NOM

Mormorrisey wrote: ↑Thu Apr 04, 2019 9:11 am
I think Hagoth mentioned it on another post, but the POX was REVELATION, wasn't it? So God changed his mind three and a half years later? What gives? My goodness, this is just crazy. I'm so glad I got off this train of stupid.

I'm glad they did the right thing, but it's a day late and a dollar short, like the temple changes. I don't think it will stop the outflow of members, though.

Oh yeah... 100% revelation.

Nelson 2016: "And then we watch the Lord move upon the President of the Church to proclaim the Lord’s will. This prophetic process was followed in 2012 with the change in minimum age for missionaries and again with the recent additions to the Church’s handbook, [...] And then, when the Lord inspired His prophet, President Thomas S. Monson, to declare the mind of the Lord and the will of the Lord, each of us during that sacred moment felt a spiritual confirmation. It was our privilege as Apostles to sustain what had been revealed to President Monson. Revelation from the Lord to His servants is a sacred process, and so is your privilege of receiving personal revelation."

There is no getting around it.

Red Ryder wrote: ↑Thu Apr 04, 2019 8:38 am This means RMN is not healthy and has a poor chance of living another year.

Oaks is positioning himself to take over the throne, marry Wendy, and plan his world religious dominance. Right after changing the name of the church back to Mormon!

Oaks is still a douche bag.

The deseret news article and comments is fascinating to read. Especially this part where they point out prior screwups to justify this one:

Some church policies have changed quickly. For example, the church dropped Jesus Christ from its name in 1834, then restored it in 1838. Church leaders also changed the length of missions for men from 24 months to 18 months in April 1982. The First Presidency reinstituted 24-month missions in November 1984.

To quote brother Jake: "So you see, it's no big deal!"

moksha wrote: ↑Thu Apr 04, 2019 9:17 amA couple of months after this dreadful policy, in January 2016, Elder Russell M. Nelson declared the dreadful policy to be a direct revelation received by ailing President Monson. So this would be another "guess God changed his mind on the revelation" and so the Brethren are blameless for a horrendously bad policy.

Amazing! it only takes 3.5 years for a church leader to get thrown under the bus.


I wonder what the REAL reason for this is. Changes of this magnitude do not happen just because in Mormonism. Is the membership hemorrhaging really that bad? (Based on the fact they are not reporting statistics, them maybe.) Is there something else more powerful driving this? Hate crimes litigation? Anti-discrimination legislation in the works? Or is it RMN's ego's to appear to be prophetic (Something to get Wendy all hot and bothered?)


Finally, I know a couple people who were excommunicated because of this. Since they are no longer in apostasy, will the be asked back? Any sort of apology? I know the answer, but a guy can hope.

I'm going fishing next year for King Salmon in Alaska. I expect to see some really big flip-flops while landing a 45 pounder.

But those will look miniscule compared to this.

Seriously, can anyone doubt any longer that the church caves to social pressure??? The Q15 are RUNNING SCARED....

Accidental 2nd post

I expect to see a half dozen podcasts about this subject will appear on my phone in the next couple of days. And yes, I will listen to all of them...

Here is another article from lds.org Church News. Mostly the same stuff:

https://www.lds.org/church/news/policy- ... s?lang=eng

.

And... KAH-POW!!!
(Everyone just forgot about all the other GC rumors like changes to WoW and missions!)

Magic!

Im stuck at a warehouse waiting for a pickup so I did a super fast post on the reversal before the laptop battery died.

If you're bored, you can read it at https://www.ldsdiscussions.com/blog-reversal

I didn't get a chance to put anything about the harm it caused, but focused on how this exposes the idea of revelation and spiritual confirmation.

My prediction of how this will be spun by some members:

The saints were not ready to live this law because of their worldliness; too many of were too sympathetic to The Gays. It will be reinstated once we have properly repented.

Hagoth wrote: ↑Thu Apr 04, 2019 12:51 pm My prediction of how this will be spun by some members:

The saints were not ready to live this law because of their worldliness; too many of were too sympathetic to The Gays. It will be reinstated once we have properly repented.

I've seen this and I've seen them say this was an Abrahamic test.

It's so sad I can't even laugh at it.

jfro18 wrote: ↑Thu Apr 04, 2019 1:09 pm

Hagoth wrote: ↑Thu Apr 04, 2019 12:51 pm My prediction of how this will be spun by some members:

The saints were not ready to live this law because of their worldliness; too many of were too sympathetic to The Gays. It will be reinstated once we have properly repented.

I've seen this and I've seen them say this was an Abrahamic test.

It's so sad I can't even laugh at it.

