"If you can't feel the spirit you are the problem..."

This is for encouragement, ideas, and support for people going through a faith transition no matter where you hope to end up. This is also the place to laugh, cry, and love together.
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Evil_Bert
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"If you can't feel the spirit you are the problem..."

Post by Evil_Bert » Sun Aug 12, 2018 1:53 pm

The lesson today in EQ was horribly condescending. Thanks to a friend of the teacher who came out on Facebook about leaving the church we got to hear about how much we are at fault if we don't feel the spirit. We are to blame if God will only help us find our keys but won't testify to us the truthiness of the BoM or the church. We need to be damn near perfect for god to tell us if what we are doing is right. It was painful to watch the mental gymnastics that some really good people were putting themselves through. I gave up and left about 20 minutes in.

And Cameron, if you are on here thanks for your post and giving me a reason to leave EQ early.
Last edited by Evil_Bert on Mon Aug 13, 2018 12:31 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Illegitimi non carborundum.

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vankimber
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Re: "If you can't feel the spirit you are the problem..."

Post by vankimber » Sun Aug 12, 2018 4:07 pm

Ugh. How does anyone find inspiration in being browbeaten? The first part of the statement isn’t even necessary, because whatever the difficulty might be, we will be told, “You are the problem. You are the problem. You are the problem.”

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2bizE
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Re: "If you can't feel the spirit you are the problem..."

Post by 2bizE » Mon Aug 13, 2018 9:17 am

I’ve always wanted to just make up my own rules in my ward and then enforce them against the members. This would bring me a huge spiritual uplift, and would increase my power in the church.
~2bizE

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didyoumythme
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Re: "If you can't feel the spirit you are the problem..."

Post by didyoumythme » Mon Aug 13, 2018 9:41 am

It seems like these lessons are mostly about making members feel good about themselves. If they can dismiss all criticism with the wave of a hand, they don’t have to do the hard work of making sense of everything.

As soon as members honestly ask themselves “is there a chance this isn’t true”, they start down the path of enlightenment! That’s the last thing the church wants.
When an honest man discovers he is mistaken, he will either cease being honest, or cease being mistaken. - Anonymous

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MoPag
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Re: "If you can't feel the spirit you are the problem..."

Post by MoPag » Mon Aug 13, 2018 9:44 am

vankimber wrote:
Sun Aug 12, 2018 4:07 pm
Ugh. How does anyone find inspiration in being browbeaten?
Oh my gods! Right? It's like browbeating is the only thing the church knows how to do. Ugh!! :roll:
...walked eye-deep in hell
believing in old men’s lies...--Ezra Pound

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slavereeno
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Re: "If you can't feel the spirit you are the problem..."

Post by slavereeno » Mon Aug 13, 2018 11:26 am

MoPag wrote:
Mon Aug 13, 2018 9:44 am
vankimber wrote:
Sun Aug 12, 2018 4:07 pm
Ugh. How does anyone find inspiration in being browbeaten?
Oh my gods! Right? It's like browbeating is the only thing the church knows how to do. Ugh!! :roll:
This is how I felt after every General Conference priesthood meeting. My dad used to joke about how bad he felt afterwards (and that he deserved it for being a man). The only spirits I felt in PM were boredom and shame.

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blazerb
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Re: "If you can't feel the spirit you are the problem..."

Post by blazerb » Tue Aug 14, 2018 8:46 pm

didyoumythme wrote:
Mon Aug 13, 2018 9:41 am
It seems like these lessons are mostly about making members feel good about themselves. If they can dismiss all criticism with the wave of a hand, they don’t have to do the hard work of making sense of everything.

As soon as members honestly ask themselves “is there a chance this isn’t true”, they start down the path of enlightenment! That’s the last thing the church wants.
This is exactly right. Meanwhile, the ones with questions and doubts feel lousy. But the only ones who speak up, in our ward at least, are the TBM's that overwhelm any questions and make it look like everyone believes what is taught. It's awful.

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Dravin
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Re: "If you can't feel the spirit you are the problem..."

Post by Dravin » Wed Aug 15, 2018 3:02 am

To be fair that fits the overall pattern of, "Have an issue with X? The problem is you and never the church." So you gotta give them props for consistency.
Hindsight is all well and good... until you trip.

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Corsair
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Re: "If you can't feel the spirit you are the problem..."

Post by Corsair » Wed Aug 15, 2018 8:10 am

Dravin wrote:
Wed Aug 15, 2018 3:02 am
To be fair that fits the overall pattern of, "Have an issue with X? The problem is you and never the church." So you gotta give them props for consistency.
Ironically, this is the opposite approach of Joseph Smith who had a problem with every other religion so he started his own. This is also a bit disengenuous for LDS missionaries since generating interest in Mormonism means that investigators have to stop feeling the spirit in their former faith. So, yes, the problem is never the LDS church. By definition it's always you.

Reuben
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Re: "If you can't feel the spirit you are the problem..."

Post by Reuben » Wed Aug 15, 2018 10:21 am

Corsair wrote:
Wed Aug 15, 2018 8:10 am
Dravin wrote:
Wed Aug 15, 2018 3:02 am
To be fair that fits the overall pattern of, "Have an issue with X? The problem is you and never the church." So you gotta give them props for consistency.
Ironically, this is the opposite approach of Joseph Smith who had a problem with every other religion so he started his own. This is also a bit disengenuous for LDS missionaries since generating interest in Mormonism means that investigators have to stop feeling the spirit in their former faith. So, yes, the problem is never the LDS church. By definition it's always you.
Also ironically, not even the person believed to be the son of God demonstrated that kind of hubris.
Anyone who chooses to do the will of God will find out whether my teaching comes from God or whether I speak on my own.

John 7:17 (NIV)
So... the person who should have been the most confident that his message was from God straight-up admitted the possibility that someone could honestly decide he made it all up. Yet with the church, the problem is you if you don't fall in line, if it's not working for you, or if you can't believe it. Hmmmm.

It's bravado and posturing. It says "I'm confident" while suppressing the thought "but I'm afraid I might be wrong."
Not all those who wander are lost.

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