I am now in a live and let live phase of my journey. Where are you?

This is for encouragement, ideas, and support for people going through a faith transition no matter where you hope to end up. This is also the place to laugh, cry, and love together.
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hiding in plain sight
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I am now in a live and let live phase of my journey. Where are you?

Post by hiding in plain sight » Fri Aug 10, 2018 8:19 am

On day one of waking up, I felt lost and disoriented.

I spent quite a few years at the beginning thrashing around and damaging some of my most important relationships. In retrospect, I feel that I behaved that way because I was trying to force other to understand me. I wanted to be understood and accepted.

And that need for being understood came across as confrontational and disrespectful to others.

I remember one day where my wife told me to just stop. That I was ruining the church experience for her.

During church I would lean over and point out anytime someone said something that wasn't true. It was kind of a knee jerk reaction.

Fast forward to today.

I am much more comfortable in my own skin. I don't feel this overwhelming need for people to understand me and to know my journey.

Fortunately, my personal relationships have all settled back down and we are in a good place supporting each other for where we are and don't spend any time trying to change each other.

8+ years in I am willing to live an let live.

If someone wants to get in my face, I don't walk way. But I engage from a place of confidence and a place of understanding. As opposed to a place of insecurity and defensiveness, where I was in the beginning.

Where are you now in the journey?

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Angel
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Re: I am now in a live and let live phase of my journey. Where are you?

Post by Angel » Fri Aug 10, 2018 9:03 am

Thanks for posting this, I am really trying to bite my tongue, and "live and let live".

Yesterday I took care of an elderly lady in our ward (drove her to the hospital and spent the day with her there) - she had a LGBT child who died of aids and handled the situation wonderfully so I like her and her family. Last night I babysat kids while our "worthy" friends attended the temple. Someone from the "temple-going" crowd just posted "I love how the very first thing we learn in reading the Book of Mormon is that God answers the prayers of the faithful! Also, “because thou art merciful, thou wilt not suffer those who come unto thee that they shall perish!” - I just about went postal, felt like goodie-two-shoes looking down on me for not being worthy...I must not be "faithful" because my family is cursed... but I retrained myself.

the full context:
13 And he read, saying: Wo, wo, unto Jerusalem, for I have seen thine abominations! Yea, and many things did my father read concerning Jerusalem—that it should be destroyed, and the inhabitants thereof; many should perish by the sword, and many should be carried away captive into Babylon.
14 And it came to pass that when my father had read and seen many great and marvelous things, he did exclaim many things unto the Lord; such as: Great and marvelous are thy works, O Lord God Almighty! Thy throne is high in the heavens, and thy power, and goodness, and mercy are over all the inhabitants of the earth; and, because thou art merciful, thou wilt not suffer those who come unto thee that they shall perish!


What I wanted to post:
Lehi is pretty smug... thou wilt not suffer those who come unto thee that they shall perish?? so... all of the innocents in Jerusalem - all of the children who were carried away captive - I guess they were not worthy of G-d's mercy... Laman and Lemuel were saved despite not being faithful so... who is G-d merciful to again?

I did not post it. I'll continue to take care of their kids and grandparents, let them look down on me for not having a TR and not going to mtgs... whatever - smile on my face... There is a beautiful Krishna temple near my home, think I will go to that one instead.
When it is dark enough, you can see the stars. ~ Ralph Waldo Emerson

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hiding in plain sight
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Re: I am now in a live and let live phase of my journey. Where are you?

Post by hiding in plain sight » Fri Aug 10, 2018 11:42 am

Angel wrote:
Fri Aug 10, 2018 9:03 am

I did not post it. I'll continue to take care of their kids and grandparents, let them look down on me for not having a TR and not going to mtgs... whatever - smile on my face... There is a beautiful Krishna temple near my home, think I will go to that one instead.
And this is where the dance come in to play.

Many times we just have to shrug and move on, despite having just heard something very hurtful. Most of the time I can justify this with the thought that "they don't really know what they just said". "They don't really get how that could be hurtful to someone else, because they are just seeing the world with a partial vision".

But then there are sometimes where I do feel compelled to speak up.

But the way I try to do this sometimes is by making an observation and asking a question.

So in this case, if I felt compelled to respond, I would have said something like this.

"It's great to have this belief that God blesses the righteous and has their backs. How does this belief play out for the stake presidency member who's daughter died while on her mission? Then a year later his wife died of cancer. And then a year later his grandchild died in her crib?" "I would hate to feel that this stake presidency member somehow feels that God is punishing him and his family and turning a deaf ear to their pleas."

True story.

Mackman
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Re: I am now in a live and let live phase of my journey. Where are you?

Post by Mackman » Fri Aug 10, 2018 12:52 pm

Thanks for posting hiding in plain site . I too have found that live and let live is best. I used to be like you were a while back pointing out certain aspects of the faith I disagreed with. I now just let others talk and am very confident with where I am at on my faith journey and d not feel the need to point it out to any others . My wife has accepted my unorthodoxy and just lets me live the faith as I see fit. Congrats on finding peace and it is my heartfelt prayer that others can do the same.

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Angel
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Re: I am now in a live and let live phase of my journey. Where are you?

Post by Angel » Fri Aug 10, 2018 1:31 pm

hiding in plain sight wrote:
Fri Aug 10, 2018 11:42 am

"It's great to have this belief that God blesses the righteous and has their backs. How does this belief play out for the stake presidency member who's daughter died while on her mission? Then a year later his wife died of cancer. And then a year later his grandchild died in her crib?" "I would hate to feel that this stake presidency member somehow feels that God is punishing him and his family and turning a deaf ear to their pleas."

