The Cost of a Janitor

[moksha]

[If you are disabled, elderly, or permanently handicapped in any way - there is no support for you from the church.

Do you think that comes from the LDS interpretation of Jesus's message to help, or from LDS political conservatism "to be not of the world but rather emulated dog eat dog in the world"?

[Mayan_Elephant]

[If you are disabled, elderly, or permanently handicapped in any way - there is no support for you from the church.

Do you think that comes from the LDS interpretation of Jesus's message to help, or from LDS political conservatism "to be not of the world but rather emulated dog eat dog in the world"?

What makes that LDS conservatism? I realize it is just a silly metaphor. Maybe you could explain how it makes sense or how it is conservatism at all. Thanks.

[Angel]

[If you are disabled, elderly, or permanently handicapped in any way - there is no support for you from the church.

Do you think that comes from the LDS interpretation of Jesus's message to help, or from LDS political conservatism "to be not of the world but rather emulated dog eat dog in the world"?

On one hand, self-reliance is preached - don't ask us for anything is preached. The church doesn't want self reliability though, it wants everyone to rely on church - follow church - not yourself. Dependent servants who need no maintenance.

@Mayan_Elephant

Self-reliance, I love the concept - everyone needs to take care of themselves, no deadbeats, no freeloaders. Economically self-reliant, as well as emotionally,, spiritually, physically self reliant.. the church wants emotional and spiritual dependent. They do not support true self-reliance - and teach women to be 100% dependent which is really horrible.

Where I diverge from conservative mindset, I do believe all schools should have equal funding, I believe kids are a national resource worth taking care of, support public education (not biased religious education), and yes - am a curriculum chair, have been on war path, have changed the core etc. I also support Healthcare for those who need it, support for disabilities.

Charity/ public health responsibilities = taking care of those who genuinely cannot help themselves.

Enable/doormat = taking care of those who are able to take care of themselves.

It seems like liberals want to take care of everyone regardless of their abilities, and conservatives don't want to take care of anyone except military...

I'm independent - have been right in the middle of these political battles.

When spearheading changing the core (required classes) at my school, my friend/colleagues/office neighbor changed their job because of the changes - students no longer required to take his class. He hugged me on the way out - we're still friends. I've had students who abuse the system and others who have been saved by the system. It's a tangled mess for sure.

Until private citizens voluntarily take care of one another, the vast majority of welfare will continue to be secular. It's just human nature to not really take care of another.

"I'll say a pray for you" is about as far as it gets.

I do what I can, am surrounded by it all, but I have my own kids and family too.

Education. That piece of paper. Education is what really saves people. I've seen entire generational long poverty cycles turned around. Just had a past student txt last week. She went from living in a mechanics shop with son, to living in an old school bus - to now calling recruiting other students to work for her. She now makes more than I do, and offered me a job too haha. I told her I'm not in it for $$, but did send other students her way.

Fafsa is needed and benefits this country. Welfare - done right - is needed. Some kind of healthcare is needed.

[Cnsl1]

[If you are disabled, elderly, or permanently handicapped in any way - there is no support for you from the church.

Do you think that comes from the LDS interpretation of Jesus's message to help, or from LDS political conservatism "to be not of the world but rather emulated dog eat dog in the world"?

On one hand, self-reliance is preached - don't ask us for anything is preached. The church doesn't want self reliability though, it wants everyone to rely on church - follow church - not yourself. Dependent servants who need no maintenance.

@Mayan_Elephant

Self-reliance, I love the concept - everyone needs to take care of themselves, no deadbeats, no freeloaders. Economically self-reliant, as well as emotionally,, spiritually, physically self reliant.. the church wants emotional and spiritual dependent. They do not support true self-reliance - and teach women to be 100% dependent which is really horrible.

Where I diverge from conservative mindset, I do believe all schools should have equal funding, I believe kids are a national resource worth taking care of, support public education (not biased religious education), and yes - am a curriculum chair, have been on war path, have changed the core etc. I also support Healthcare for those who need it, support for disabilities.

Charity/ public health responsibilities = taking care of those who genuinely cannot help themselves.

Enable/doormat = taking care of those who are able to take care of themselves.

It seems like liberals want to take care of everyone regardless of their abilities, and conservatives don't want to take care of anyone except military...

I'm independent - have been right in the middle of these political battles.

When spearheading changing the core (required classes) at my school, my friend/colleagues/office neighbor changed their job because of the changes - students no longer required to take his class. He hugged me on the way out - we're still friends. I've had students who abuse the system and others who have been saved by the system. It's a tangled mess for sure.

Until private citizens voluntarily take care of one another, the vast majority of welfare will continue to be secular. It's just human nature to not really take care of another.

"I'll say a pray for you" is about as far as it gets.

I do what I can, am surrounded by it all, but I have my own kids and family too.

