NOM

Hi, guys. Long time. Happy Easter.

So, my family has a Facebook messenger chat with all of us on there. And they are constantly referring to big, big changes that occurred this time around. I can't tell if this is normal "HISTORICAL CONFERENCE" or if something actually happened. Any quick summaries out there so I know what they are talking about without getting a bunch of messages about how blessed they are to have a living prophet?

Never mind, just heard about the home teaching.

document wrote: ↑Sun Apr 01, 2018 3:13 pm Never mind, just heard about the home teaching.

They've "combined" High Priests and Elders too. Historically Historic!!!

P.S. Good to hear from you Doc!

Yeah, not sure I understand everything about the priesthood quorum changes but it's a little like saying, "I think I'll put my shirt on first this morning instead of my pants.."

Or maybe re-arranging the deck chairs on the Titanic?

This just goes along with the dumbing down of what they consider a "miracle" these days.

Palerider wrote: ↑Sun Apr 01, 2018 4:06 pm Yeah, not sure I understand everything about the priesthood quorum changes but it's a little like saying, "I think I'll put my shirt on first this morning instead of my pants.."

Instead of 3 older dudes in one room, and 2 dudes a bit younger than the older dudes in another room... It will just be all 5 of those dudes in one room now.

REVELATION!!!

wtfluff wrote: ↑Sun Apr 01, 2018 4:14 pm
Instead of 3 older dudes in one room, and 2 dudes a bit younger than the older dudes in another room... It will just be all 5 of those dudes in one room now.

REVELATION!!!

Oh well!!

If I had known THAT, it would have made a world of difference. Now I am truly in awe on a galactic scale.

I’d imagine the number of Elders not ever advancing to High Priests as a statistic isn’t exactly faith promoting, and I’d gather it’s moving in a less faith-promoting direction all the time. The change at least allows that to be buried—plus with the push to get men on missions before they’ve even had a taste of a broader viewpoint, they can probably still report something somewhat impressive in terms of persons ordained to the Melchizedek Priesthood—at least in the heartland of Mormonism.

Flaming Meaux wrote: ↑Sun Apr 01, 2018 6:44 pm I’d imagine the number of Elders not ever advancing to High Priests as a statistic isn’t exactly faith promoting, and I’d gather it’s moving in a less faith-promoting direction all the time. The change at least allows that to be buried—Iplus with the push to get men on missions before they’ve even had a taste of a broader viewpoint, they can probably still report something somewhat impressive in terms of persons ordained to the Melchizedek Priesthood—at least in the heartland of Mormonism.

In my ward the size of the group is not a problem. We'll probably need the largest room in the building for the combined MP. However, I do know of at least one older elder who has probably stayed as such because he has more integrity than I have. Being an older elder probably has pushed several men away from attending priesthood meeting.

The church is changing with the times and slowly adapting to new norms. No real big change. Some of the changes they have announced should have been enacted 20 years ago. No big revelation. Just oiling the machine for better efficiency.

The combination of quorums is a good move. My father was an "old" elder (early fifties) and to be honest, there were some comments about worthiness that went around the ward. It chased my father away more than welcomed him. He became more active once he was made a high priest and could go to class with his peers.

I did chat with my mom over dinner last night, I joked with her that the removal of HT/VT only means that 90% of the Elder's Quorum gets to stop lying every month. She thought it was the funniest thing ever.

I'm only impressed with the "big" changes in the sense that this was a mildly interesting corporate reorganization. President Nelson objectivley did several good moves:

• Combine the Elders and High Priests: Reduce ward staffing needs and allow 60s and 70s style Mormonism to influence Millennials
• Eliminate Home Teaching and Visiting Teaching: Very few Mormons actually liked doing visits. Customized ministry in each ward will be a widely appreciated benefit.
• Announce seven new temples in interesting areas: End with an exciting announcement which provides the faithful with evidence of growth without actually looking at the statistical numbers which are not very good.

Well done, Russell Nelson! My family was duly impressed and I will hear about this for quite some time. What I will not hear about is that apostate forums like /r/exmormon now have more active members than there are full-time missionaries. I will not hear about the anemic growth of the church and the troubling amount of inactivity overtly implied by the known ratio of members per ward. The MTC President scandal will not be talked about despite the valiant efforts of Peggy Fletcher Stack and the woman who shouted "stop protecting sexual predators" during conference. The Gospel Topic Essays will continue to not be talked about at home or at church, but this is a passive, long standing policy of the church.

Too bad they were unable to announce the 2-hour block change; if only this April 1 broadcast had allotted more time before the LDS sales commercials began.

Really, in my mind, there were four big things that make this conference historic.

1) Two new apostles were called. Neither apostle was born in Utah. One is from Brazil and one is Asian-American. This adds needed diversity to the church's governing group.

2) There is consolidation of the High Priest group into the EQ. I think this is significant as it is a smaller piece of how I think the church is trying to align the male and female programs of the church. Now there will be just one men's group that meets on Sunday just like there is one women's group. This also aligns with the way Priesthood and Women's conference are being restructured. Elder Gong, in his talk, even provided a modified quote from the Book of Mormon when he discussed the "natural man, and natural woman". I think this change announced in conference speaks to the way the church is trying to accommodate changes that will help women to feel more included in the church, and they are doing it in their own way.

