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Church smear campaign against Joseph Bishop accuser
Posted: Sat Mar 31, 2018 8:03 pm
by Not Buying It
Apparently the Church put together a five page dossier with all the unflattering information they could find on the woman who accused Joseph Bishop, then gave it to Bishop's son so he could leak information to the press and discredit her. Apparently that is how the Church deals with someone who accuses a Church official of sexual assault (even when he confesses).
http://kutv.com/news/local/exclusive-do ... ex-scandal
Re: Church smear campaign against Joseph Bishop accuser
Posted: Sat Mar 31, 2018 8:44 pm
by Anon70
But, to quote a redditor, they didn’t have the resources to investigate the assault.
Re: Church smear campaign against Joseph Bishop accuser
Posted: Sat Mar 31, 2018 8:46 pm
by Not Buying It
Anon70 wrote: ↑Sat Mar 31, 2018 8:44 pm
But, to quote a redditor, they didn’t have the resources to investigate the assault.
Yeah, I saw that comment too, and they have an excellent point.
Re: Church smear campaign against Joseph Bishop accuser
Posted: Sat Mar 31, 2018 9:49 pm
by Hermey
Apparently, it was done by the Church's outside legal counsel, David Jordan (also a former mission president.)
Re: Church smear campaign against Joseph Bishop accuser
Posted: Sat Mar 31, 2018 10:03 pm
by oliblish
Hermey wrote:Apparently, it was done by the Church's outside legal counsel, David Jordan (also a former mission president.)
Do you think that outside legal counsel did this without direction or payment by their client?
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Re: Church smear campaign against Joseph Bishop accuser
Posted: Sat Mar 31, 2018 10:41 pm
by Not Buying It
oliblish wrote: ↑Sat Mar 31, 2018 10:03 pm
Hermey wrote:Apparently, it was done by the Church's outside legal counsel, David Jordan (also a former mission president.)
Do you think that outside legal counsel did this without direction or payment by their client?
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
I don’t. In a case that sensitive, would Jordan risk displeasing those who are both his clients and his ecclesiastical leaders? Maybe he is a fool and would, but I think it is more likely he did as he was directed to do.
Re: Church smear campaign against Joseph Bishop accuser
Posted: Sun Apr 01, 2018 12:04 am
by Hermey
Not Buying It wrote: ↑Sat Mar 31, 2018 10:41 pm
I don’t. In a case that sensitive, would Jordan risk displeasing those who are both his clients and his ecclesiastical leaders? Maybe he is a fool and would, but I think it is more likely he did as he was directed to do.
I agree.
Re: Church smear campaign against Joseph Bishop accuser
Posted: Sun Apr 01, 2018 6:12 am
by AdmiralHoldo
Disgusting.
Re: Church smear campaign against Joseph Bishop accuser
Posted: Sun Apr 01, 2018 7:26 am
by Just This Guy
oliblish wrote: ↑Sat Mar 31, 2018 10:03 pm
Hermey wrote:Apparently, it was done by the Church's outside legal counsel, David Jordan (also a former mission president.)
Do you think that outside legal counsel did this without direction or payment by their client?
From the linked article:
"In the last two days, 2News has obtained a letter that was written by David Jordan, a lawyer at the firm, Stoel Rives, acting on behalf of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints."
To be fair, does that mean that Jordan was working for the church directly, or did he do it on his own for the benefit of the church? LDS inc. will claim the latter.
Re: Church smear campaign against Joseph Bishop accuser
Posted: Sun Apr 01, 2018 10:20 am
by alas
This is worse than disgusting.
Once I had the "experience" (I refuse to call it a good experience...lets just call it educational) to be the facilatator in a group of adolescent sexual abusers. The entitled attitude of these young men was disgusting. I will admit this was a professional challenge to see these brats as worth redeeming----long way to go to keep these YM from being life time rapists and criminals. But one group meeting, I had a real hard times steering the conversation into a healthy or healing direction. The YM went off on "proving how their sisters (at 5-9 years of age) deserved the abuse because at 14-16 years old, their life was a total mess. So, the logic went that using drugs at 14 caused the older brother to see her worthlessness and sexually abuse her. Proof that SHE caused it, because look, she uses drugs. Or look, she got herself pregnant at 15, proof that she was a promiscuous ho at age 8.
Of course, they had the cause and effect totally jackass backwards.