True story.
It's great to have this belief that God blesses the righteous and has their backs. How does this belief play out... for the faithful RS president whose HP husband was just convicted of .... leaving her a single mom without work experience (TBM women stay-at-home...)....

True story with the most horrible details left out... won't post that either.

So nice to be able to post it here where it is safe.

Thanks so much NOM - for being a safe place for everyone to vent.
When it is dark enough, you can see the stars. ~ Ralph Waldo Emerson

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Linked
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Re: I am now in a live and let live phase of my journey. Where are you?

Post by Linked » Fri Aug 10, 2018 2:58 pm

When I first realized I didn't believe I just ignored it for a couple years.

Then I accepted that I didn't believe and started exploring what that meant. At the beginning I thought that even the tone of NOM 1.0 was too angry. I thought people were too hard on the church and the people, and that their anger wasn't fair. This changed as I let myself explore what my new beliefs meant about the church I began to find myself getting angry about each different injustice too. I think I've explored most of the injustices in one way or another now. I still get mad when I bump into them or read about them.

I'm angry. When my dad preaches to me I let him know my views, and he lets me know his. He's nice enough to listen, and I'm nice enough to listen. It's nice. This morning my dad started talking about a scripture from the book of Abraham and I asked him if he knew about it's origin. He told me he knew that I didn't believe it's origin. Then my mom piped in and told him that it really wasn't a translation from the scrolls, that it is on the church website. That was a surprise. Go mom!

Maybe someday I won't feel compelled to ask him if he knows the history behind the scriptures he quotes. But for now I am a missionary. I'm not uncomfortable with my beliefs, I just want to share them. I can't with DW, cause it would ruin our marriage, but my relationship with my parents seems to be ok so far.
"I would write about life. Every person would be exactly as important as any other. All facts would also be given equal weightiness. Nothing would be left out. Let others bring order to chaos. I would bring chaos to order" - Kurt Vonnegut

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slavereeno
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Re: I am now in a live and let live phase of my journey. Where are you?

Post by slavereeno » Fri Aug 10, 2018 4:19 pm

I am less than 2 years in, still hiding, but to those who know, I thrash and revile the church. I want to show everything to my kids and get them the hell out. Its all still raw and I feel vulnerable and alone.

Thanks for posting HIPS I have hope the the future may get better.
Last edited by slavereeno on Fri Aug 10, 2018 5:38 pm, edited 2 times in total.

IT_Veteran
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Re: I am now in a live and let live phase of my journey. Where are you?

Post by IT_Veteran » Fri Aug 10, 2018 4:51 pm

I have good days and bad days. They're all angry days, but I'm more vocal about it sometimes. The last couple of weeks I've just mostly been sharing things about Sam's movement. Yesterday my wife shared his blog post about pornographic questions being asked to our kids. I spent the day correcting TBM's including the SP's wife, a high councilman, a wife of one of the bishop's counselors, and some random TBM that loves to both say we should protect our kids, and that we can't protect them from everything.

And then last night my wife posted the article from Medium, I think it's called "They can leave the church, but they can't leave the church alone" or something similar. It's an amazing article. The author talks about how it feels leaving the church, why it's scary, and the trauma that it causes to our relationships with people that care about us. The main point of the article was that we just want to feel heard. We want to be understood. We want our relationships to be real, and not just based on our membership in the church.

The absolute best part about the article was the author's recognition that believing members don't have to agree with the non-believers, but they need to understand that what we feel is real. If we feel we've been lied to and deceived, they may disagree. But they have to recognize that our feelings are just as valid as theirs, and that it's not their job to correct our feelings.

The same random TBM jumped on there and said it's a great article, "but I don't agree that 'the Church does not equip believers with the tools they need to truly socialize with people who have different beliefs'." I told her she didn't understand the article at all. That it doesn't matter if she agrees with it or not - real people are going through this every day. I'm going through it. I listed some of the shit that's been said to me since announcing my disaffection to family, though I didn't call anyone out by name or relationship. If they see it, they'll know I'm talking about them.

I'm sorry this went longer than I thought. I guess it's just more evidence of how angry I am right now.

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Zack Tacorin Dos
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Re: I am now in a live and let live phase of my journey. Where are you?

Post by Zack Tacorin Dos » Fri Aug 10, 2018 9:09 pm

I am now in a live and let live phase of my journey. Where are you?
They still hold my wife hostage.
They accepted tens of thousands of my hard-earned, much-needed dollars, all based on false pretenses.
They create a culture of shame that harms so many people, including my queer child.
I just watched Spotlight.

I am now in a BITFDWT phase (again).

P.S. Spotlight is an amazing movie.

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Zack Tacorin Dos
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Re: I am now in a live and let live phase of my journey. Where are you?

Post by Zack Tacorin Dos » Fri Aug 10, 2018 9:16 pm

slavereeno wrote:
Fri Aug 10, 2018 4:19 pm
I want to show everything to my kids and get them the hell out.
I'm probably preaching to the choir here, but be patient. Over the years I hardly said a snide remark about the Church to my kids. Each and every one is out now. Love them and dedicate your life to their wellbeing. I think they'll most likely see a huge contrast between your love and dedication and the lack of concern the institution of the Church has for them.

Best wishes my friend,

Zack

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