Church apologizes for Racism!

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jfro18
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Re: Church apologizes for Racism!

Post by jfro18 » Thu May 17, 2018 7:30 pm

i didn't realize this spread around earlier - I just thought it was a contained parody.

It's funny though because it just highlights what an absolute disaster the church is with race, and how this entire #BeOne program is a complete farce.

Whatever they can do to keep people from looking outside of church approved sources for the truth though, right?

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moksha
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Re: Church apologizes for Racism!

Post by moksha » Thu May 17, 2018 7:42 pm

This would make for an excellent New York Times story. Heck, it is probably even good enough for the syndicated News of the Weird column.
Good faith does not require evidence, but it also does not turn a blind eye to that evidence. Otherwise, it becomes misplaced faith.
-- Moksha

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GoodBoy
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Re: Church apologizes for Racism!

Post by GoodBoy » Thu May 17, 2018 9:56 pm

It got a lot of attention, and now the church needs to explain why it's not sorry. Genius.
Always been the good kid, but I wanted to know more, and to find and test truth.

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Not Buying It
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Re: Church apologizes for Racism!

Post by Not Buying It » Fri May 18, 2018 5:19 am

GoodBoy wrote:
Thu May 17, 2018 9:56 pm
It got a lot of attention, and now the church needs to explain why it's not sorry. Genius.
They won’t bother explaining anything. Thy will wait and it will be mostly forgotten in a few days. Their members are mostly mad at the hoaxer instead of the Church which caused the problem in the first place, and that misdirected anger is what they want. I’m not getting my hopes up that this will spur any kind of action by the Church.

I am not surprised that members aren’t outraged at the Church over this, but they should be.
"The truth is elegantly simple. The lie needs complex apologia. 4 simple words: Joe made it up. It answers everything with the perfect simplicity of Occam's Razor. Every convoluted excuse withers." - Some guy on Reddit called disposazelph

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deacon blues
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Re: Church apologizes for Racism!

Post by deacon blues » Fri May 18, 2018 7:33 am

Another entry in the "History of Parody." :roll: Robert Millet (BYU prof.) used to speak to missionaries about answering the question investigators should have asked. Yesterday Jonathan Streeter posted the apology that the Church should have made. :shock:
God is Love. God is Truth

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RubinHighlander
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Re: Church apologizes for Racism!

Post by RubinHighlander » Fri May 18, 2018 7:49 am

w2mz wrote:
Thu May 17, 2018 11:38 am
Where are the teeth? Why allow the church to smile and slighly talk around the issue?
I'm guessing there's money attached to this new partnership - gotta keep the donations from all sources rolling in, like them or not.
“Sir,' I said to the universe, 'I exist.' 'That,' said the universe, 'creates no sense of obligation in me whatsoever.”
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Red Ryder
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Re: Church apologizes for Racism!

Post by Red Ryder » Fri May 18, 2018 10:19 am

didyoumythme wrote:
Thu May 17, 2018 6:37 pm
Red Ryder wrote:
Thu May 17, 2018 5:37 pm
Let me get this straight.

Certain members are offended it was a hoax and they're mad at Jonathan Streeter rather than their own church who should morally do the right thing but won't?

Defend the church at ALL costs!
Wait where did you learn that Jonathan streeter did this?
The Salt Lake Tribune article where they interviewed him!
The hoax was the work of Jonathan Streeter, a former Mormon who lives in Texas and hosts the blog Thoughts on Things and Stuff under the pen name Thinker of Thoughts.
https://www.sltrib.com/news/2018/05/17/ ... of-racism/
Those who do not move do not notice their chains. —Rosa Luxemburg

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FiveFingerMnemonic
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Re: Church apologizes for Racism!

Post by FiveFingerMnemonic » Fri May 18, 2018 12:41 pm

Streeter also appeared on Fox13 news last night. Pretty good coverage.

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Hagoth
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Re: Church apologizes for Racism!

Post by Hagoth » Sat May 19, 2018 9:50 am

moksha wrote:
Thu May 17, 2018 7:28 pm
I feel bad for all the believers who heard that story and thanked God for giving the Brethren the wisdom to finally issue an apology. Satire is good but it is questionable when it dashes peoples hoped for wishes. They end up shaking their heads and saying it was too good to be true. At least the Church gives us lowered expectations.
Yeah, here's how I felt when I figured out it was a fake:
https://local.theonion.com/man-who-thou ... 1819565674
“The easy confidence with which I know another man's religion is folly teaches me to suspect that my own is also.” -Mark Twain

Margarita
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Re: Church apologizes for Racism!

Post by Margarita » Sat May 19, 2018 12:13 pm

What all of this means..even in the heartbreak..is that the church is not doing what members believe are right. And this is membership that is being told that they, too, have a right to personal revelation. The dam needs to break. Members: Stand up and speak up knowing your right as members and tithe payers that you have a right and a spiritual personal quest ..to have them listen.

