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Let's consider another such postulate:Just because something is made up does not make it untrue.
Just cause something is made up it can still have value. Mythology is a joy of Humanity's desire.
I love this^^^Arcturus wrote: ↑Wed May 02, 2018 8:36 pm This idea was shared in an online group I follow. If you believe in God and you don't believe the BofM is complete nonsense, I think this might be interesting to you. I'd be curious to see what you think. Your use of the term "beneficial mythology" made me think of this guy's use of the term "manure" as a fertilizer for cultivating spiritual growth. So thought I'd share it. I imagine this will not be interesting at all to many in the NOM community.
Quote:
In Alma 32, he says he's not even asking you to "know something"...he just hopes that you'll start with the simplest "desire to believe", and that you'll let that grow into experiments on that desire to believe that will help you come to various stages of knowing. But you should be clear what it is Alma is suggesting the "seed" is. It isn't whether or not the church is true, and it isn't about the Book of Mormon itself, and it isn't about the current leaders.
Alma explicitly tells us (though we're all blind to see it), that the seed we are to plant is that "God is Merciful unto all that believe". That's the idea/seed he hopes you'll plant in your soul and allow to grow. The BoM, Leaders, The Church...these aren't the seed...these are the manure/fertilizer whose SOUL purpose should be helping the seed that "God is Merciful" to grow. Alma suggest that you sit with this idea, trust in God's mercy, allow the idea of God's mercy to rest in your heart, and decide if it fills up your soul (especially compared to the idea that God is a judgmental a-hole who is just waiting for you to fail miserably and then punish you for it).
He says that once the idea of God's mercy expands your soul...you can at least "know" that single idea through experience...that God is merciful and that believing such is a relief and a delight to the soul. But then he says you don't know much of anything else more than that...everything beyond that is still faith....belief. He says it will take a long time for the seedling you plant about God being Merciful to grow into a tree that can produce the fruit of everlasting life (deep inner connection to God, the type Jesus was always talking about was available in the path he was leading people on).
In case we don't believe that Alma was saying the Seed = God's Mercy...when the people ask him in Alma 33 what he meant by the seed that they should plant, he spends the rest of the chapter talking about a God who is merciful, and willing to be near to people in every moment of their lives, and not just in sacred spaces like temples or synagogues. He quotes a prayer that says that one thing that makes God truly angry is that people won't comprehend or believe that God is merciful. He talks about people who won't simply look in order to be healed...because they think something more has to be done in order to "earn" it (i.e....all the Mormon "do's" that you hinted at.)
God is apparently very patient with the whole "knowing" thing....much more patient than mormon vocabulary suggests. That he's fine with us just believing, or even us just desiring to believe. The foundation of it all isn't "church, BoM, Joseph Smith, Pres. Nelson"...the foundation upon which everything is built is that God is Merciful and Mighty to Deliver. Other things are only "true" in so far as they help us understand that single and beautiful aspect of God's character. They are the manure, not the seed. They are supposed to help the seed grow...but if they don't have sufficient nutritive power to do so....it's best to find other manure that fosters a belief in God's Mercy.
Especially the mythology that we can subscribe to as an adjunct belief system. We can tailor that to include all the nuggets of wisdom we have learned throughout our life and infuse it will a goodness that makes it better than any off the rack mythology. It can serve us as a guiding star, a worry stone, and a nice comfortable easy chair in our time of need.Perfigliano wrote: ↑Mon Apr 30, 2018 11:44 pm Just because something is mythological doesn't mean it can't teach real principles.
This was an interesting post. I like it as well but --- I would argue as most of us here would argue --- if you adopt that view you seem to step outside the general mythology. I dont think the mormon mythology is useful if you find yourself on the outside. That has been my experience.MoPag wrote: ↑Fri May 11, 2018 9:54 amI love this^^^Arcturus wrote: ↑Wed May 02, 2018 8:36 pm This idea was shared in an online group I follow. If you believe in God and you don't believe the BofM is complete nonsense, I think this might be interesting to you. I'd be curious to see what you think. Your use of the term "beneficial mythology" made me think of this guy's use of the term "manure" as a fertilizer for cultivating spiritual growth. So thought I'd share it. I imagine this will not be interesting at all to many in the NOM community.
