NOM

I have been reading a book about scientology. Its fascinating to read about the genesis and continuance of that movement.

Something really struck me today as the book was discussing the Rehabilitation Project Force (RPF). Google it, its terrifying. I am soooo glad I was born Mormon and not a scientologist stooge...
The RPF used a variety of conditioning techniques lifted out of communist china, psychologist Robert Lifton described it as "ideological totalism." I need to do some more reading on the subject but what caught my eye was this passage:

The dogma of the group is promoted as scientifically incontestable --- in fact, truer than anything any human being has ever experienced. Resistance is not just immoral; it is illogical and unscientific. in order to support this notion, language is constricted by what Lifton calls the "Thought terminating Cliché." "The most far-reaching and complex of human problems are compressed into brief, highly reductive, definitive sounding phrases, easily memorized and easily expressed.... For instance, the Chinese Communists dismissed the quest for individual expression and the exploration of alternative ideas as examples of 'bourgeois mentality' ."

In Scientology, terms such as 'Suppressive Person' and 'Potential Trouble Source' play similar roles of declaring allegiance to the group and pushing discussion off the table.

I thought it would be fun to identify how many of these thought terminating clichés we can find in Mormon doctrine, culture, and general vocabulary?

The first that come to mind for me are "Counterfeit Marriage" and perhaps "The world would have you think..."
What can you come up with?

That's just some bishops.

Uh-huh! No! That is NOT the priesthood. The priesthood makes men BETTER!

The one thought terminating cliche I hate is that "the spirit is the source of all truth." Logic, reason and intelligence go right out the window, with the only determining factor being the magic voices in one's head. I really have a tough time with this one. A narcissistic mother who insisted that her "revelations" were absolutely correct, even when they were bonkers, and there simply was no reasoning with her. Her latest revelation is that our relationship suffers because I think like a liberal, and unless I repent before she dies she won't be able to recommend me to God. Eeesh. That's a testimonial I'm glad to shut down.

I hate the cliche "there is just so much we don't know about ___________________." Apologists use this one a lot, and it seems to come up every time I am discussing the church's issues with someone, especially with DW. I state an issue, say polyandry for example, and make a logical argument about why I have a problem with it, and when the person has nothing left, it's always, "well, there is just so much we don't know about it. We just don't know why the Lord commanded it." It's so blindingly obvious to me what polyandry was really about, but as soon as the person chalks it up to some unknowable God mystery, the discussion is over. They won't dare argue about the mysterious mind and will of God, no matter how ridiculous and harmful it is.

Have faith

Culper Jr. wrote: ↑Thu Jun 08, 2017 2:52 am I hate the cliche "there is just so much we don't know about ___________________." Apologists use this one a lot, and it seems to come up every time I am discussing the church's issues with someone, especially with DW. I state an issue, say polyandry for example, and make a logical argument about why I have a problem with it, and when the person has nothing left, it's always, "well, there is just so much we don't know about it. We just don't know why the Lord commanded it." It's so blindingly obvious to me what polyandry was really about, but as soon as the person chalks it up to some unknowable God mystery, the discussion is over. They won't dare argue about the mysterious mind and will of God, no matter how ridiculous and harmful it is.

The appropriate response, in my mind, is, "We don't know the Lord commanded it." There are a lot of things we don't know about various subjects, the appropriate response if there is insufficient evidence to make a decision is to remain undecided, not to claim it was somehow incomprehensibly God's will.

So called......

1smartdodog wrote: ↑Thu Jun 08, 2017 5:13 am So called......

Oh yeah, I really loathe that one. It just drips with, "Well insignificant little rank-and-file person, since you are so weak in your faith I will deign to address this topic, this so called or what you refer to as ___________________." Then, as Give It Time said, they basically tell you to have faith.

Dravin wrote: ↑Thu Jun 08, 2017 5:07 am "We don't know the Lord commanded it."

Yup, there are so many things that are commandments in the church where the actual documented commandment is MIA.

Anti-Mormon (for anything that doesn't fit the narrative, regardless of facts)

It will all be answered someday (i.e. after we're dead)

It's not important for your eternal salvation.

God's ways are not our ways.

It will be taken care of in the Lord's time.

"We've always known about that!"

Anytime someone bares their testimony to "answer" a question.

All the trite reasons believers give for someone leaving:

• They're lazy
• They just want to sin
• They went off the deep end
• They never had a "testimonkey"

Edit 1: The "church" is perfect, the members are not.




I'll probably come back and keep adding stuff to this post for about... A week?

That's CULTURE not doctrine!

Thats MEMBERS not the church!

Thats interesting, but not important. You have to remember whats matters is the priesthood.

He was speaking as a MAN not a prophet.

I knowthe book of mormon is the word of god
I know that Joseph Smith is a prophet
I Know the church is true

Follow the prophet
when the prophet speaks the thinking is done
Obedience is the first law of heaven
Do not speak evil of the lord's annointed

redjay wrote: ↑Thu Jun 08, 2017 9:07 am Follow the prophet
when the prophet speaks the thinking is done
Obedience is the first law of heaven
Do not speak evil of the lord's annointed

Do you sustain the brethren?
Remember your covenants.

All problems and controversies in the church can be reduced to authority. Do you believe that the church is the only true and living church on the face of the earth? If so, then what every problem you think you have is irrelevant.

Anti-mormon lies.

He must have an axe to grind.

We will find out the answers to that in the next life.

The church is true.

He was speaking as a man.

That is not official doctrine.

I feel the spirit of contention.

Where did you read/hear that?

Approved sources.

The light has gone out of your countenance.

You've lost the spirit.

The church is perfect but the members aren't.

oliblish wrote: ↑Thu Jun 08, 2017 10:21 am I feel the spirit of contention.

The perfect excuse for running away from cognitive dissonance.

I've been getting variations of these from my wife lately:

"I wish you'd focus on the positive."

"Who cares about what Joseph may or may not have done. That was so long ago! It doesn't even matter to our faith today."

"I know deep down that you believe. This too shall pass."

An added one from me, "How is that important to your salvation?"

Said a friend of mine just yesterday, when I mentioned the mall. I responded, "it's pretty important if the 'one true church' is not a church at all anymore, but a real estate corporation masquerading as a church." Changed the subject pretty quickly.

So I guess mine is also a thought terminating cliche. My bad.

TestimonyLost wrote: ↑Fri Jun 09, 2017 6:39 am "I know deep down that you believe. This too shall pass."

There are many cliches that make me roll my eyes, but the sentiment in the one above infuriates me and I consider those fighting words. It's a level of disrespect that I'm not going to just roll over for out of politeness or domestic tranquility.