Margarita
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Re: Church apologizes for Racism!

Post by Margarita » Sat May 19, 2018 12:16 pm

I don't know if you all know this..I havent' read the whole thread here. On youtube the guy that wrote this apology explains why. It will change you mind maybe on the reason he was so provocative about doing this. I was angry at him too...but he changed my mind..it is like..what else can you do?

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blazerb
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Re: Church apologizes for Racism!

Post by blazerb » Sat May 19, 2018 2:21 pm

Margarita wrote:
Sat May 19, 2018 12:16 pm
I don't know if you all know this..I havent' read the whole thread here. On youtube the guy that wrote this apology explains why. It will change you mind maybe on the reason he was so provocative about doing this. I was angry at him too...but he changed my mind..it is like..what else can you do?
I'm not going to say what he did was right, but it sure started an outpouring of emotion that would not have occurred otherwise. I hope that some good may come out of the whole situation. Maybe church leaders will disavow the entire priesthood and temple ban. I'm not holding my breath for an actual apology, though. The church does not think it can afford to admit that it can lead people astray. If the disavowal occurs, I would expect it to be vague enough that people will stop justifying the ban without actually admitting that prophets sometimes teach really damaging things.

Margarita
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Re: Church apologizes for Racism!

Post by Margarita » Sat May 19, 2018 4:44 pm

blazerb wrote:
Sat May 19, 2018 2:21 pm
Margarita wrote:
Sat May 19, 2018 12:16 pm
I don't know if you all know this..I havent' read the whole thread here. On youtube the guy that wrote this apology explains why. It will change you mind maybe on the reason he was so provocative about doing this. I was angry at him too...but he changed my mind..it is like..what else can you do?
I'm not going to say what he did was right, but it sure started an outpouring of emotion that would not have occurred otherwise. I hope that some good may come out of the whole situation. Maybe church leaders will disavow the entire priesthood and temple ban. I'm not holding my breath for an actual apology, though. The church does not think it can afford to admit that it can lead people astray. If the disavowal occurs, I would expect it to be vague enough that people will stop justifying the ban without actually admitting that prophets sometimes teach really damaging things.
Amen

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moksha
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Re: Church apologizes for Racism!

Post by moksha » Sat May 19, 2018 10:05 pm

Never apologize and never plead Nolo Contendere.
-- Kirton McConkie Handbook, pg 2
Good faith does not require evidence, but it also does not turn a blind eye to that evidence. Otherwise, it becomes misplaced faith.
-- Moksha

IT_Veteran
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Re: Church apologizes for Racism!

Post by IT_Veteran » Mon May 21, 2018 9:10 am

A member of the SP in my parents stake posted the article on his FB page. He commented that he never realized or though an apology was necessary, but after reading it he realized that it was. He was grateful for repentance and mercy, and that the church was doing what it could to move forward from past errors.

I commented that it was fake and a lot of members were angry at the author for bringing to the forefront that the church has not apologized for it. He deleted the post almost immediately.

No word as to whether he still thinks an apology is necessary with his new understanding of the issue.

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BlackMormon
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Re: Church apologizes for Racism!

Post by BlackMormon » Mon May 21, 2018 10:04 am

The Church has to get rid of its entire past in order to be ready for the future. It will hold on to all the "good things" and eliminate all of the bad sort of thing. It has to. So, basically, it has to erase all controversial doctrines preached by its original leaders. This creates a problem that nobody will care about: the original leaders would be deemed to be speaking as men, their doctrines changed to "theories" and "disavowed" and to the world, they will continue to be deemed as false teachers. That includes Joseph Smith and especially Brigham Young since they practiced and preached things that are totally unacceptable today.

SO the Church is regenerating itself for modern times and for the future. People will die away, new generations will come and maybe one day, just to distance itself from the past, it will change its name, shelf the Book of Mormon, Mormon Doctrine, Book of Abraham and others and new leaders in the future will come up with their own books. As generations pass, future Mormons will have a whole new church. During this process, the money and assets will be preserved and they will do like the 1% Illuminati and Freemasons do, retain their "legacy".

I know that I lost some of you when I mentioned Illuminati but Joseph and Brigham weren't Freemasons for no reason. All that we see churchwise today will likely be totally different 50 years from now. Or sooner. It depends at what pace they want to bury the past and its associated controversial doctrines.
Mormon Spokesman Explains Why Blacks Aren't Allowed Priesthood (1973)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zT1OfP8CqKo
https://www.modernghana.com/news/539346 ... -jesu.html

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MoPag
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Re: Church apologizes for Racism!