Education. That piece of paper. Education is what really saves people. I've seen entire generational long poverty cycles turned around. Just had a past student txt last week. She went from living in a mechanics shop with son, to living in an old school bus - to now calling recruiting other students to work for her. She now makes more than I do, and offered me a job too haha. I told her I'm not in it for $$, but did send other students her way.

Fafsa is needed and benefits this country. Welfare - done right - is needed. Some kind of healthcare is needed.

Amen, Angel. I agree with you. Well said.

[Hagoth]

Charity/ public health responsibilities = taking care of those who genuinely cannot help themselves.

Enable/doormat = taking care of those who are able to take care of themselves.

It seems like liberals want to take care of everyone regardless of their abilities, and conservatives don't want to take care of anyone except military...

Yes, this can be another of those black-and-white false dichotomies. Too much enabling can be a problem, absolutely, but there is a common misconception that welfare is always a one-way door to a bottomless pit. The truth is that a lot of people find themselves in a position where they need help for a while. If they can't get the right kind of help they can end up in a tailspin.

I took a tour of Alcatraz. They have a rule there that says something like: You are entitled to three meals a day, clothing, a place to sleep, and healthcare. Anything beyond that is up to you." It struck me that maybe that could be a good rule of thumb for Americans in general, not just our most violent felons.

[alas]

Charity/ public health responsibilities = taking care of those who genuinely cannot help themselves.

Enable/doormat = taking care of those who are able to take care of themselves.

It seems like liberals want to take care of everyone regardless of their abilities, and conservatives don't want to take care of anyone except military...

Yes, this can be another of those black-and-white false dichotomies. Too much enabling can be a problem, absolutely, but there is a common misconception that welfare is always a one-way door to a bottomless pit. The truth is that a lot of people find themselves in a position where they need help for a while. If they can't get the right kind of help they can end up in a tailspin.

I took a tour of Alcatraz. They have a rule there that says something like: You are entitled to three meals a day, clothing, a place to sleep, and healthcare. Anything beyond that is up to you." It struck me that maybe that could be a good rule of thumb for Americans in general, not just our most violent felons.

About conservatives not wanting to take care of anything but the military, let me qualify that for you. Republican want more and more military *equipment.* They are crap about taking care of military *people.* The cuts to our health care have come under Republican congresses, the increases in military pay have come under democratic congresses. There was a tshirt I saw in the social work department that show a bunch of tanks and said, “Reagan’s social programs.” Because he was cutting funding to mental health care, and moving all that $$$ over to military war machines. Yup, Republicans talk all pro soldier, then fail to fund the VA. OK, disabled Vets is a pet peeve of mine because my son in law is not getting the medical care he needs. Us retired military can get by with paying more for our care. But the disabled vets cannot. So, I am not as pissed about my insurance for care going up and up and up, while hubby was promised total medical care for life, but I am pissed about the promises to the Vets being broken.

[alas]

This discussion has become very political for a post of Doctrinal Discussions.

[Angel]

You are entitled to three meals a day, clothing, a place to sleep, and healthcare. Anything beyond that is up to you."

... and education - need to add education to that list, the pursuit of happiness and self-reliance.

[Mayan_Elephant]

Charity/ public health responsibilities = taking care of those who genuinely cannot help themselves.

Enable/doormat = taking care of those who are able to take care of themselves.

It seems like liberals want to take care of everyone regardless of their abilities, and conservatives don't want to take care of anyone except military...

Yes, this can be another of those black-and-white false dichotomies. Too much enabling can be a problem, absolutely, but there is a common misconception that welfare is always a one-way door to a bottomless pit. The truth is that a lot of people find themselves in a position where they need help for a while. If they can't get the right kind of help they can end up in a tailspin.

I took a tour of Alcatraz. They have a rule there that says something like: You are entitled to three meals a day, clothing, a place to sleep, and healthcare. Anything beyond that is up to you." It struck me that maybe that could be a good rule of thumb for Americans in general, not just our most violent felons.

About conservatives not wanting to take care of anything but the military, let me qualify that for you. Republican want more and more military *equipment.* They are crap about taking care of military *people.* The cuts to our health care have come under Republican congresses, the increases in military pay have come under democratic congresses. There was a tshirt I saw in the social work department that show a bunch of tanks and said, “Reagan’s social programs.” Because he was cutting funding to mental health care, and moving all that $$$ over to military war machines. Yup, Republicans talk all pro soldier, then fail to fund the VA. OK, disabled Vets is a pet peeve of mine because my son in law is not getting the medical care he needs. Us retired military can get by with paying more for our care. But the disabled vets cannot. So, I am not as pissed about my insurance for care going up and up and up, while hubby was promised total medical care for life, but I am pissed about the promises to the Vets being broken.

This is not a Republican problem, it is a neocon problem made up of Republicans and Democrats.

The VA needs and deserves better.