Elder Hamula?

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2bizE
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Elder Hamula?

Post by 2bizE » Fri Oct 12, 2018 6:35 am

Elder Hamula was exed a little over a year ago. Has anyone heard if he has made it back into the church, and whether he will rise again to the 70s?
http://www.gapages.com/hamuljj1.htm
~2bizE

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wtfluff
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Re: Elder Hamula?

Post by wtfluff » Fri Oct 12, 2018 7:24 am

Last rumor I read was he had filed for divorce.

Nothing else.

Seems he has basically disappeared, so the excommunication worked.
Faith does not give you the answers, it just stops you asking the questions. -Frater Ravus

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sunstoned
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Re: Elder Hamula?

Post by sunstoned » Sat Oct 13, 2018 7:55 pm

There are scans of the divorce documents on Reddit. He filed in July of this year.

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Palerider
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Re: Elder Hamula?

Post by Palerider » Sun Oct 14, 2018 12:19 pm

I would have assumed that Hamula would have had the 2nd anointing. Wondering why they would ex him and not Joseph Bishop?
"There is but one straight course, and that is to seek truth and pursue it steadily."

"Truth will ultimately prevail where there is pains to bring it to light."

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Re: Elder Hamula?

Post by Corsair » Mon Oct 15, 2018 10:23 am

Palerider wrote:
Sun Oct 14, 2018 12:19 pm
I would have assumed that Hamula would have had the 2nd anointing. Wondering why they would ex him and not Joseph Bishop?
Elder Hamula was too public and honest within his own family and within his leadership hierarchy. In contrast, Joseph Bishop kept his indiscretion quiet well past the statute of limitations. Enough time has past so that his victims look like they are simply dredging up unsubstantiated rumors or are causing emotional distress to an old man who surely repented through proper priesthood channels many years ago.

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alas
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Re: Elder Hamula?

Post by alas » Mon Oct 15, 2018 10:38 am

Corsair wrote:
Mon Oct 15, 2018 10:23 am
Palerider wrote:
Sun Oct 14, 2018 12:19 pm
I would have assumed that Hamula would have had the 2nd anointing. Wondering why they would ex him and not Joseph Bishop?
Elder Hamula was too public and honest within his own family and within his leadership hierarchy. In contrast, Joseph Bishop kept his indiscretion quiet well past the statute of limitations. Enough time has past so that his victims look like they are simply dredging up unsubstantiated rumors or are causing emotional distress to an old man who surely repented through proper priesthood channels many years ago.
So, basically, Joseph Bishop lied about it to his church authorities, while Elder Hamula made the church look bad.

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Yobispo
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Re: Elder Hamula?

Post by Yobispo » Mon Oct 15, 2018 10:40 am

Corsair wrote:
Mon Oct 15, 2018 10:23 am
Palerider wrote:
Sun Oct 14, 2018 12:19 pm
I would have assumed that Hamula would have had the 2nd anointing. Wondering why they would ex him and not Joseph Bishop?
Elder Hamula was too public and honest within his own family and within his leadership hierarchy. In contrast, Joseph Bishop kept his indiscretion quiet well past the statute of limitations. Enough time has past so that his victims look like they are simply dredging up unsubstantiated rumors or are causing emotional distress to an old man who surely repented through proper priesthood channels many years ago.
I hate your reply so much. Because it is exactly what happened and how they view old "sins". Yuck. But you nailed it.

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Re: Elder Hamula?

Post by wtfluff » Mon Oct 15, 2018 12:48 pm

Corsair wrote:
Mon Oct 15, 2018 10:23 am
Palerider wrote:
Sun Oct 14, 2018 12:19 pm
I would have assumed that Hamula would have had the 2nd anointing. Wondering why they would ex him and not Joseph Bishop?
Elder Hamula was too public and honest within his own family and within his leadership hierarchy. In contrast, Joseph Bishop kept his indiscretion quiet well past the statute of limitations. Enough time has past so that his victims look like they are simply dredging up unsubstantiated rumors or are causing emotional distress to an old man who surely repented through proper priesthood channels many years ago.

Hold on... I've only every read that Hamula likely had an affair, and was fired because of that.

Is there evidence of some sort of abuse with Hamula?
Faith does not give you the answers, it just stops you asking the questions. -Frater Ravus

Keep the company of those who seek the truth - run from those who have found it -Václav Havel

Who taught you how to hate?

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Palerider
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Re: Elder Hamula?

Post by Palerider » Mon Oct 15, 2018 1:52 pm

wtfluff wrote:
Mon Oct 15, 2018 12:48 pm



Hold on... I've only every read that Hamula likely had an affair, and was fired because of that.



