NOM

I'm not sure where this fits but whatever. I've been thinking about the emotional side of things lately and am trying to understand the physiological response to certain outward factors in the context of a religious upbringing. Let me share a few examples and then ask a few questions.

Growing up my father always had some weird internal barometer for detecting the presence of evil. He always couched it in the form of "not feeling the spirit" or perhaps better explained as "feeling the spirit leave". If us siblings were fighting with each other, he would comment that the sprit of contention was entering the home and the spirit couldn't dwell there. Beyond the simple ideas we've all heard, often times he would comment about these feelings when he met certain friends, or heard certain songs come on the radio. He would often make comments during tv shows or rented movies. Often he would make comments when a Victoria secrets commercial would interrupt a football game.

Another example is provided by a testimony meeting rant from an older lady in the ward. She shared her experience of going to a restaurant with her family and having to wait a long time to be seated. When they were met by the hostess, she seated them near the bar and how noticeable the feeling of the spirit leaving was to her. They dined at Applebee's. I wondered if she would have had the same feeling had they sat in the furthest corner possible away from the bar?

The third example I'll mention is my taste in music. I like just about all music with the exception of country music. For whatever reason, the twangy sound grates on my brain and annoys my senses. However, I do like heavy metal and when in the right feisty mood I like the screaming, incoherent, makes you want to rage stuff. My wife hates it. Especially in the car and she always comments that she feels the spirit leave.

So what causes this physiological feeling? Is it personal taste and comfort that once crossed creates an emotional reaction? Like me getting annoyed at country music? Or when a new experience is met with a tinge of uncertainty? Like landing in a new airport and trying to make your way through a new city?

Normally I can recognize these different feelings and attribute them to whatever emotional state of mind or environmental context I'm currently in. However, last night was different. We were at a store and there was a gothic couple dressed in some really strange outfits. Around the women's neck was a collar with spikes. Attached to the collar was a long silver chain that stretched from her neck and drooped down below her waist before it lead into his hand. He was in control, leading her around a foot or two behind him as he pushed the shopping cart. He briefly stopped to grab a dozen eggs pausing to open the carton, inspect for damage, then slowly turning towards her and showing her there were no broken eggs. They proceeded to shop, grabbed a gallon of milk, some cottage cheese, and some egg nog.

It was just too weird for me and I found myself staring, then shuttering with a cringe of creepiness that caused some goosebumps. It felt like the presence of evil but I couldn't quite wrap my mind around why. I've seen gothic themed movies, and people in society. I love Marylin Manson. But this time was different. Maybe it was the chain and the feelings that she wasn't there on her own free will? I dunno, but it creeped me out.

It probably wasn't the goth clothes. It was probably the fact that he was leading her around by a chain. That would be creepy no mater what style of clothes they were wearing. I think it's good that you had that reaction. It means you don't like to see someone physically dominate/humiliate another person.

The Applebee's lady? I mean who goes to Applebee's to feel the spirit? I think that "loss of the spirit" was just her insecurity being triggered. I think thats what happens most of the time. Something triggers their insecurity and the only way they can explain it is "it's evil!"

Red Ryder wrote:
Normally I can recognize these different feelings and attribute them to whatever emotional state of mind or environmental context I'm currently in. However, last night was different. We were at a store and there was a gothic couple dressed in some really strange outfits. Around the women's neck was a collar with spikes. Attached to the collar was a long silver chain that stretched from her neck and drooped down below her waist before it lead into his hand. He was in control, leading her around a foot or two behind him as he pushed the shopping cart. He briefly stopped to grab a dozen eggs pausing to open the carton, inspect for damage, then slowly turning towards her and showing her there were no broken eggs. They proceeded to shop, grabbed a gallon of milk, some cottage cheese, and some egg nog.

It was just too weird for me and I found myself staring, then shuttering with a cringe of creepiness that caused some goosebumps. It felt like the presence of evil but I couldn't quite wrap my mind around why. I've seen gothic themed movies, and people in society. I love Marylin Manson. But this time was different. Maybe it was the chain and the feelings that she wasn't there on her own free will? I dunno, but it creeped me out.

I'd have felt the presence of evil, too - that would have freaked me out. I think what you saw (this is creepy for me to even put in writing) is a bondage and submission thing. Apparently, some people enjoy either being in control or being controlled, and it can extend to physical control like that (or worse). Maybe to those who enjoy that type of thing, it would not feel evil. To me, it would feel like I was in the presence of evil to see it, and if I were in that woman's position, I'd feel that my life was in danger - or under the control of something evil.

