wants for us. Trump is the antithesis of that nonsense. He is not the cause. He did not do this - he just took the opportunity as it was offered.

[Hagoth]

He is absolutely not responsible for dividing Americans

Nope, I cannot agree with you on that. Not for a moment.

[Mayan_Elephant]

He is absolutely not responsible for dividing Americans

Nope, I cannot agree with you on that. Not for a moment.

I understand. And perhaps you can see where the divide lies.

If Hillary says that half the country belongs in a basket of deplorables, and Trump rejects the assertion. Is he causing the divide? If CNN and the NYT spreads hoax bullshit about a criminal collusion involving double agent spies to discredit Trump, and Trump calls CNN and the NYT fake news and rejects the hoax, who is actually dividing the country? When unsolicited ballots are mailed out in mass and then counted after dark, who is dividing the country?

I understand your position. I get it. I just flat out do not go along with it. Trump came along in 2016. The divide was EXTREME before he came along. It was ridiculous. The propaganda and divide coming out of the Gulf War was beyond the pale. Trump did not invent BLM protests. Trump did not create the censorship related to the Hunter laptop. Trump did not say that if you aint voting for Biden then you aint black. Trump did not start a war.

The suggestion that Trump "has done more than anyone in [your] memory to turn Americans against each other" says more about your memory than Trump. The reason Trump is popular is because, like him or love him, he loves the spotlight and the show and he is shining a light on the media and putting on his own show. Despite the douchebaggery and pussified bullshit of Romney, there is absolutely nothing valiant or lovely about submitting to the lies, divisions, insults, and condescension heaped on Americans. Trump has decided to do just the opposite and be the spectacle hitting back at these conditions. He did NOT do more than anyone else to turn Americans against each other.