NOM

What's killing the church?

My answer would be short and sweet: Reality, truth, and uncorrelated information.

Really: The internet/information age is to mormonism, what the printing press was to catholicism.



The Stig's answer works really well too.

Red Ryder wrote: ↑Mon Oct 30, 2017 8:31 amrather complaining that she could only go and do 3 names. She complained because she has 10 family names that she was hoping to get done in one visit but now has to go multiple times.

I wonder when this started? Every time I've gone to do initiatory work, they gave a minimum of 5 names. If they weren't swamped with people wanting to do names, you could do 15 if you wanted to.

Give It Time wrote: ↑Thu Nov 02, 2017 5:02 pm

2bizE wrote: ↑Thu Nov 02, 2017 4:57 pm

Give It Time wrote: ↑Mon Oct 30, 2017 4:41 pm I think my building is being kept colder, this year, due to budget cuts. As a solo mom, I really can't afford to get sick. As I contemplate church and how to dress and shivering for 1 - 3 hours, I just might decide to let discretion be the better part of valor and choose to stay warm, at home, rather than go to a building where at least a few people will be carrying whatever is going around and my body is too busy fighting to stay warm to fight off whatever infection is in the air.

I can just hear the criticisms of the hard core and how our pioneer ancestors suffered and so can we. Fine. Be my guest. I'm going to stay home and warm with a nice cup of tea.



I very much feel this way, as well. I would rather just read, listen to or watch the talks on my own time, I don't feel the need to experience them again in SM, RS/PH, VT/HT.

I think you if you went with warm clothes and a scarf and a cup of Earl Grey that might send a message

I agree and I will be sure to take some TSM approved shortbread cookies.

Except you would have to drink Earl Grey. Gross.

I've developed a taste for Earl Grey with a little warm milk.

People letting themselves read what the church has actively been hiding is killing the church.

Reports of the church's death have been greatly exaggerated......in my area, anyway.

My TBM wife commented last week at church how few people are in attendance. I think this is happening in many more areas of the church.

GoodBoy wrote: ↑Thu Nov 02, 2017 1:10 pm I've got a fever... and the only cure... is more cow bell!!

Actually, more cow bell would probably help! I've been to a couple of gospel singing and jamming christian churches in the past and that's the type of music and feeling that generates joy and fun. Standing up with all your friends and neighbors in the celebration of music that gets you on your feet and clapping your hands. Compare that to the hymns the LDS church offers? If we had a good band of gospel musicians and singers, I might still be attending. But thanks to our eugenics and bigotry past, we never embraced our brothers and sisters of color and their culture and missed out on that opportunity. It's a bunch of old boring white guys spoon feeding us their correlated boring narrative.

I don't believe the church will every completely die. There are too many humans that are more than happy to be told everything they need to do, to be treated like little children their whole lives and to give up their money to stay in it. There are also too many men that get off on the authority structure. IMO: The church will shrink over time to a much smaller number of elect copper tops.

lostinmiddlemormonism wrote: ↑Mon Oct 30, 2017 11:27 am A similar situation occurs in Mexico where the church has added 54 units of the church since 2007, and average of 5.4/year. At the same time the church claims to have added 295,118 members or approximately 29,511 members/year. That would equate to Wards with a truly staggering 5465 members/ward! Not even remotely likely.

I have frequently heard in the past that South and Central America are places of fast growth for the church. I think we can see now that lots of people have been baptized, but retention is horrible.

Mexico has 34 missions right now. The average size of a mission worldwide is 158 missionaries. So there are probably more than 5000 missionaries in Mexico. At the end of 2016 there were 22,293 more members of the church than at the end of 2015. The number of wards and branches increased by only one.

In 2017 so far in Mexico there has been a net loss of 25 wards and branches in Mexico. Not a great ROI for the 5k+ missionaries.

Here are the unit changes so far this year according to http://ldsunitgrowth.blogspot.com:

Juchitan Mexico Stake: Cristobal Colon, Hidalgo, and Santo Domingo 2nd Wards discontinued
Juchitan Mexico Las Flores Stake: Cheguigo, Juarez, and Matamoros Wards discontinued
Salina Cruz Mexico Stake: Guiengola, Miramar, and Salina Cruz Wards discontinued
Chilpancingo Mexico Stake: Galeana Ward discontinued
Chilpancingo Mexico Stake: Heroico and Los Sauces Wards discontinued
Ciudad Obregon Mexico Yaqui Stake: Deportiva Ward discontinued
Culiacan Mexico Stake: Los Pinos, Nuevo Culiacan, and Industrial Wards discontinued
Culiacan Mexico Humaya Stake: Guadalupe and La Conquista Wards discontinued
Culiacan Mexico Tamazula Stake: Amistad and Colhuacan Wards discontinued
Mazatlan Mexico Stake: Galaxia Ward discontinued
Mazatlan Mexico West Stake: Del Valle, Lopez Mateos, and Vincente Guerrero Wards discontinued
Nogales Mexico District: La Mesa Branch created
Puebla Mexico Citlaltepetl District: Tlacoyalco Branch created
San Luis Potosi Mexico Benito Juarez Stake: Industrias Ward created
Tijuana Mexico Central Stake: Francisco Villa and Hidalgo Wards discontinued
Tijuana Mexico Florido Stake: Las Fuentes Ward discontinued
Tijuana Mexico Otay Stake: Las Torres Branch created; El Lago and Postal Wards discontinued
Puebla Mexico Fuertes Stake: Loreto and Nacionales Unidas Wards discontinued
Puebla Mexico Valsequillo Stake: Universidad and Xilotzingo Wards discontinued
Izucar de Matamoros Mexico District: Tepeojuma Branch created
Los Tuxtla Mexico District: San Andres Primero de Mayo Branch discontinued
Mexico City Prados Stake: Pensamiento Ward discontinued
Chetumal Mexico Stake: Calderitas Branch created
Puebla Mexico Citlaltepetl District: Grajales and Tlachichuca Branches created
Puebla Mexico La Libertad Stake: Los Angeles Ward discontinued
Puebla Mexico La Paz Stake: San Pablo del Monte Branch discontinued
Nogales Mexico District: Nogales 4th Branch created
Puebla Mexico Nealtican Stake: Bugambilias and Carranza Wards created
Chapala Mexico District: Santa Rosa Branch created
Linares Mexico District: Allende Branch created
Mexico City Meyehualco Stake: Juarez Ward discontinued
Puebla Mexico Cholula Stake: Coronango Ward created; Santa Isabel Branch discontinued
Puebla Mexico La Paz Stake: Alfa and Esmeralda Wards discontinued
Puebla Mexico Nealtican North Stake: Prolongacion and Zaragoza Wards created
Queretaro Mexico Stake: Valle Ward created
Oaxaca Mexico Monte Alban Stake: Montoya Ward created
Tijuana Mexico Florido Stake: Las Villas Ward discontinued
Comitan Mexico District: Flor de Mayo Branch created
Mexico Torreon Mission: Santiago Papasquiaro Branch discontinued