Mr. and Mrs. Græy's Stuff

Discussions about negotiating relationships between faithful LDS believers and the apostates who love them. This applies in particular to mixed-faith marriages, but relations with children, parents, siblings, friends, and ward members is very welcome.
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græy
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Re: Mr. and Mrs. Græy's Stuff

Post by græy » Fri May 31, 2019 9:09 am

I wanted to document a couple of small victories that happened recently.

DW is still VERY insistent on family scripture study. That means we read from the illustrated scripture stories books with our youngest and later read from NT to cover the Come Follow Me assignments for the week, every. single. night.

This past week, we hit stories about Adam/Eve and the Flood. DW was reading, youngest was sort-of listening, and strangely enough the older kids were following along with the stories. After DW finished the chapter, the older kids started asking questions. (They recently hit upon evolution in school, so I think that may have driven some of these thoughts.)

Were Adam and Eve brother and sister? Did their kids marry their brothers/sisters? Were their parents apes?

I thought it was great! DW was clearly annoyed. But to her credit she explained that some scripture stories were simply the way people tried to explain things to the best of their understanding a long time ago. Since thousands of years ago, people did not understand evolution, they told the story about Adam and Eve as if there was nothing to come before them. Today we understand that things probably happened very differently than the Adam and Eve story says.

She was clearly caught off guard and stumbled a bit trying to get those thoughts out. I spoke up and helped clarify that point and also added that even if the story didn't happen the way the scriptures say, there are things we can learn from the stories, and that is why we read them.

A very similar conversation happened a few days later after reading about Noah.

That was a big step for her. In the past she was never willing to admit that evolution might be a thing because that would mean she'd have to draw a line between one generation being "children of God with eternal potential" and "apes."

I love my kids with their honesty inquiries and science-y backgrounds!
I'm better than dirt... well most dirt. Not that fancy store bought stuff, I can't compete with that... full of nutrients and everything. -Moe Sizlack

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slavereeno
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Re: Mr. and Mrs. Græy's Stuff

Post by slavereeno » Sun Jun 02, 2019 4:26 pm

That sounds fantastic. A little nuance goes a long way.

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græy
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Re: Mr. and Mrs. Græy's Stuff

Post by græy » Tue Jun 25, 2019 10:14 am

Another small victory.

This week DW was reading from OT Stories to the kids. She was reading from the chapter that introduces Lehi. It mentions how the people didn't listen tot he prophets who were warning them that Jerusalem would be destroyed, and then this line...
The Jews heard the prophets, but they did not repent. God sent the king of Babylon and his army to destroy Jerusalem.
DW stopped reading for a second and thought. Then she spoke up, "I don't think God sent the army to destroy them. There is a natural consequence when we do bad things. But, I don't think God sends extra punishments against us."

This opened up another discussion about how the OT was written from a very tribalistic perspective. It was written by a specific group trying to send a very specific message to another specific group and try and elicit certain behavior.

I wanted to point out the priests and scribes, even prophets, at the time were using fear to motivate change among the people, but I didn't say anything else.

DW continued reading. The story goes on describing how the soldiers stole gold and silver from the temple. They burned the temple to the ground along with many homes and the wall around the city. It was all very uplifting for the children, I'm sure (/s). DW was able to check that mark off her list for the day, and I smiled on the inside when DW openly disagreed with "scripture."
I'm better than dirt... well most dirt. Not that fancy store bought stuff, I can't compete with that... full of nutrients and everything. -Moe Sizlack

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slavereeno
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Re: Mr. and Mrs. Græy's Stuff

Post by slavereeno » Tue Jun 25, 2019 11:37 am

Yes I had one of those moments a couple of years ago. DW was reading from the BoM in 4th Nephi and she remarked that the numbers were ridiculous, that they didn't add up. At least one generation had to be having kids past their 100th birthday.

