NOM

Posted: **Mon Feb 27, 2017 10:59 am**

Here is my ignorant, uninformed summary of the meeting between RyanandCarinne and their stake leaders:

Young Mormon Family: Is There Room for Us in this Church?

Stake Leaders: No.

Young Mormon Family: Wait, what?

Stake Leaders: OK, we would largely like you to stick around, but stop talking about these questions publicly.

Young Mormon Family: But we have these questions about history and doctrine that could affect our spirituality!

Stake Leaders: Right, stop doing that.

Young Mormon Family: Yes, but what about.....

Stake Leaders: Let me cut you off right there. No matter what the answer turns out to be, you can be assured that "the LDS church is true" will be the correct conclusion. So we're just jumping to that step.

Young Mormon Family: But we are concerned about...

Stake Leaders: Stop thinking about that. You should come to a personal testimony of your questions, as long as it concludes with "the LDS church is true."

Young Mormon Family: OK, but what if we conclude that the church might not....

Stake Leaders: Any other conclusion is wrong. The LDS church is true.

Posted: **Mon Feb 27, 2017 11:11 am**

Corsair wrote: ↑Mon Feb 27, 2017 10:59 am Here is my ignorant, uninformed summary of the meeting between RyanandCarinne and their stake leaders:

Young Mormon Family: Is There Room for Us in this Church?

Stake Leaders: No.

Young Mormon Family: Wait, what?

Stake Leaders: OK, we would largely like you to stick around, but stop talking about these questions publicly.

Young Mormon Family: But we have these questions about history and doctrine that could affect our spirituality!

Stake Leaders: Right, stop doing that.

Young Mormon Family: Yes, but what about.....

Stake Leaders: Let me cut you off right there. No matter what the answer turns out to be, you can be assured that "the LDS church is true" will be the correct conclusion. So we're just jumping to that step.

Young Mormon Family: But we are concerned about...

Stake Leaders: Stop thinking about that. You should come to a personal testimony of your questions, as long as it concludes with "the LDS church is true."

Young Mormon Family: OK, but what if we conclude that the church might not....

Stake Leaders: Any other conclusion is wrong. The LDS church is true.

Let me add:

Corsair wrote: ↑Mon Feb 27, 2017 10:59 am Stake Leaders: OK, we would largely like you to stick around, but stop talking about these questions publicly.

Young Mormon Family: But we have these questions about history and doctrine that could affect our spirituality!

Stake Leaders: Right, stop doing that.

Young Mormon Family: Yes, but what about.....

Stake Leaders: You're asking the wrong questions.

Stake Leaders: Here's a list of "approved" questions that you may actually ask "out loud".

Then it's a continuation of Corsair's summary: Keep all of those other questions and answers to yourself, and tell everyone "The Church Is True™!"

Posted: **Mon Feb 27, 2017 1:33 pm**

Corsair wrote: ↑Mon Feb 27, 2017 10:59 am Here is my ignorant, uninformed summary of the meeting between RyanandCarinne and their stake leaders:

Young Mormon Family: Is There Room for Us in this Church?

Stake Leaders: No.

Young Mormon Family: Wait, what?

Stake Leaders: OK, we would largely like you to stick around, but stop talking about these questions publicly.

Young Mormon Family: But we have these questions about history and doctrine that could affect our spirituality!

Stake Leaders: Right, stop doing that.

Young Mormon Family: Yes, but what about.....

Stake Leaders: Let me cut you off right there. No matter what the answer turns out to be, you can be assured that "the LDS church is true" will be the correct conclusion. So we're just jumping to that step.

Young Mormon Family: But we are concerned about...

Stake Leaders: Stop thinking about that. You should come to a personal testimony of your questions, as long as it concludes with "the LDS church is true."

Young Mormon Family: OK, but what if we conclude that the church might not....

Stake Leaders: Any other conclusion is wrong. The LDS church is true.

And go home now....study the scriptures more....pray more....and attend the temple more. It's your fault that your faith is weakening.

Posted: **Mon Feb 27, 2017 2:05 pm**

RyanandCarinne wrote: ↑Sun Feb 26, 2017 7:07 pm Hi Everyone! We are so sorry for the long delay. We were completely overwhelmed with the amount of people that contacted us after our first video and then we felt strongly that we needed to get a second video done as soon as possible, so we haven’t had time to respond here. We still have a lot going on and feel we need to wait to respond to comments until later this week. We’ll check back here later this week and update you guys. Thank you so much for reaching out and being so friendly and supportive, it means the world to us. The biggest thing we’ve learned from doing these videos is there is a huge need for openness and discussion in the LDS church. There are so many people suffering silently and we believe it doesn’t need to be that way.

Thanks for checking in! I hope you guys stick around and keep posting and updating. I think you'd really love this board and I also think others could really benefit from hearing more from you!

Welcome to the board!

