Soul-Crushing Sins of Omission

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Rob4Hope
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Re: Soul-Crushing Sins of Omission

Post by Rob4Hope » Wed Jul 11, 2018 8:03 pm

Hagoth wrote:
Wed Jul 11, 2018 2:20 pm
Rob4Hope wrote:
Tue Jul 10, 2018 11:38 am
The greatest thing I can do is this: SWK...I forgive you.
I haven't been able to do that, so I guess it's one of my sins of omission.
Those guys don't forgive. They just justify themselves as though it a sign of spiritual maturity to continually fight against those who they deem apostates or evil -- ie, those who disagree with them.

I've learned more about holding grudges from the LDS church than any other group of people. The leadership is a good example of that.

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Angel
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Re: Soul-Crushing Sins of Omission

Post by Angel » Wed Jul 11, 2018 9:18 pm

GoodBoy wrote:
Tue Jul 10, 2018 11:40 am
Supposed sins of omission is why most, very good members of the church, still hate themselves. I agree. Soul crushing.
A broken heart and a contrite spirit - that is the goal right?
men are that they might have... what kind of joy? humility is a good thing, pride is a horrible thing - there has to be some "joyful" middle ground with a yin/yang sort of mixture... not being all perfect, not being all sin - just a happy yin/yang mix and being comfortable with that combination that leads to the highs and the lows giving contrast and meaning to life.
When it is dark enough, you can see the stars. ~ Ralph Waldo Emerson

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Re: Soul-Crushing Sins of Omission

Post by slavereeno » Wed Jul 11, 2018 11:05 pm

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moksha
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Re: Soul-Crushing Sins of Omission

Post by moksha » Wed Jul 11, 2018 11:26 pm

It is hard for many members to stand up to sins of omission. However, there have been a few who have who have avoided sins of omission by standing or sitting to say it was wrong to:

1. Exclude black people from the Temple, the priesthood, and a chance to be in heaven in a non-servant capacity.
2. Believe that it was more honorable for rape victims to die than to submit to rape and live. (Miracle of Forgiveness)
3. Take part in excluding LGBT individuals from equal rights under the law.
4. Place the will of their leaders over their own innate sense of decency.

Kudos to members who did not acquiesce in allowing sins of omission to blossom into sins of commission.
Good faith does not require evidence, but it also does not turn a blind eye to that evidence. Otherwise, it becomes misplaced faith.
-- Moksha

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RubinHighlander
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Re: Soul-Crushing Sins of Omission

Post by RubinHighlander » Fri Jul 13, 2018 2:29 pm

Hagoth wrote:
Wed Jul 11, 2018 2:21 pm
RubinHighlander wrote:
Tue Jul 10, 2018 5:15 pm
...sometimes I feel guilt for not making an effort to try and help my TBM friends out of it, especially when I see them suffering from it.
So, you're saying that this sins of omission thing is a two-edged sword?
Exactly!
“Sir,' I said to the universe, 'I exist.' 'That,' said the universe, 'creates no sense of obligation in me whatsoever.”
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nehor90210
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Re: Soul-Crushing Sins of Omission

Post by nehor90210 » Sat Jul 14, 2018 10:17 pm

Hagoth wrote:
Wed Jul 11, 2018 2:26 pm
nehor90210 wrote:
Tue Jul 10, 2018 11:36 pm
...so I figured the sins of omission were just one of those "grace after all we can do" sort of things.
Which throws you into an infinite spiral, since the very nature of sins o' omission is that you aren't doing enough to achieve the status of "all we can do." In Mormonism Jesus saves us after we have done everything ourselves. But we can never do enough, so maybe Jesus should have just settled down with Mary and Martha, avoided getting nailed to things, and had a nice rest-of-his-life.
Spoken like someone who never had enough sins of commission to blame for lack of feeling the Spirit. :)
"On this spot I'll fight no more forever. Come and get me, you bastards!"

