NOM

Plates=catalyst
Papyri=catalyst
Masons=catalyst

If the Plates weren't "translated" and were only a catalyst: Why can't an arrowhead or bone (see Zephi vision) unlock the doors of heaven and let the sealed portion out?

If the Papyri were only a catalyst: Why not use them again?

If the Masonic Rites were only a catalyst: Where is the search for other rites and ordinances?

If "translation" means "automatic writing" or "channeling" or "revelation" or "opening our spiritual eyes" why ISN'T it happening?

Answer? The Church members are not righteous enough. Engage guilt devices:

Social Media Fast.
Read Book formerly known as Book of Mormon.
More Temple attendance.
Defeat Porn.
Defeat Marijuana.
Defeat Divorce.
Defeat everything unholy...except hunger--we can leave that alone...or homelessness...or lack of education...or disease...

Every time that Joseph Smith is caught stealing material or lying about the source, it becomes a catalyst.

That now applies to:

-Book of Abraham papyrus
-Masonic Ceremony
-Adam Clarke's Bible commentaries
-Emanuel Swedenborg and the multiple tiers of heaven
-Sidney Rigdon bringing the idea of the Melchizedek and Aaronic priesthoods from the Campbellites
-Word of wisdom being lifted from the temperance movement
-First vision being stolen from Solomon Chamberlain, who just happened to show the Smiths his own first vision just before Joseph wrote a shockingly similar one
-Non infant baptism which was a movement gaining ground during his lifetime
-All of the names in the Book of Mormon that happened to be in Charles Anthon's dictionary of names

Easy.

"You 'caught-a-lot-a-list' of things I made up or plagiarized."

Brent wrote: ↑Sat Feb 02, 2019 9:25 am
If the Plates weren't "translated" and were only a catalyst: Why can't an arrowhead or bone (see Zephi vision) unlock the doors of heaven and let the sealed portion out?

If the Papyri were only a catalyst: Why not use them again?

If the Masonic Rites were only a catalyst: Where is the search for other rites and ordinances?

If "translation" means "automatic writing" or "channeling" or "revelation" or "opening our spiritual eyes" why ISN'T it happening?

Taking this in a slightly different direction, it is interesting to think about how various artifacts sparked Joseph's imagination and story-telling genius - actually acting as creative catalysts of a sort.

• Find an odd-looking rock while digging a well? Hey, that could be a seer stone!
  
  Find an old bone in a burial mound? What a great start to a tale about a mighty warrior!
  
  Mummies and papyri wind up at your door? Wow - maybe these contain writings of Abraham!

Say what you will, the guy had a great talent for riffing on the influences in his environment. People clearly enjoyed the tales he spun.

Strangely, the "catalyst theory" is likely closer to the truth than the official correlated story. Just substitute imagination for inspiration.

Phil Lurkerman wrote: ↑Sat Feb 02, 2019 2:30 pm
Strangely, the "catalyst theory" is likely closer to the truth than the official correlated story. Just substitute imagination for inspiration.

I'd agree with this.

Joseph's entire life was intersected with catalysts that excited his imagination.

Which made him a good story teller. Which if used properly would make him a fun, charismatic and interesting person to be around.

However if used improperly it could (and did) make him an excellent flim-flam man, soothsayer and womanizer.

Pretty sad when you think about how some people use their talents for good and some for self-aggrandizement.

Joseph Smith was an amazing storyteller - there is a reason his family talked about how he used to tell the stories of the Book of Mormon people before he actually wrote it out.

And he able to absorb anything he could find and re-purpose it for his own needs. I listened to podcast from Mormon Expressions where they talked about how baptism for the dead was basically from Joseph talking at a funeral and riffing on the idea on the fly... and then later clarifying it through a letter to the high council (i think). He literally pulled it out of thin air because he was trying to comfort someone @ the funeral, and then turned it into what people take as an ordinance from God.

The guy would've been the most amazing and dirty politician ever if he lived today -- he wouldn't be a prophet because people would be able to disprove his nonsense immediately, but he would've seen that coming and just been the most corrupt political figure you'd ever see.

A controlled experiment with a catalyst would be something like placing Dr. Daniel C. Peterson in a 95 F vat of water with 20% Epsom salts and a palladium rod as a catalyst while playing Vivaldi's Four Seasons in the background. The experimental part would be looking for increased emissions of methane and sulfur dioxide.

This is a perfect out for any BYU student who is caught plagiarizing. "Oh no, I didn't copy so-and-so's work, I used it as a catalyst!"

Hagoth wrote: ↑Sat Feb 09, 2019 2:20 pm This is a perfect out for any BYU student who is caught plagiarizing. "Oh no, I didn't copy so-and-so's work, I used it as a catalyst!"

I love this.

Having a sexual affair with the young Fanny Alger was a catalyst for pleural marriage.