Posted: **Tue Feb 28, 2017 9:02 am**

I really enjoyed the first video from these guys, however after the second video, I was kind of scratching my head. In the second video they come across as TBMs that fully support the foundational doctrine. If this is the case, I don't know why there wouldn't be room for them.

Posted: **Tue Feb 28, 2017 11:00 am**

The biggest thing we’ve learned from doing these videos is there is a huge need for openness and discussion in the LDS church. There are so many people suffering silently and we believe it doesn’t need to be that way.

Absolutely true! Not everyone knows who to turn to when people are suffering, leadership is not the answer because they have their own marching orders. I look forward to hearing more!

Posted: **Tue Feb 28, 2017 11:43 am**

Corsair, your fake conversation reminded me very much of my experiences.

Church: We want you just the way you are

Me: I don't literally believe and lean towards Trinitarianism

Church: Well, you have to literally believe and not a Trinitarian

Me: So, you don't want me the way I am

Church: No, we actually do want you the way you are, just keep it silent

Me: OK, I'll keep it silent

Church: Do you literally believe yet?

Me: No

Church: GTFO

Posted: **Tue Feb 28, 2017 11:46 am**

The biggest thing we’ve learned from doing these videos is there is a huge need for openness and discussion in the LDS church. There are so many people suffering silently and we believe it doesn’t need to be that way.
Absolutely true! Not everyone knows who to turn to when people are suffering, leadership is not the answer because they have their own marching orders. I look forward to hearing more!

What do they want this "changed" church to look like? Changing to a new religious model sounds great, but fraught with organizational inertia, schisms, and the difficulty of knowing what the "true" church should look like. Rhetorically we were already the TRUE church so the radical act of moving towards the new true church seems very complicated project.

Posted: **Tue Feb 28, 2017 1:53 pm**

No need to make radical change to the LDS Church. Allowing folks like Ryan and Carinne to freely think and discover their own path is a good start. So what if they believe in Heavenly Mother? Does that make them less of a disciple? People should have their agency to believe AND talk about their beliefs. Whoever they share their beliefs with can make up their own mind if they are crazy or not. There is so much regulation on self thinking in the LDS church, it blocks real testimony and stunts the spiritual growth of people.

@Corsair, I don't think they are looking to start a church, move to another church or recruit people to go with them. I also don't see them wanting to change the church from the inside, other than hoping for more open minded members and leaders. They want leadership to leave them alone and let God inspire them without their interference. Oh course, that is a guess!

Posted: **Tue Feb 28, 2017 3:39 pm**

Love you guys! Good luck with it! Your boys are most important.

Posted: **Sun Mar 05, 2017 8:54 pm**

We met with our Stake President and Bishop on Wednesday night. They are amazing people and we are glad to be in their stake and ward. They didn't ask us to take our videos down, and we still have our recommends and membership. They don't want us to actively try to lead others out of the church with future videos etc, which we agree with. We're so glad we found this blog, you guys are awesome!

Posted: **Sun Mar 05, 2017 8:58 pm**

We've got to get our 3 boys to bed but if you're interested to see the drama that took place with family and friends when we posted the videos on our facebook page, you can see here

https://www.facebook.com/ryanncarinne.white

Posted: **Sun Mar 05, 2017 9:01 pm**

slk wrote: ↑Tue Feb 28, 2017 9:02 am I really enjoyed the first video from these guys, however after the second video, I was kind of scratching my head. In the second video they come across as TBMs that fully support the foundational doctrine. If this is the case, I don't know why there wouldn't be room for them."

SLK, Yeah, after our first video, we realized we made a lot of our TBM family and friends upset or scared of us, so the second video was definitely more directed toward TBM mindset to try and clarify for our loved ones. Our Beliefs PDF is still very similar to our original, but we've clarified and added some things we forgot.

Posted: **Mon Mar 06, 2017 9:08 am**

RyanandCarinne wrote: ↑Sun Mar 05, 2017 8:54 pm We met with our Stake President and Bishop on Wednesday night. They are amazing people and we are glad to be in their stake and ward. They didn't ask us to take our videos down, and we still have our recommends and membership. They don't want us to actively try to lead others out of the church with future videos etc, which we agree with. We're so glad we found this blog, you guys are awesome!

So the answer to your question: Is there room for us, is?

From your post, it seems that the answer is: There is room for you, as long as you stay quite, and stop asking questions?

Posted: **Mon Mar 06, 2017 10:40 am**

RyanandCarinne wrote: ↑Sun Mar 05, 2017 9:01 pm SLK, Yeah, after our first video, we realized we made a lot of our TBM family and friends upset or scared of us, so the second video was definitely more directed toward TBM mindset to try and clarify for our loved ones.

This made me sad when I read it. I think highly of you two and admire your courage in making the first video. It's too bad you have been affected by the reaction of others (fear or cog dis from family and friends). Please stay true to what you believe and don't allow them to cause you to back down or be silent.