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Re: Soul-Crushing Sins of Omission

Post by mooseman » Wed Jul 25, 2018 6:32 am

RubinHighlander wrote:
Fri Jul 13, 2018 2:29 pm
Hagoth wrote:
Wed Jul 11, 2018 2:21 pm
RubinHighlander wrote:
Tue Jul 10, 2018 5:15 pm
...sometimes I feel guilt for not making an effort to try and help my TBMI'm in friends out of it, especially when I see them suffering from it.
So, you're saying that this sins of omission thing is a two-edged sword?
Exactly!
I know im late to the party but....the idea of sins of omission affects us and members even deeper than whats mentioned.
My wife chose to have an affair. 100% her choice. Yet upon learning about it, i was repeatedly and routinely asked what I could have done diffrent to prevent it? What were my short comings as a husband? Somehow, my "sins of omission", things i didnt/wasnt doing were seen as somehow providing justification fir her choice.
Was i a perfect husband? No, no one is. But only biweekly dates instead of weekly, or how i handled her anxiety, or the fact i was both working and going to school fulltime AND taking care of the kids, house ect in no way make her choice MY fault. But i was made to believe it was.
I was told by my father when what was happening came out after months of dealing with her lies and betrayals that divorce was ok ONLY if I've done everything i could do. He meant it as supportive, but there is ALWAYS something else you can do right? So you have to endure to the end, not declare it the end....

Mind you, mentally i was out by this point. But somehow the idea of "sins of omission" still held power over me because i wasnt perfect, could always do more and believed i couldn't/cant call it over despite the desire and reasons.
I think this is where love bombs come from. Why parents wail about children who leave--the concept of sins of omission teach us that THEY are to blame. If they had if been more friendly. More ridged. Gave more blessings, prayed more, ect they could have saved us. They share in our enternal damnation and are accountable for out fate.

When i was still in, i was working as a recrutier at a for profit school and had to renew my temple recomend (turned out to be the last time). When asked if i was "honest in your dealings with your fellow man" i thought of all the "omissions" i left out as part of my job. (Its a worthless degree. Your payments will be insanely prohibitive, ect) The "white lies" being in sales required me to tell (youll do great. Your the perfect match for this field.) I answered "i try"
The stake president looked right at me and said "honesty isnt something you "try". Your either honest, or your a liar, and if youre a liar you dont attend the lords house". What do you say to that?! While i got the recommend, i only used it a handful of times because within a year my shelf was gone. Must be a liar because no one is honest 100% of the time (looking back, i should have asked if that means he tells his wife she IS fat?) Even today, i feel if hells real i have a special place reaerved for me because of my "sins of omission" from working there.

The biggest irony of this is the biggest commiter of sins of ommision is the church itself. So much it leaves out, whitewashes, and spins. I get why--lying is basically trust rape; its about power over the other person. Lies of ommision "protect" that power, get you what you want. A convert, a sale, an affair. It isnt right, but it is human.

And you could have always done more; more dates, more effort, more preparation......both concepts have their limits though, but like all limits the church does a poor job of helping a person find them or accepting them.

Ill stop ranting now.
It's frustrating to see the last resort in a discussion of facts be: I disregard those facts because of my faith. Why even talk about facts if the last resort is to put faith above all facts that are contrary to your faith?

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Palerider
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Re: Soul-Crushing Sins of Omission

Post by Palerider » Wed Jul 25, 2018 8:02 am

In one of my Family Therapy classes I took at ASU, we learned that the BASIC premise for helping people to get their lives on track and begin to view their own responsibilities properly was summed up in the statement, "There is no excuse for bad behavior."

When we use other peoples actions to justify our own bad behavior we shift responsibility for our own choices on to them. Shifting blame is a false premise that lots of people use to make their bad behavior "ok".

The problem is we PAY for our own mistakes or poor behavior whether we blame others or not. It sets up a false paradigm where everyone and the world itself are out to get us and we're just helpless victims of other bad people and an unfair world.

So even if you had been a wife beater or an abusive husband (speaking theoretically) your wife's decision to have an affair was the wrong one. There are other healthy ways of dealing with a difficult situation.

It may not be the hoped for outcome but even divorce can be done with integrity and we can learn from it. As a matter of fact divorce is really only successful when both parties learn the right lessons from it, rather than thinking, "Well I'm glad I got rid of THAT problem."

If the church would concentrate and actually teach more on the principles of building great relationships instead of trying to "program" it's members to accept a uniform dogmatic approach to marriage, they would be much more successful.

As it is they create much more wreckage and unhappy or dis-satisfying marriages than they do healthy ones.

The concepts or doctrine of sins of commission and omission are only symptomatic of a deeper problem.

Edited once for grammar. :roll:
"There is but one straight course, and that is to seek truth and pursue it steadily."

"Truth will ultimately prevail where there is pains to bring it to light."