Post by MoPag » Mon May 21, 2018 10:27 am

BlackMormon wrote:
Mon May 21, 2018 10:04 am
The Church has to get rid of its entire past in order to be ready for the future. It will hold on to all the "good things" and eliminate all of the bad sort of thing. It has to. So, basically, it has to erase all controversial doctrines preached by its original leaders. This creates a problem that nobody will care about: the original leaders would be deemed to be speaking as men, their doctrines changed to "theories" and "disavowed" and to the world, they will continue to be deemed as false teachers. That includes Joseph Smith and especially Brigham Young since they practiced and preached things that are totally unacceptable today.

SO the Church is regenerating itself for modern times and for the future. People will die away, new generations will come and maybe one day, just to distance itself from the past, it will change its name, shelf the Book of Mormon, Mormon Doctrine, Book of Abraham and others and new leaders in the future will come up with their own books. As generations pass, future Mormons will have a whole new church. During this process, the money and assets will be preserved and they will do like the 1% Illuminati and Freemasons do, retain their "legacy".

I know that I lost some of you when I mentioned Illuminati but Joseph and Brigham weren't Freemasons for no reason. All that we see churchwise today will likely be totally different 50 years from now. Or sooner. It depends at what pace they want to bury the past and its associated controversial doctrines.
Thank you for sharing your perspective on this. I hope things change sooner rather than later.
...walked eye-deep in hell
believing in old men’s lies...--Ezra Pound

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blazerb
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Re: Church apologizes for Racism!

Post by blazerb » Mon May 21, 2018 6:11 pm

BlackMormon wrote:
Mon May 21, 2018 10:04 am
SO the Church is regenerating itself for modern times and for the future. People will die away, new generations will come and maybe one day, just to distance itself from the past, it will change its name, shelf the Book of Mormon, Mormon Doctrine, Book of Abraham and others and new leaders in the future will come up with their own books. As generations pass, future Mormons will have a whole new church. During this process, the money and assets will be preserved and they will do like the 1% Illuminati and Freemasons do, retain their "legacy".
I wonder sometimes if the regeneration will end up leaving behind the religious aspects entirely. I can't remember if I learned about it here, but the Oneida community ended up just making cutlery. I could easily imagine the Mormons just being a giant holding company in 100 years, but I'll wait to see. It's more likely that the religious claims will remain, but fewer and fewer people are going to believe them.

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Jeffret
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Re: Church apologizes for Racism!

Post by Jeffret » Wed May 23, 2018 9:25 am

Creator of fake LDS apology does his own apologizing, acknowledges causing ‘tremendous pain for black Mormons’
“I caused tremendous pain for black Mormons who have patiently waited for so long,” Streeter wrote in a letter to The Salt Lake Tribune. “I am deeply sorry.”
...
They felt “retraumatized” by Streeter’s deceit, Zandra Vranes, co-author of “Diary of Two Mad Black Mormons,” said in a tear-filled Facebook Live video. “We are not pawns in your game of white people fighting the white church.”
...
The dialogue on “racism and white supremacy in the LDS Church is a complex one,” the Legacy Committee wrote. “Allyship demands cooperation and consultation between the group affected and those on the outside who seek to make a positive change. …[but Streeter’s approach] was nothing short of manipulative, self-centered and disingenuous.”
"Close your eyes, for your eyes will only tell the truth,
And the truth isn't what you want to see" (Charles Hart, "The Music of the Night")

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Not Buying It
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Re: Church apologizes for Racism!

Post by Not Buying It » Wed May 23, 2018 9:58 am

Jeffret wrote:
Wed May 23, 2018 9:25 am
Creator of fake LDS apology does his own apologizing, acknowledges causing ‘tremendous pain for black Mormons’
“I caused tremendous pain for black Mormons who have patiently waited for so long,” Streeter wrote in a letter to The Salt Lake Tribune. “I am deeply sorry.”
...
They felt “retraumatized” by Streeter’s deceit, Zandra Vranes, co-author of “Diary of Two Mad Black Mormons,” said in a tear-filled Facebook Live video. “We are not pawns in your game of white people fighting the white church.”
...
The dialogue on “racism and white supremacy in the LDS Church is a complex one,” the Legacy Committee wrote. “Allyship demands cooperation and consultation between the group affected and those on the outside who seek to make a positive change. …[but Streeter’s approach] was nothing short of manipulative, self-centered and disingenuous.”
I disagree with that viewpoint - he didn't cause the pain. If the Church would have just said what he said they wouldn't be feeling any pain. And if the Church hadn't been horribly racist to begin with, no one would be feeling any pain over this.

Streeter is not the bad guy here. Some people need to realize they are feeling pain because the Church won't say the things Streeter said - that is why they are feeling pain.
"The truth is elegantly simple. The lie needs complex apologia. 4 simple words: Joe made it up. It answers everything with the perfect simplicity of Occam's Razor. Every convoluted excuse withers." - Some guy on Reddit called disposazelph

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