Quote:
In Alma 32, he says he's not even asking you to "know something"...he just hopes that you'll start with the simplest "desire to believe", and that you'll let that grow into experiments on that desire to believe that will help you come to various stages of knowing. But you should be clear what it is Alma is suggesting the "seed" is. It isn't whether or not the church is true, and it isn't about the Book of Mormon itself, and it isn't about the current leaders.
Alma explicitly tells us (though we're all blind to see it), that the seed we are to plant is that "God is Merciful unto all that believe". That's the idea/seed he hopes you'll plant in your soul and allow to grow. The BoM, Leaders, The Church...these aren't the seed...these are the manure/fertilizer whose SOUL purpose should be helping the seed that "God is Merciful" to grow. Alma suggest that you sit with this idea, trust in God's mercy, allow the idea of God's mercy to rest in your heart, and decide if it fills up your soul (especially compared to the idea that God is a judgmental a-hole who is just waiting for you to fail miserably and then punish you for it).
He says that once the idea of God's mercy expands your soul...you can at least "know" that single idea through experience...that God is merciful and that believing such is a relief and a delight to the soul. But then he says you don't know much of anything else more than that...everything beyond that is still faith....belief. He says it will take a long time for the seedling you plant about God being Merciful to grow into a tree that can produce the fruit of everlasting life (deep inner connection to God, the type Jesus was always talking about was available in the path he was leading people on).
In case we don't believe that Alma was saying the Seed = God's Mercy...when the people ask him in Alma 33 what he meant by the seed that they should plant, he spends the rest of the chapter talking about a God who is merciful, and willing to be near to people in every moment of their lives, and not just in sacred spaces like temples or synagogues. He quotes a prayer that says that one thing that makes God truly angry is that people won't comprehend or believe that God is merciful. He talks about people who won't simply look in order to be healed...because they think something more has to be done in order to "earn" it (i.e....all the Mormon "do's" that you hinted at.)
God is apparently very patient with the whole "knowing" thing....much more patient than mormon vocabulary suggests. That he's fine with us just believing, or even us just desiring to believe. The foundation of it all isn't "church, BoM, Joseph Smith, Pres. Nelson"...the foundation upon which everything is built is that God is Merciful and Mighty to Deliver. Other things are only "true" in so far as they help us understand that single and beautiful aspect of God's character. They are the manure, not the seed. They are supposed to help the seed grow...but if they don't have sufficient nutritive power to do so....it's best to find other manure that fosters a belief in God's Mercy.
How does one measure the shaping of a better person if the metrics continue to change? What overarching metric or standard do we need to agree on in order to determine whether we are a good person or not?moksha wrote: ↑Mon Apr 30, 2018 10:36 pm Maintaining a mythology that helps shape us into better people can make us appreciative of that mythology. Our "black box" feedback loop needs to constantly examine whether our particular mythological narrative is succeeding or failing in shaping us to be better people.
Your thoughts?
Since we would be evaluating ourselves, I guess it would be up to us to supply our own metrics. For myself, I would look to behaviors I had admired such as looking out for one another (being my brother's keeper) and treating others as I would like to be treated (Golden Rule).
My DW and I were talking about this topic this morning. I believe that mythology can be beneficial, and I think there are some new studies showing that religion can be psychologically healthy for people. However, when mythology becomes manipulative and destructively shames individuals for something that is not even real, it becomes detrimental.moksha wrote: ↑Mon Apr 30, 2018 10:36 pm Maintaining a mythology that helps shape us into better people can make us appreciative of that mythology. Our "black box" feedback loop needs to constantly examine whether our particular mythological narrative is succeeding or failing in shaping us to be better people.
Your thoughts?
Santa is a bit like a god of conditional love for some children. Woe unto those who are naughty and wonderful presents for those who are nice. Obey and you get your rewards.