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RubinHighlander
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Re: Soul-Crushing Sins of Omission

Post by RubinHighlander » Thu Jul 26, 2018 6:36 am

mooseman wrote:
Wed Jul 25, 2018 6:32 am
I know im late to the party but....the idea of sins of omission affects us and members even deeper than whats mentioned.
My wife chose to have an affair. 100% her choice. Yet upon learning about it, i was repeatedly and routinely asked what I could have done diffrent to prevent it? What were my short comings as a husband? Somehow, my "sins of omission", things i didnt/wasnt doing were seen as somehow providing justification fir her choice.
Whoa Mooseman!

Just last night I was talking to DW about this very thing. How in my first marriage my X had three different affairs. By outside observer standards I was a stellar husband and father, but my X was narcissistic, which I didn't understand at the time. I kept forgiving her and taking her back because I felt I was under eternal damnation if I did not. Because I was a TBM I was beating myself with a big stick of guilt, fear and puzzling over sins of omission I may or may not have committed. In the prime of my 30's I got to the point of wanting to end it. I'll never forget that chilling summer night, I looked at the temple marriage cert on the wall and felt like a complete loser failure. I took my climbing rope, made a noose and rigged it up in the sycamore tree in the backyard. I sat there for four hours, agonizing, crying and slamming my fist into the grass; I had it all figured out how I'd just fall out of the tree and snap my neck. I was so distraught, but I thought of the kids and how they should never have to see something like that. So the next morning I grabbed my backpack and took off to the mountains for 3 days; it's that journey that kept me going. I hiked myself to exhaustion, rode out a thunder storm on a ridge top, put myself on the edge of cliffs, bushwhacked through thick undergrowth down steep slopes, eventually found a trail and hiked out. Nature and my stupidity could have taken my life but ended up saving it; half way through the journey I found my will to carry on.

So the title of this thread is completely accurate in my case for my past TBM deeds. Speaking of suicide, did anyone catch the last episode of Radio West on the 25th? I plan to catch up with it today. It's on the topic of the much higher than normal teen suicide rate in Utah and how the LDS church could be possibly responsible because of it's policies and teachings.
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Re: Soul-Crushing Sins of Omission

Post by Linked » Thu Jul 26, 2018 9:34 am

Palerider wrote:
Wed Jul 25, 2018 8:02 am
When we use other peoples actions to justify our own bad behavior we shift responsibility for our own choices on to them. Shifting blame is a false premise that lots of people use to make their bad behavior "ok".
For a lot of church members the problem is the opposite, and this would be rephrased as:

"When we use OUR actions to justify OTHER PEOPLES bad behavior we shift responsibility for THEIR choices on to OURSELVES. Shifting blame is a false premise that lots of people use to make OTHER'S bad behavior "ok".

It's like we are seeking something that we can do about the situation, when really there is nothing you can do because it is the other's behavior. And then that turns into feeling guilt over someone else's decisions.

But it's not cut and dry. We are all different with different strengths, weaknesses and tolerances. The definition of bad behavior is different from one person to the next.
"I would write about life. Every person would be exactly as important as any other. All facts would also be given equal weightiness. Nothing would be left out. Let others bring order to chaos. I would bring chaos to order" - Kurt Vonnegut

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Re: Soul-Crushing Sins of Omission

Post by Palerider » Thu Jul 26, 2018 10:09 am

Linked wrote:
Thu Jul 26, 2018 9:34 am
Palerider wrote:
Wed Jul 25, 2018 8:02 am
When we use other peoples actions to justify our own bad behavior we shift responsibility for our own choices on to them. Shifting blame is a false premise that lots of people use to make their bad behavior "ok".
For a lot of church members the problem is the opposite, and this would be rephrased as:

"When we use OUR actions to justify OTHER PEOPLES bad behavior we shift responsibility for THEIR choices on to OURSELVES. Shifting blame is a false premise that lots of people use to make OTHER'S bad behavior "ok".

It's like we are seeking something that we can do about the situation, when really there is nothing you can do because it is the other's behavior. And then that turns into feeling guilt over someone else's decisions.

But it's not cut and dry. We are all different with different strengths, weaknesses and tolerances. The definition of bad behavior is different from one person to the next.
Exactly. You have strengthened my point.

Many people including many church members suffer from the misconception you are describing.

By my showing the reality to those suffering from the misconception you have explained so well (which reality is that even if we have sins of omission, we're not responsible for the bad behavior of other people) it frees us from the guilt of wondering if there was anything else we could have done to help the other person stop their bad behavior.