3) The home teaching program has been dissolved and is being revamped and will now be referred to simply as ministering. There are fewer metrics that will be tracked. This change basically makes official the way I have done home teaching for the last 10 years. Home teaching will now, officially, be more about connecting with people rather than checking off a box.

4) Seven new temples were announced. One will be in Russia, and one will be in India.

I will say that while each of these on their own maybe ins't that big of a deal, and while these changes are more procedural or administrative, this is REALLY BIG for many Mormons that regularly and happily attend church. In my view, the church had kind of just been floating along with Monson at the helm, and RMN is really trying to shake things up. I wouldn't be surprised if their are more changes in the future.

This conference certainly had a different feel to it. It felt more coordinated. With every one of the changes that were announced, there were multiple talks given to specifically address the new changes, and to talk through how they would impact people and how they would help. This conference felt different to me, and frankly has helped me feel more invigorated and positive about my relationship with the church.

Can the "different" feeling be attributed to Nelson's mental capacities vs. Monson's incapacities?

Ten years with Monson at the helm could accurately be described as watching paint dry.

Now with Nelson, we are watching the church repaint the same wall with a fresh coat of the same color of beige. Maybe thinned out a little so he can stand at the pulpit and mightily proclaim to the members; Repaint, Repaint, and thin no more!!

Red Ryder wrote: ↑Wed Apr 04, 2018 10:29 amNow with Nelson, we are watching the church repaint the same wall with a fresh coat of the same color of beige. Maybe thinned out a little so he can stand at the pulpit and mightily proclaim to the members; Repaint, Repaint, and thin no more!!

I remember in the mid 80s they killed the 70s at the local level. Seems to me that was a much bigger change than just telling the elders to meet with the HPs now. Will this new policy also change the way ordinations take place when moving from E to HP?

Red Ryder wrote: ↑Wed Apr 04, 2018 10:29 am Repaint, Repaint, and thin no more!!

Dude that's gold plates on a handcart! You gotta meme that!

wtfluff wrote: ↑Sun Apr 01, 2018 4:14 pm

Palerider wrote: ↑Sun Apr 01, 2018 4:06 pm Yeah, not sure I understand everything about the priesthood quorum changes but it's a little like saying, "I think I'll put my shirt on first this morning instead of my pants.."

Instead of 3 older dudes in one room, and 2 dudes a bit younger than the older dudes in another room... It will just be all 5 of those dudes in one room now.

REVELATION!!!

Mormon revelation = any business decision made by the president.
Ie. Temples: rather than making gigantic temples, how about making cheaper smaller ones...revelation
Missionaries: problem is we lose a lot of young men who go to collage and then not on a mission. Solution: change the age for missionaries.... revelation
Gays: we don’t want the gays having child custody problems in our wards. Then just don’t let the kids become members then we won’t be involved...revelation.
Home teaching: it hasn’t worked in years, but visiting teaching seems to work ok, so let’s rebrand it as ministering...revelation.
HP: we don’t have enough people in our quorums to be effective, so let’s just combine them...revelation.
The next revelation everyone is waiting for: 2 hour church. Hope it comes soon...here’s the business meeting with a PowerPoint by Gong,... so, this graph shows that most people think church is too long and boring and sucks in about every way.... New Q12 Soares says “in Brazil, my friends went to mass for only an hour and then off to the beach, they seemed to like it”. Holland then says “ maybe we could compromise with two hours of church”. Nelson...two hour church it is, Rasband will you figure this out for next GC. Oaks....revelation for sure. Bednar: tender mercies.

azflyer wrote: ↑Wed Apr 04, 2018 8:22 am Really, in my mind, there were four big things that make this conference historic.

1) Two new apostles were called. Neither apostle was born in Utah. One is from Brazil and one is Asian-American. This adds needed diversity to the church's governing group.

I think it is an interesting commentary on Mormonism when the fact that a guy is born in Calif . instead of Ut is noteworthy. He may be of Chinese ancestry but he is church broke through and through . He went to BYU and is married to a Lilly white girl from Ut whose father just happened to be a GA. I remember J Golden Kimball's remark that the" church operates on relation not revelation . If my name wasn't Kimball I never would have amounted to a hill of bean in this church "

2bizE wrote: ↑Wed Apr 04, 2018 12:18 pmHP: we don’t have enough people in our quorums to be effective, so let’s just combine them...revelation.

Or: We can't find enough victims who are willing to be "called" to "leadership" positions with thwo "quorums" so we'll combine them to one... Revelation!

asa wrote: ↑Wed Apr 04, 2018 12:50 pm I think it is an interesting commentary on Mormonism when the fact that a guy is born in Calif . instead of Ut is noteworthy. He may be of Chinese ancestry but he is church broke through and through . He went to BYU and is married to a Lilly white girl from Ut whose father just happened to be a GA. I remember J Golden Kimball's remark that the" church operates on relation not revelation . If my name wasn't Kimball I never would have amounted to a hill of bean in this church "

Is it interesting? Absolutely. Mormonism is certainly a unique religion. However, this is a real big deal. Geographic diversity is certainly important and Gong fits that description. I grew up in AZ and except for my mission have lived here my whole life. When I arrived in the MTC, the Utah missionaries were all sorry for me for having to be raise in the 'mission field' and were always telling me how I just didn't know what I was missing in 'zion'. Having leaders from outside of Utah is badly needed and will absolutely improve the diversity of the leadership.