Hamula had an affair? I thought the church let out that his problem was neither a faith crisis or a sexual transgression.

I guess of the two, the church would really prefer the affair. To have a GA go belly up on historicity would be much more damaging.
"There is but one straight course, and that is to seek truth and pursue it steadily."

"Truth will ultimately prevail where there is pains to bring it to light."

George Washington

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Re: Elder Hamula?

Post by wtfluff » Mon Oct 15, 2018 2:25 pm

Palerider wrote:
Mon Oct 15, 2018 1:52 pm
wtfluff wrote:
Mon Oct 15, 2018 12:48 pm



Hold on... I've only every read that Hamula likely had an affair, and was fired because of that.



Hamula had an affair? I thought the church let out that his problem was neither a faith crisis or a sexual transgression.

I guess of the two, the church would really prefer the affair. To have a GA go belly up on historicity would be much more damaging.

Isn't an affair a "sexual transgression"?

I'm not aware that the church let out anything about sexual transgression, but they did "mention" that the termination had nothing to do with a faith crisis.
Faith does not give you the answers, it just stops you asking the questions. -Frater Ravus

Keep the company of those who seek the truth - run from those who have found it -Václav Havel

Who taught you how to hate?

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Palerider
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Re: Elder Hamula?

Post by Palerider » Mon Oct 15, 2018 2:42 pm

wtfluff wrote:
Mon Oct 15, 2018 2:25 pm


Isn't an affair a "sexual transgression"?

I'm not aware that the church let out anything about sexual transgression, but they did "mention" that the termination had nothing to do with a faith crisis.
Definitely.

Affair=sexual transgression.

I'm probably mis-remembering. I think you're right. The church only mentioned it wasn't a faith crisis.
"There is but one straight course, and that is to seek truth and pursue it steadily."

"Truth will ultimately prevail where there is pains to bring it to light."

George Washington

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wtfluff
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Re: Elder Hamula?

Post by wtfluff » Mon Oct 15, 2018 3:51 pm

Palerider wrote:
Mon Oct 15, 2018 2:42 pm
wtfluff wrote:
Mon Oct 15, 2018 2:25 pm


Isn't an affair a "sexual transgression"?

I'm not aware that the church let out anything about sexual transgression, but they did "mention" that the termination had nothing to do with a faith crisis.
Definitely.

Affair=sexual transgression.

I'm probably mis-remembering. I think you're right. The church only mentioned it wasn't a faith crisis.

:D I just realized that I missed the "n" in your statement and read it as "either a faith crisis or sexual transgression."
Faith does not give you the answers, it just stops you asking the questions. -Frater Ravus

Keep the company of those who seek the truth - run from those who have found it -Václav Havel

Who taught you how to hate?

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Red Ryder
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Re: Elder Hamula?

Post by Red Ryder » Mon Oct 15, 2018 4:36 pm

Church said it wasn't a faith crisis.

Speculation ran rampant that it was money/expense report shenanigans tied to New Zealand.

Some family member got on FB and claimed they were praying for his wife and alluded it was an affair.

Who really gives a shit what happened.

When will the disaffected Mormon crowd stop parading this guy around as if he's some special poster child? Whatever happened, happened and he's out! If he comes back he comes back!! If he doesn't then he doesn't.

I don't feel bad for him for a second. His privilege ran out and he'll never make it back to his former status. The church doesn't work that way. We all know sinners can repent but The Church NEVER forgets.
Those who do not move do not notice their chains. —Rosa Luxemburg

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Corsair
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Re: Elder Hamula?

Post by Corsair » Tue Oct 16, 2018 9:20 am

Yobispo wrote:
Mon Oct 15, 2018 10:40 am
I hate your reply so much. Because it is exactly what happened and how they view old "sins". Yuck. But you nailed it.
I hate it also. I have very low expectations of divine justice even as I really try to live a Christian life in the face of profound cosmic uncertainty amid silent heavens. We can't fix the problems of the past. We can only hold ourselves accountable and try to personally do better.
alas wrote:
Mon Oct 15, 2018 10:38 am
So, basically, Joseph Bishop lied about it to his church authorities, while Elder Hamula made the church look bad.
You can do just about anything you want as an LDS leader as long as you are halfway competent and don't make the church look bad. This is not to say that the church will condone your actions at all, but as long as you don't raise a scandal then you can get away with a lot as long as you are not caught. My favorite story is Richard Lyman, the apostle who carried on a 20 year affair before he was caught and excommunicated. He sat in a meeting with President Heber J. Grant weekly and no one detected a disturbance in the Force. Lyman tripped up and was ex'ed before he could embarrass the church further.
Red Ryder wrote:
Mon Oct 15, 2018 4:36 pm
When will the disaffected Mormon crowd stop parading this guy around as if he's some special poster child? Whatever happened, happened and he's out! If he comes back he comes back!! If he doesn't then he doesn't.
I completely agree with Red Ryder's assessment. We truly don't know what Hamula did and it's clear that no one connected with the church or his family wants to make it public. It might be interesting if he were to appear on an upcoming episode of "Mormon Stories", but I really don't care. If Hamula were to actually meet with John Dehlin, it won't make a difference to the believer in any of the innumerable mixed-faith marriages in the church or on this forum. I'm more interested in a dozen secular interests that simply makes the LDS church increasingly irrelevant to me.