This is EXACTLY what the church is doing here. Look, she must have seduced this good man because look how screwed up her life is ever since then.
This is the behavior of an abuser. So, the general authorities have the same misogynistic attitude as the young men who regularly raped their much younger sisters. They are showing their true colors.
Re: Church smear campaign against Joseph Bishop accuser
Posted: Sun Apr 01, 2018 10:42 am
by Thoughtful
alas wrote: ↑Sun Apr 01, 2018 10:20 am
This is worse than disgusting.
Once I had the "experience" (I refuse to call it a good experience...lets just call it educational) to be the facilatator in a group of adolescent sexual abusers. The entitled attitude of these young men was disgusting. I will admit this was a professional challenge to see these brats as worth redeeming----long way to go to keep these YM from being life time rapists and criminals. But one group meeting, I had a real hard times steering the conversation into a healthy or healing direction. The YM went off on "proving how their sisters (at 5-9 years of age) deserved the abuse because at 14-16 years old, their life was a total mess. So, the logic went that using drugs at 14 caused the older brother to see her worthlessness and sexually abuse her. Proof that SHE caused it, because look, she uses drugs. Or look, she got herself pregnant at 15, proof that she was a promiscuous ho at age 8.
Of course, they had the cause and effect totally jackass backwards.
This is EXACTLY what the church is doing here. Look, she must have seduced this good man because look how screwed up her life is ever since then.
This is the behavior of an abuser. So, the general authorities have the same misogynistic attitude as the young men who regularly raped their much younger sisters. They are showing their true colors.
Im dealing with a similar scenario at the moment, and the other piece is parents who deny, deflect, and push under the rug, to preserve the family name. Much like the church is doing here.
Ive thought a lot about how this is in some way human nature to protect your image. But the church of God needs to be better than the natural man.
Re: Church smear campaign against Joseph Bishop accuser
Posted: Sun Apr 01, 2018 11:14 am
by alas
Thoughtful wrote: ↑Sun Apr 01, 2018 10:42 am
alas wrote: ↑Sun Apr 01, 2018 10:20 am
This is worse than disgusting.
Once I had the "experience" (I refuse to call it a good experience...lets just call it educational) to be the facilatator in a group of adolescent sexual abusers. The entitled attitude of these young men was disgusting. I will admit this was a professional challenge to see these brats as worth redeeming----long way to go to keep these YM from being life time rapists and criminals. But one group meeting, I had a real hard times steering the conversation into a healthy or healing direction. The YM went off on "proving how their sisters (at 5-9 years of age) deserved the abuse because at 14-16 years old, their life was a total mess. So, the logic went that using drugs at 14 caused the older brother to see her worthlessness and sexually abuse her. Proof that SHE caused it, because look, she uses drugs. Or look, she got herself pregnant at 15, proof that she was a promiscuous ho at age 8.
Of course, they had the cause and effect totally jackass backwards.
This is EXACTLY what the church is doing here. Look, she must have seduced this good man because look how screwed up her life is ever since then.
This is the behavior of an abuser. So, the general authorities have the same misogynistic attitude as the young men who regularly raped their much younger sisters. They are showing their true colors.
Im dealing with a similar scenario at the moment, and the other piece is parents who deny, deflect, and push under the rug, to preserve the family name. Much like the church is doing here.
Ive thought a lot about how this is in some way human nature to protect your image. But the church of God needs to be better than the natural man.
It is human nature to twist facts so that you can feel good about yourself and I know on one level that is what the church is doing. After all, if he was really the sexual predator he appears to be, then THEY are responsible for putting him in a position where abuse was easy and victims were plentiful. So, it is very much like the parents defending their son, because they cannot accept that they raised a boy who would rape his sisters.
Yeah, I had to deal with that professionally too.
I actually found it was easier to be the facilatator in the adult offenders group than to break through the defenses of the parents of an abuser. Possibly unresolved mother conflict on my part, mom failed to protect me, and these sickos are just like her???
Anyway, the church is going to look worse n the long run for badmouthing a victim they helped to create, just exactly like the parents who bad mouth their daughter to protect their son. They usually totally lose the daughter for the rest of her life, and the son is still a selfish jerk. So they think they are protecting their "good name" but in the long run they lose more than just their good name, they lose the love of their daughter. They think they are "not choosing sides" between their children, but they are badly failing their daughter.
And the church is badly failing its women.