I thought that people are going to spin this as a test to see who follows the prophet and who jumps ship. All those silly people who felt this policy was unfair just proved their lack of faith in the prophet. Those wth real faith trusted that the policy was from God even if they did not understand it and they stayed n the church. Puke🤮🤮

Jfro and Alas, that makes total sense and it makes me incredibly sad that people might think they are so important that God would damage other people's lives just to see if they are faithful enough to defy moral decency.

When I heard the news my first response was "Hallelujah!" My second response was, "Those BASTARDS!"

Well, at least they have given us a window into how modern revelation works. It is a manifestation of personal prejudice that can change to appease social pressure. We thank thee oh God for a prophet to confuse us in these latter days.

And I have another proof to add to my list of evidence that the church is in apostasy.

Given the list I compiled in another thread with the 20 plus signs the church is in apostasy and now this fiasco today repealing the ban on children of gay couples being prohibited from baptism back in 2016 as well as aligning homosexuality with heterosexual sins, I have to remind myself that the church isn't really in apostasy because the church was created by a con man and fraud, thus, it is illegitimate as a church, especially since it is a corporation first and foremost. Thus, how is a real estate corporation which masquerades as a church that was founded by a con man... in apostasy? I'm almost beginning to wonder if the LDS church is the great and abominable one mentioned in the Bible?

alas wrote: ↑Thu Apr 04, 2019 1:17 pm

jfro18 wrote: ↑Thu Apr 04, 2019 1:09 pm

Hagoth wrote: ↑Thu Apr 04, 2019 12:51 pm My prediction of how this will be spun by some members:

The saints were not ready to live this law because of their worldliness; too many of were too sympathetic to The Gays. It will be reinstated once we have properly repented.

I've seen this and I've seen them say this was an Abrahamic test.

It's so sad I can't even laugh at it.

I thought that people are going to spin this as a test to see who follows the prophet and who jumps ship. All those silly people who felt this policy was unfair just proved their lack of faith in the prophet. Those wth real faith trusted that the policy was from God even if they did not understand it and they stayed n the church. Puke🤮🤮

It's kind of amazing how often cognitive dissonance and fear are resolved using pride.

I haven't scanned too much on faithful reddit, but the little bits I've seen there and comments on Twitter make me want to jump off a bridge.

While I'm sure some might leave the church over this, because if you can look at the implications it's pretty damned obvious they're not men of God, but I also assume it won't be a ton since it is reversing something bad.

But that said... I'm shocked at how many are calling this revelation and how they reply with stuff like "PRESIDENT NELSON, I SUSTAIN YOU!"

It's so sickening to see, and then I have to realize that DW probably is in that camp and that makes me depressed and angry because I told her a year ago the Nov 15 policy would be reversed once social pressure became too big for them to handle it... I thought it would be the next generation, but anyone could see this would happen as the idiots at the top died off.

This is an angering one - people DIED over this policy and for NOTHING. And when people mention that suicides occurred, the TBMs on social media claim it was elevation that did it or the fact that people wouldn't let up about the policy rather than the policy itself. I feel like I'm living in an alternate universe.

I kind of think we are missing something in all of this - here is clear and irrefutable evidence that the Brethren think they can say or do anything and the members will accept it. I know it's kind of cliche to reference "We are at war with Eastasia. We've always been at war with Eastasia", but it's really not too far off the mark. The Church receives a revelation and three and a half years later receives a revelation nullifying the previous revelation, and everyone is supposed to rejoice that we have the gift of modern revelation. In 1984, the crowd cheers upon hearing that Oceania is now at war with Eastasia, much as members are now cheering about the wonders of modern revelation, and the old revelation goes down the memory hole and everyone engages in massive levels of doublethink.

The Brethren think they can jerk members around - down is up, no wait down is down, white is black, no wait white is white. And they are right, that's exactly what they can do with members. In the book Going Clear: Scientology and the Prison of Belief, it describes a time when David Miscavige made some Scientologists play a game of musical chairs to "Bohemian Rhapsody" for the privilege to stay in "The Hole". The Brethren think they have that same kind of "stand up sit down" power over the members, and they have never been so blatant and obvious about using it before.

And they knew what the rest of the world will think of this change - and they didn't care. Kind of odd that they were so unconcerned about the bad press this would inevitably get, but they also know members will follow them no matter what.

They think we are a bunch of suckers.

Not Buying It wrote: ↑Fri Apr 05, 2019 5:26 am They think we are a bunch of suckers.

I guess that must come with being human. If you want badly enough to belong to a community you become a willing sucker. Here's a simple breakdown of the events that should be obvious:

1) Either Russel Nelson lied about the November '15 revelation...

or

2) He told the truth then and now he is disobeying God.

Therefore:

He cannot be trusted.