The only place I would take exception is regarding the definition of "bad behavior". Talk to any good therapist and they can get quite specific about what constitutes bad behavior or what is normative in our society. It doesn't vary from person to person. The only thing that varies is the emotional maturity or in some cases, the level of "sanity" of every individual. And that does vary from person to person.
"There is but one straight course, and that is to seek truth and pursue it steadily."

"Truth will ultimately prevail where there is pains to bring it to light."

George Washington

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Re: Soul-Crushing Sins of Omission

Post by Linked » Thu Jul 26, 2018 11:06 am

Palerider wrote:
Thu Jul 26, 2018 10:09 am
Exactly. You have strengthened my point.

Many people including many church members suffer from the misconception you are describing.

By my showing the reality to those suffering from the misconception you have explained so well (which reality is that even if we have sins of omission, we're not responsible for the bad behavior of other people) it frees us from the guilt of wondering if there was anything else we could have done to help the other person stop their bad behavior.

The only place I would take exception is regarding the definition of "bad behavior". Talk to any good therapist and they can get quite specific about what constitutes bad behavior or what is normative in our society. It doesn't vary from person to person. The only thing that varies is the emotional maturity or in some cases, the level of "sanity" of every individual. And that does vary from person to person.
I agree, we are basically saying the same thing, just seeing Mooseman's post above yours he showed the side where people shift the responsibility for other's choices to themselves, so I thought it would add to the discussion to invert your statement.

My statement that the definition of bad behavior varies was targeted at the different norms within our society, like coffee is bad to a TBM but normal to most non-TBMs. And each individual pulls from different parts of society making fairly unique, if predictable, views on what is bad or good.
"I would write about life. Every person would be exactly as important as any other. All facts would also be given equal weightiness. Nothing would be left out. Let others bring order to chaos. I would bring chaos to order" - Kurt Vonnegut

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Re: Soul-Crushing Sins of Omission

Post by Palerider » Thu Jul 26, 2018 1:40 pm

Linked wrote:
Thu Jul 26, 2018 11:06 am

My statement that the definition of bad behavior varies was targeted at the different norms within our society, like coffee is bad to a TBM but normal to most non-TBMs. And each individual pulls from different parts of society making fairly unique, if predictable, views on what is bad or good.
I see. You are correct.

The coffee thing for Mormons, pork thing for Jews, transfusion issue for Jehovah's Witnesses etc., aren't really considered "bad behavior" over a broad spectrum of America.

But a person's choice to drink coffee should never be self-justified because their mother made them eat their broccoli.

And the mother should never feel that their child's coffee consumption might have been prevented if only they had made the child eat their spinach also.... :)
"There is but one straight course, and that is to seek truth and pursue it steadily."

"Truth will ultimately prevail where there is pains to bring it to light."

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moksha
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Re: Soul-Crushing Sins of Omission

Post by moksha » Thu Jul 26, 2018 2:02 pm

moksha wrote:
Wed Jul 11, 2018 11:26 pm
1. Exclude black people from the Temple, the priesthood, and a chance to be in heaven in a non-servant capacity.
2. Believe that it was more honorable for rape victims to die than to submit to rape and live. (Miracle of Forgiveness)
3. Take part in excluding LGBT individuals from equal rights under the law.
4. Place the will of their leaders over their own innate sense of decency.
Where have you been? The current prophets, seers, and revelators have unwritten rules allowing them to override the Great Commandment where Jesus says to love the others. Plus the Brethren can be as judgmental as they want whenever they are in Israel. Besides, how do you know those of African descent, women, and gays were not asking for it by the way they dressed?
Good faith does not require evidence, but it also does not turn a blind eye to that evidence. Otherwise, it becomes misplaced faith.
-- Moksha

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Re: Soul-Crushing Sins of Omission

Post by mooseman » Thu Jul 26, 2018 5:51 pm

Rubin, my heart goes out to you dude, but gives me hope. Well see if i reach that point.

Palerider, while i know what your saying and totatly agree, for me the problem comes into the emotional aspect of it. Its been about 2.5 since the thick of the affair, and a yearish since ahe last spoke but culturally Ive been conditioned to see it as my fault even thiugh mentally i had no responsibility to it. Like many aspects of the church, these facts LITERALLY didnt click for me until i was reading this post.
And there is the catch 22 sins of omission create--its doesn't absolve her for her choices. But it does side swipe you into bad choices.
Like Rubin, i internalized as partly my fault. Emotionally, you accept responsibility that isnt yours and that you cant resolve. By the time you can.....now it IS seen as your "fault".
For example, she last admits to "carnal intercourse" with him shortly after Christmas 2015. She was last inappropriate with him feb of 16, last spoke april of 17. To her, she insist this is long long ago and far far away. Her strategy is to pretend it sidnt happen, ignore it ect. But for me, the wounds are still fresh. I see no changes--she still doesnt take her meds (she blames her anxiety in part) still doesnt help with housework, and i feel still takes me for granted. The only change is hes gone--and thats because HE dumped HER and wouldnt take her back.
Yet, if I end it thats MY fault. Im the one not moving on, im not the one healing and forgetting. Im the one who doesnt trust her.......while i didnt set the bomb or blow up the house, im still responsible, culturally and emotionally, for the demize or the marriage. (Im sure rubin can explain that better)