Re: Church smear campaign against Joseph Bishop accuser
Posted: Sun Apr 01, 2018 11:30 am
by moksha
The five pages that Joseph Bishop's son released to the media were part of a larger dossier the Church's contracted law firm had culled from membership records and interviews with the victim's religious leaders, family, neighbors, ward members, and public records. KUTV described it as being like "a ruthless corporation" trying to silence and smear someone it has wronged.
Re: Church smear campaign against Joseph Bishop accuser
Posted: Sun Apr 01, 2018 10:08 pm
by Thoughtful
Someone on Reddit mentioned that the child she placed for adoption was contacted and asked for dirt on her even.
Re: Church smear campaign against Joseph Bishop accuser
Posted: Sun Apr 01, 2018 10:44 pm
by moksha
Thoughtful wrote: ↑Sun Apr 01, 2018 10:08 pm
Someone on Reddit mentioned that the child she placed for adoption was contacted and asked for dirt on her even.
Yikes!
Re: Church smear campaign against Joseph Bishop accuser
Posted: Mon Apr 02, 2018 1:16 am
by Reuben
A post about this on a subreddit where lawyers hang out talking about this kind of thing:
https://www.reddit.com/r/legaladviceoff ... _lawyer_a/
One illuminating response so far.
Re: Church smear campaign against Joseph Bishop accuser
Posted: Mon Apr 02, 2018 1:41 pm
by Archimedes
Unfortunately the legal system assumes that these young women had access to the same level of legal representation as the church does. And everyone knows that's a bunch of tapir spit. Sure the Stoel Rives aggressive tactics may have been posturing for the purposes of settlement negotiations, and may not have been admissible, but how would the abused women know that?
The other comment that gets me is this: "One thing to keep in mind is that when a church is in a legal battle, it's no longer friendly, it's a 501(c)(3), [Corporation] and it's damn sure going to act like it."
How about if the Church stops acting like a Corporation and starts acting like a religious organization that cares about its members? I don't care if it is a 501(c)(3) and has plenty of money to spend on the meanest attack dog lawyers available, whatever happened to simply doing the right thing?!?!!!!
Bunch of power hungry bastards is all they are, shucking and jiving to try to keep their crumbling empire together.
Disgusting.
Re: Church smear campaign against Joseph Bishop accuser
Posted: Mon Apr 02, 2018 9:13 pm
by Archimedes
Here is a serious question for you attorney types. Is there a way to get around the statute of limitations on this? The abuse that occurred has Got to be the tip of an iceberg, this is not a one-off situation. Ecclesiastical abuse is ingrained in the LDS church culture, particularly toward women.
Would a class action suit be able to work around statute of limitation issues? It seems like some of the Catholic church abuse cases were pretty old, what tactics were used to get those cases heard?
I could very much get behind a cause like this, including but not limited to monetary donations. It is very much overdue, that the LDS church should pay in full for its institutionalized abuse of women.
Re: Church smear campaign against Joseph Bishop accuser
Posted: Tue Apr 03, 2018 7:53 am
by IT_Veteran
Perhaps there’s a lawyer around that can answer this better than me and correct any mistakes.
As far as I know the statute of limitations applies only to criminal law. He can’t be prosecuted or put in jail for it, which is why the DA in Utah County decided not to pursue it.
That does not preclude her from filing a civil suit against Bishop, her ecclesiastical leaders that failed to report it to the church, or the church itself. The emotional damage it caused has clearly continued to affect her, by her own admission.
Similarly, a class-action could be brought against the church if enough victims came forward. It’s a civil matter, nobody would go to jail. But they could wring a lot of money out of the church if there were enough victims.
Just like this case though, it would likely never go to trial. The church would want that to go away as quickly and quietly as possible and settle before trial for a temple’s worth of money.
Re: Church smear campaign against Joseph Bishop accuser
Posted: Tue Apr 03, 2018 8:11 am
by Just This Guy
While the church would like it not to go to trial, there have been some civil cases against the church that did go to trial. The West Virginia trail is underway now. Several law firms have taken up the challenge to push them all the way. In the case of WV, it was a law firm that specialists in clerical abuse of children cases that successfully pushed it to trial. It took over 4 years for the WV case to push though all the roadblock that the church tried to throw up along the way. Of course, that got several lawyers and a judge reprimanded along the way as well.
One thing I will say is that it will probably be easier to push for trail, the further you are for Utah. They would probably have better luck in Denver than SLC.