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græy
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Re: Mr. and Mrs. Græy's Stuff

Post by græy » Fri Jun 28, 2019 9:08 am

slavereeno wrote:
Tue Jun 25, 2019 11:37 am
Yes I had one of those moments a couple of years ago. DW was reading from the BoM in 4th Nephi and she remarked that the numbers were ridiculous, that they didn't add up. At least one generation had to be having kids past their 100th birthday.
That is something we have discussed a few times, but I don't think it has clicked with her yet. There are many times throughout the BoM where the Nephite/Lamanite birthrates and population growth rate has to have significantly exceeded ours today in order to build population like they do.

You just look back 150 years to see that lots of babies and mothers died at birth. Lots of people didn't live into or past their 30's. Populations just did not grow they way the BoM seems to imply, especially with those massive wars.
I'm better than dirt... well most dirt. Not that fancy store bought stuff, I can't compete with that... full of nutrients and everything. -Moe Sizlack

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græy
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Re: Mr. and Mrs. Græy's Stuff

Post by græy » Mon Jul 08, 2019 9:49 am

Yesterday our family read from Acts 3 where Peter and John heal the lame man. The NT says nothing but that it was done through the name of Jesus Christ. The Come Follow Me manual, of course, extrapolates that it was really done by the power of priesthood.

As DW explained that part to the kids they were suddenly amazed, "Dad can heal people!?" Then, worse, they looked directly at me and asked, "Can you really heal people like that?" I really felt like a deer in the headlights.

I have blessed dozens upon dozens of people to be healed from things like flu, colds, kidney stones, even traumatic injuries from a high fall. Once or twice, the sickness has seemingly disappeared within hours of the blessing. That includes the (Dr. diagnosed) kidney stones, which I am still at a loss to fully explain.

That said, I don't believe my success rate at magically healing people is any greater than the rate of those people outside of the church who are "magically" healed without priesthood blessings.

Further, if priesthood blessings really worked, why isn't Utah the medical mecca of the modern world? In reality, it is no different from any other state in terms of health, sickness, mysterious healings, or raisings from the dead.

So why did my wife stare at me last night, with an hopeful smile, waiting for me to confirm my kids' new step in faith promoting pride? No one is ever healed by priesthood blessings. They often take comfort, I'll grant that. And that comfort may provide cathartic healing. But beyond that, it is placebo and misplaced faith. The evidence is all there, but TBMs refuse to see it.

In the end I answered, "That is what the scriptures say." DW chimed in that it requires faith, to which the kids followed up, "Dad, do you have faith like that?" I thought for a second and replied as honestly as I could, "I don't think I do."

I tried to relate my story of the kidney stones. I wanted to explain that we can give blessings, we can give comfort and support, however, the ability to heal is not up to us. But by then they had lost interest, so that is where it ended.
I'm better than dirt... well most dirt. Not that fancy store bought stuff, I can't compete with that... full of nutrients and everything. -Moe Sizlack

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slavereeno
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Re: Mr. and Mrs. Græy's Stuff

Post by slavereeno » Wed Jul 17, 2019 9:18 am

Conversations like this were a pretty big source of stress for me. I mean being put on the spot to affirm something I didn't really believe in. I once "healed" someone from a nervous breakdown that was interpreted as a demonic attack. I used to tell the story in a very faith promoting way. It is interesting how these kinds of faith promoting stories morph over time like fishing stories. The fish gets a little bigger every time the story is told. I don't think I ever intended for my faith-y stories to be deceitful, but they probably ended up going that direction unintentionally, or subconsciously.

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græy
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Re: Mr. and Mrs. Græy's Stuff

Post by græy » Sat Jul 20, 2019 9:40 pm

slavereeno wrote:
Wed Jul 17, 2019 9:18 am
Conversations like this were a pretty big source of stress for me. I mean being put on the spot to affirm something I didn't really believe in.
This has been getting worse for me. Due to my calling I occasionally get asked to speak to youth or even the adults about things. I recently had to artfully dodge giving testimony about the temple. It is getting now difficult to find anything I really feel good saying in church.
I'm better than dirt... well most dirt. Not that fancy store bought stuff, I can't compete with that... full of nutrients and everything. -Moe Sizlack

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