It's just plain tough to voice anything different than the TBM "tow the line" rhetoric and stay active. It can be done, but you definitely alter how others view you and how you'll be treated by leaders and loved ones. That can be difficult to maneuver. If you spend some time reading on here, you'll find many in the same situation you're in and it might be interesting for you to read how they've dealt with it too.

I hope you can find a way to be happy and also remain true to what you now believe. Keep us updated and good luck!

************************************

Posted: **Mon Mar 06, 2017 11:22 am**

You guys have the missionary discussion voice down pat.

Posted: **Mon Mar 06, 2017 12:16 pm**

document wrote: ↑Tue Feb 28, 2017 11:43 am Corsair, your fake conversation reminded me very much of my experiences.

Church: We want you just the way you are

Me: I don't literally believe and lean towards Trinitarianism

Church: Well, you have to literally believe and not a Trinitarian

Me: So, you don't want me the way I am

Church: No, we actually do want you the way you are, just keep it silent

Me: OK, I'll keep it silent

Church: Do you literally believe yet?

Me: No

Church: GTFO

HAHAHAHA - Just catching up on this thread, this is hilarious. Literal LOL

Posted: **Mon Mar 06, 2017 12:25 pm**

RyanandCarinne wrote: ↑Sun Mar 05, 2017 8:54 pm We met with our Stake President and Bishop on Wednesday night. They are amazing people and we are glad to be in their stake and ward. They didn't ask us to take our videos down, and we still have our recommends and membership. They don't want us to actively try to lead others out of the church with future videos etc, which we agree with. We're so glad we found this blog, you guys are awesome!

Ryan and Carinne - In your video on your FB page, you mention you still believe in JS and the BoM. You mention a lot of the good that keeps you in. You're video is basically a mini-testimony as you see. In all sincerity, congratulations to you for finding your place in the church.

However, I have one question. I'm sure you're well aware of all the historicity problems, doctrinal/policy issues, etc. When you encounter a sticky situation, such as the BoM, how do you handle this? Do you try to rationalize the problems, ignore the troubling parts, or accept the problems and say "we just don't know yet?"

My question is sincere. My folks know of my status and many of the issues, yet they continue in orthodoxy. So I'm curious how you approach it.

Posted: **Mon Mar 06, 2017 7:10 pm**

FiveFingerMnemonic wrote: ↑Tue Feb 07, 2017 2:24 pm
moksha wrote: ↑Tue Feb 07, 2017 1:35 pm My thought is that 21st Century Mormons share the same pews as Dark Ages Mormons every Sunday. Out of respect for the Prime Directive of non-interference, most 21st Century Mormons avoid talking about issues related to the enlightenment and the scientific progress of their own age. The Dark Ages Mormons are not above burning one of their own at the Stake Center.
This is gold!

This is! I was eating dinner while reading this and almost spit out my youvetsi all over my shirt!

This is absolutely the perfect mindset and approach!

Posted: **Wed Mar 08, 2017 11:56 am**

RyanandCarinne wrote: ↑Sun Mar 05, 2017 8:54 pm We met with our Stake President and Bishop on Wednesday night. They are amazing people and we are glad to be in their stake and ward. They didn't ask us to take our videos down, and we still have our recommends and membership. They don't want us to actively try to lead others out of the church with future videos etc, which we agree with. We're so glad we found this blog, you guys are awesome!

I'm sad you guys won't do any more videos, but I'm very happy they aren't making you take your previous videos down. Maybe less is more in this situation. You can help more people in the church by staying in the church. Your videos will give courage to members, but won't scare them away because you guys are still members.

NOM

Young Mormon Family Asks: Is There Room for Us in this Church?

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Re: Young Mormon Family Asks: Is There Room for Us in this Church?

Re: Young Mormon Family Asks: Is There Room for Us in this Church?

Re: Young Mormon Family Asks: Is There Room for Us in this Church?

Re: Young Mormon Family Asks: Is There Room for Us in this Church?

Re: Young Mormon Family Asks: Is There Room for Us in this Church?

Re: Young Mormon Family Asks: Is There Room for Us in this Church?

Re: Young Mormon Family Asks: Is There Room for Us in this Church?

Re: Young Mormon Family Asks: Is There Room for Us in this Church?

Re: Young Mormon Family Asks: Is There Room for Us in this Church?

Re: Young Mormon Family Asks: Is There Room for Us in this Church?

Re: Young Mormon Family Asks: Is There Room for Us in this Church?

Re: Young Mormon Family Asks: Is There Room for Us in this Church?

Re: Young Mormon Family Asks: Is There Room for Us in this Church?

Re: Young Mormon Family Asks: Is There Room for Us in this Church?

Re: Young Mormon Family Asks: Is There Room for Us in this Church?

Re: Young Mormon Family Asks: Is There Room for Us in this Church?