All because.of sins of omission.
It's frustrating to see the last resort in a discussion of facts be: I disregard those facts because of my faith. Why even talk about facts if the last resort is to put faith above all facts that are contrary to your faith?

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Re: Soul-Crushing Sins of Omission

Post by Palerider » Thu Jul 26, 2018 8:06 pm

mooseman wrote:
Thu Jul 26, 2018 5:51 pm
Rubin, my heart goes out to you dude, but gives me hope. Well see if i reach that point.

Palerider, while i know what your saying and totatly agree, for me the problem comes into the emotional aspect of it. Its been about 2.5 since the thick of the affair, and a yearish since ahe last spoke but culturally Ive been conditioned to see it as my fault even thiugh mentally i had no responsibility to it. Like many aspects of the church, these facts LITERALLY didnt click for me until i was reading this post.
And there is the catch 22 sins of omission create--its doesn't absolve her for her choices. But it does side swipe you into bad choices.
Like Rubin, i internalized as partly my fault. Emotionally, you accept responsibility that isnt yours and that you cant resolve. By the time you can.....now it IS seen as your "fault".
For example, she last admits to "carnal intercourse" with him shortly after Christmas 2015. She was last inappropriate with him feb of 16, last spoke april of 17. To her, she insist this is long long ago and far far away. Her strategy is to pretend it sidnt happen, ignore it ect. But for me, the wounds are still fresh. I see no changes--she still doesnt take her meds (she blames her anxiety in part) still doesnt help with housework, and i feel still takes me for granted. The only change is hes gone--and thats because HE dumped HER and wouldnt take her back.
Yet, if I end it thats MY fault. Im the one not moving on, im not the one healing and forgetting. Im the one who doesnt trust her.......while i didnt set the bomb or blow up the house, im still responsible, culturally and emotionally, for the demize or the marriage. (Im sure rubin can explain that better)

All because.of sins of omission.
This false paradigm is so hard on members....

I love the way Covey explains relationship building. All healthy relationships are based on trust before anything else. Love comes further down the line from trust.

Like a bank account we make deposits of trust in the "trust account". Once in awhile we goof up and make small withdrawals from the trust account. But we quickly learn from those small, minor mistakes, apologizing, taking full responsibility, changing our way.

When we commit grievous, large magnitude "sins", we actually bankrupt the trust account. This also occurs with errors that are made consistently over time, like abuse or spending money that the marriage doesn’t have. The trust account is bankrupted.

The problem here is that just by saying we're sorry we add very, very little back into the account. The account is not only empty but in relationships it is severely wounded. Think in terms of how long it takes to heal from a near mortal wound from a large caliber weapon. It can take years. It's not like the movies. Some consequences NEVER go away. Our hearts aren't much different when they get broken.

People who want to say, "I'm sorry" and expect immediate and total forgiveness are (as Covey puts it) trying to talk themselves out of a situation they behaved themselves into. They want you to freely/magically fill the trust account back up for them without any verification of behavior change over TIME.

Trust takes time, especially after it has been betrayed.

So it depends on you how much time you want to give someone. Especially when they are re-offending during the probation period.

Whether you decide to give them a lifetime or you decide to let them work out their problems on their own as a single person is up to you. And you don't need to justify that decision to anyone. You have to do what is spiritually and emotionally healthy for you.

There's more regarding the difference between forgiveness and reconciliation but this rant has gone on long enough for now.
"There is but one straight course, and that is to seek truth and pursue it steadily."

"Truth will ultimately prevail where there is pains to bring it to light."

George Washington

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Re: Soul-Crushing Sins of Omission

Post by Palerider » Thu Jul 26, 2018 8:25 pm

One other thing mooseman.

Taking responsibility for the ignorance of the others in your culture is a wound against yourself. It's a self-inflicted blame that they are more than willing to have you inflict on yourself but they will carry none of the accompanying pain along with you.