I expect it's the result of a complex interaction of past conditioning and cognitive factors. I think there *are* some things that we by nature find annoying/creepy though. Those are things that many years of evolution have wired into us. Sounds that are grating like a crying child tend to make us want to do something to help the child and make them stop, thus leading to better survival rates. Darkness can be scary, because way back when, it WAS scary. Things in the dark could possibly eat you, so it's better to be safe than sorry.

When I was a teen and watched Waynes World in the theater, the scene where they go to the Alice Cooper concert and Feed My Frankenstein plays on stage I recall a very clear feeling of evil.

The funny thing is that I learned to love that song! IDK what caused that feeling. It isn't like I was at EFY right before that scene and could see a drastic change in the spirit. I have felt the presence of evil a few times in my life before but it was alway associated with scary movies, crazy people, fighting, etc... I agree it has to be an evolutionary thing.

The flipside is true of feeling the "Spirit" in church related ways. Our brain chemistry floods us with string feelings. They have proven that hormones and brain chemicals cause the goosebumps and good feelings we associate with the Spirit.

Similarly, I watched a show on near death experiences and they showed that the tunnel of light and feeling of peace is a biological response to anoxia and/or severe pain. Our brain struggles to focus and the field of vision narrows as our limited oxygen minimizes the brains effectiveness.

They have recreated the feeling in the lab. Even the "fainting game" teenagers play can mimic these sensations of death. Further evidence shows that our brains create a version of life after death that fits our culture and religion. Christians see Christ, Muslims see Muhammad, Hindus see Ganesh, etc...

Interesting thought RR!

I think it's relatively easy, depending on upbringing of course, to associate feelings of discomfort or unease with evil. Where Mormon culture is concerned you have verses like Galatians 5:19-23, 3 Nephi 11:2, various talks, teaching materials, and even one of the names of the spirit (The Comforter) to start associating uncomfortable feelings with evil (or a lack of righteousness). Confirmation bias can take us to next step in believing these feelings are reliable detectors of evil/loss of the spirit. Someone makes you uncomfortable and you later find out they are gay and *boom* you have your reason and confirmation of the reliability of your Spiritdar. The other guy who made you uncomfortable that you never find out about either slips your mind when considering the reliability of Spiritdar or you can blame it on that fact that there are all sorts of evils/sins/things that drive away the spirit that are easily hidden or unknown by you and so it must be one of those.

I'd likely feel uncomfortable too had I experience the situation you're describing since it violates the norms of behavior I grew up with on a couple of levels. I just intellectually wouldn't consciously connect it (these days) with evil, not in the religious sense. I also recognize that had I been raised with a different set of cultural norms, such that women should be kept on leashes in public seeing a nice married couple walking side by side and chatting would creep me out with her brazenness and upsetting of the 'proper' status quo.

Red Ryder wrote:So what causes this physiological feeling? Is it personal taste and comfort that once crossed creates an emotional reaction? Like me getting annoyed at country music? Or when a new experience is met with a tinge of uncertainty? Like landing in a new airport and trying to make your way through a new city?

Feeling the presence of evil is really subjective thing. It can't be isolated and relied upon, after all. Mormons are conditioned to "detect evil" when some experience does not meet with orthodox LDS standards. We detect that something is "wrong" or "evil" based on emotional standards of our own familiarity. Humans are not good at acknowledging the "good" in something that is "not appealing to then". Mormons who go through a faith transition have a difficult period of work and study developing standards of moral judgement that are not in lock step with the "For the Strength of Youth" pamphlet.

Ask a Mormon to identify the most entirely evil, Satanic music they can conceive. Let them testify that it is Satan's music that drives away the spirit like Led Zeppelin's "Stairway to Heaven" or Ozzy's "Bark at the Moon" or the Eagles' "Hotel California". Then burn that music onto a blank CD and mix it up with blank CDs filled with "Music and the Spoken Word" from Easter and Christmas. Now get that spiritually sensitive person to "detect evil" and consistently pick out that CD from this randomized, double-blinded experiment. They will fail.

MalcolmVillager wrote:When I was a teen and watched Waynes World in the theater, the scene where they go to the Alice Cooper concert and Feed My Frankenstein plays on stage I recall a very clear feeling of evil.

Alice Cooper is actually a really kind individual who has done great charity work for decades. His music is overtly designed to attract teenagers filled with the normal, rebellious angst and understand them along with coaxing them into a better direction. Alice Cooper cannot created music that is attractive to the conservative parents and also to rebellious youth. Youth want to rebel and having Alice Cooper as a destination is objectively far better than many more destructive alternatives.