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Re: Elder Hamula?

Post by wtfluff » Tue Oct 16, 2018 11:59 am

Red Ryder wrote:
Mon Oct 15, 2018 4:36 pm
When will the disaffected Mormon crowd stop parading this guy around as if he's some special poster child? Whatever happened, happened and he's out! If he comes back he comes back!! If he doesn't then he doesn't.
Dang it! I didn't know Hamula was a poster child, or that I was supposed to look up to him as such. Somebody please fill me in!

Palerider's question is quite interesting though: If Hamula's transgression was in fact sexual, why was he exed? (Since he's more than likely been 2nd-anointed.)

Again: Why him, and not Bishop? Bishop "confessed" his transgression, yet he remains a member.

Now that I type this out... It seems more likely that Hamula made some "mistakes" with the church's money. Sexual transgressions ain't nothin'... Mess with the church's $$$, and It's outer darkness for you; Your 2nd anointing don't mean a thing!
Faith does not give you the answers, it just stops you asking the questions. -Frater Ravus

Keep the company of those who seek the truth - run from those who have found it -Václav Havel

Who taught you how to hate?

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Rob4Hope
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Re: Elder Hamula?

Post by Rob4Hope » Tue Oct 16, 2018 1:03 pm

I'm laughing as I read this. The church doesn't care about your membership at all; it only cares about how you make the church look.

Period.

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alas
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Re: Elder Hamula?

Post by alas » Tue Oct 16, 2018 1:13 pm

wtfluff wrote:
Tue Oct 16, 2018 11:59 am
Red Ryder wrote:
Mon Oct 15, 2018 4:36 pm
When will the disaffected Mormon crowd stop parading this guy around as if he's some special poster child? Whatever happened, happened and he's out! If he comes back he comes back!! If he doesn't then he doesn't.
Dang it! I didn't know Hamula was a poster child, or that I was supposed to look up to him as such. Somebody please fill me in!

Palerider's question is quite interesting though: If Hamula's transgression was in fact sexual, why was he exed? (Since he's more than likely been 2nd-anointed.)

Again: Why him, and not Bishop? Bishop "confessed" his transgression, yet he remains a member.

Now that I type this out... It seems more likely that Hamula made some "mistakes" with the church's money. Sexual transgressions ain't nothin'... Mess with the church's $$$, and It's outer darkness for you; Your 2nd anointing don't mean a thing!
I was wondering if he might have embezzled some church funds, because the only thing the church cares about more than how it looks in the press is $$$$$$.

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Rob4Hope
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Re: Elder Hamula?

Post by Rob4Hope » Tue Oct 16, 2018 1:17 pm

Rob4Hope wrote:
Tue Oct 16, 2018 1:03 pm
I'm laughing as I read this. The church doesn't care about your membership at all; it only cares about how you make the church look.

Period.
PS. I just read something out on Reddit from Joseph Fielding Smith about adultery and the whole forgiveness for it (or not). In the back of my mind, I can't think of a more heinous cult religion as what LDS people put people through. Sexual transgression is a problem and bad...yes. But this whole concept is treated in such a unilateral and evil way that the damage done to those who subscribe to the faith is worse in many cases, IMHO, than the nature of the offense.

You are telling me, SWK and JFS that two youth, one a RM, who are making out in the back seat of the car and things go a little too far, have done something right next to MURDER in seriousness?...that they are worse than bank robbers or extortioners?...that they have potentially forfeited their place in the CK?

And this from a man (JFS) who lied about church history for decades when he cut a paper out of the journal and hid it, and only until years later when the Tanner's applied pressure was it revealed?

I am not hijacking this thread--but let me close by saying JFS...you are a big fat A$$. Your ancestor JS jr. was the biggest adulterer there ever was...and you defend him because you, yourself, are dishonest.

I sure hope you never masturbated in your life cuz that would make you a heathen.

nuff said.

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