They are happy to blame you and then go on their merry way, thanking God that they're not like you.

Classic Pharisees....

Edited for spelling. I are a haskulle gradiate.
"There is but one straight course, and that is to seek truth and pursue it steadily."

"Truth will ultimately prevail where there is pains to bring it to light."

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Re: Soul-Crushing Sins of Omission

Post by Linked » Fri Jul 27, 2018 9:00 am

Palerider wrote:
Thu Jul 26, 2018 1:40 pm
Linked wrote:
Thu Jul 26, 2018 11:06 am

My statement that the definition of bad behavior varies was targeted at the different norms within our society, like coffee is bad to a TBM but normal to most non-TBMs. And each individual pulls from different parts of society making fairly unique, if predictable, views on what is bad or good.
I see. You are correct.

The coffee thing for Mormons, pork thing for Jews, transfusion issue for Jehovah's Witnesses etc., aren't really considered "bad behavior" over a broad spectrum of America.

But a person's choice to drink coffee should never be self-justified because their mother made them eat their broccoli.

And the mother should never feel that their child's coffee consumption might have been prevented if only they had made the child eat their spinach also.... :)
Totally, I'm with you there. Maybe if she put my name on the temple prayer roll more though.

I was thinking more about this this morning. A lot of bad behavior is triggerable and predictable. Like if someone doesn't forgive their cheater spouse then the cheater spouse will have further bad behavior. It's like a lever, you pull it and something happens. The lever is not fair, and involves another person's choice, but you know there is a good chance if you do A they will do B. So you are in a position to prevent B by not doing A, even though it is not your fault and isn't fair. So by having that knowledge is there some responsibility? Is that what being the bigger person means?

ETA: Is that the definition of enabling?
"I would write about life. Every person would be exactly as important as any other. All facts would also be given equal weightiness. Nothing would be left out. Let others bring order to chaos. I would bring chaos to order" - Kurt Vonnegut

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Re: Soul-Crushing Sins of Omission

Post by RubinHighlander » Fri Jul 27, 2018 10:38 am

mooseman wrote:
Thu Jul 26, 2018 5:51 pm
Yet, if I end it thats MY fault. Im the one not moving on, im not the one healing and forgetting. Im the one who doesnt trust her.......while i didnt set the bomb or blow up the house, im still responsible, culturally and emotionally, for the demize or the marriage. (Im sure rubin can explain that better)

All because.of sins of omission.
It's like that scripture that you can only be saved by the grace of Jesus AFTER ALL YOU CAN DO! Also the one about forgiving 70 times 7. When my X had her third affair (this was over a period of a decade that she had three of them) I was once again willing to take the kick to the balls and forgive her to keep the eternal unit together, but in my heart it was killing me to think I'd be asked by God to do it again. It was a huge relief when my X filed for divorce and I'd finally be allowed to not have to subject myself to that abuse anymore. Although the divorce was a bitter one (I could write a book about it), lasting several months of pain and money spent on legal fees. Then post divorce there was more guilt when my X convinced my kids to leave the church, the loser feelings just continued to distill upon my soul. Without the church and all that BS dogma hammering me into being so submissive to a narcissist, I could have escaped so much pain and suffering all those years if the marriage would have ended after the first affair. I see now how much I was an enabler of her bad behavior.

How many couples are out there in the pit of misery and abuse because of that dogmatic and social pressure the COB heaps on them to keep it going no matter what? Especially the women folk who get more of it because the of the priesthood good old boys club. It sucks beyond sucking and the world would be way better off without the LDS church IMO!
“Sir,' I said to the universe, 'I exist.' 'That,' said the universe, 'creates no sense of obligation in me whatsoever.”
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Re: Soul-Crushing Sins of Omission

Post by oliblish » Fri Jul 27, 2018 12:35 pm

No matter what you are doing now it is not enough. One good example of this is when we are told to double our offerings. I have heard this a couple of times from leaders. What this says to me is no matter what you are paying now, it isn't enough and you need to pay more. There is no amount you can be paying now that would be considered sufficient. Not only that but the more you are paying right now, the more you are actually underpaying.

So if you are paying $100 you should be paying $200, which means you are short $100. If you are already paying $500 you really should be paying $1000, which means you are short $500.
Stands next to Kolob, called by the Egyptians Oliblish, which is the next grand governing creation near to the celestial or the place where God resides; holding the key of power also, pertaining to other planets; as revealed from God to Abraham

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