More Conversation with DW

This is for encouragement, ideas, and support for people going through a faith transition no matter where you hope to end up. This is also the place to laugh, cry, and love together.
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Deepthinker
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More Conversation with DW

Post by Deepthinker » Tue Feb 12, 2019 5:05 pm

So, I started a conversation last night with DW that lasted for several hours. I don't know that it was the best way to start it, but I just said: "do you know why I've been distant lately?"

She had commented earlier in the day that I seem distant, so I was trying to explain that.

She didn't know why. So I told her that part of it is because of the depression, but the other part is that I have been questioning whether she loves me, or if she only loves the Mormon me.

I told her how hurtful her non-responsiveness was when I opened up to her about my suicidal thoughts several months ago. How I've been starting to feel as she's said things like that she has accepted we're just friends in this life and I won't take her to the Celestial kingdom, and that it feels like she's pushing me away and doesn't truly love me.

She finally asked why I am depressed! Finally! I told her, about the church, about how I feel like our marriage is only “church deep”, that maybe she only loves the “Mormon me” which isn’t really love, that I’ve lived my entire life making decisions based on what some man-made religion I was raised in tells me to do and all this depresses me.

She disagreed and said that it's because I've turned my back on the church and that I will only be happy if I return to the church, that my depression will go away if I do.

I didn’t know what else to say, I can’t convince her of the reasons I’m depressed.

Much more we talked about, some of her issues she has with me, like how she feels that I'm more arrogant now. She definitely has some valid beefs with me, I won't deny those. I don't feel like going into it all here.

I'm really thinking we need marriage counseling.

Wonderment
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Re: More Conversation with DW

Post by Wonderment » Tue Feb 12, 2019 7:59 pm

As someone who has been married for 45 years ;) , I have found marriage counseling to be extremely useful. A good therapist can give feedback to you and your wife which will help in your understanding of each other's motives and emotions. Try to find a therapist who is not part of LDS Social Services and who provide counseling on a secular approach -- meaning, not based on the COJCOLDS.
If your wife's belief is that you can overcome your depression by returning to church, then that is entirely wrong IMO. A good therapist can help her understand why that belief is not useful or productive in your marriage. JMO --- Wndr.

Mackman
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Re: More Conversation with DW

Post by Mackman » Tue Feb 12, 2019 8:03 pm

Deepthinker : Hang in there many of us are in the same boat. Your post could have easily been about me and my wife. Yes she is the same as yours , I dont have anything inspiring to offer you except we Nomies are here for you !!!!!! . All the best Mackman.

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Not Buying It
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Re: More Conversation with DW

Post by Not Buying It » Wed Feb 13, 2019 6:13 am

She is absolutely wrong about the depression going away if you go back to Church. To be fair, she is just repeating the empty, useless promises the Church has fed her all of her life, but she couldn’t be more wrong.

I’d also recommend marriage counseling if you can talk her into it, but would echo the sentiment to avoid LDS Social Services. Their agenda is to help keep people in the Church, their counselors are all Church members whose employment depends on their faithfulness to the Church, and your point of view probably isn’t going to get a fair shake in a counseling situation.

I am so sorry, that is a tough situation to be in.
"The truth is elegantly simple. The lie needs complex apologia. 4 simple words: Joe made it up. It answers everything with the perfect simplicity of Occam's Razor. Every convoluted excuse withers." - Some guy on Reddit called disposazelph

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jfro18
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Re: More Conversation with DW

Post by jfro18 » Wed Feb 13, 2019 9:04 am

So sorry -- it's such a helpless feeling when we see things and our spouse can't even open up to it because they've been raised to fear anything that might contradict the idea that the church is the only way.

I hope you find some common ground to move forward on -- marriage therapy/counseling is also a great idea if your wife will go. I'm doing that now with DW and we've only gone 3-4 times so I can't speak to how helpful it will be (after a few sessions I will say it does bring up a lot of fears/bad feelings too), but I think it does give an avenue to be more open and honest when a 3rd party can help steer the conversation when it's hitting roadblocks.

Good luck... feel free to message me anytime if you want to vent/talk through things/whatever.

Kishkumen
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Re: More Conversation with DW

Post by Kishkumen » Wed Feb 13, 2019 9:55 am

Well.... shit.

This is no bueno. While my experiences are not identical, I can feel your pain.

Yes, marriage counseling can help - but not LDS family services!

Hang in there, your family is worth saving even if you don't make it to the CK.

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Red Ryder
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Re: More Conversation with DW

Post by Red Ryder » Wed Feb 13, 2019 11:13 am

She disagreed and said that it's because I've turned my back on the church and that I will only be happy if I return to the church, that my depression will go away if I do.
Time to give her Holland's conference talk about depression. :lol:

Is divorce an option for you?
Those who do not move do not notice their chains. —Rosa Luxemburg

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Deepthinker
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Re: More Conversation with DW

Post by Deepthinker » Wed Feb 13, 2019 4:04 pm

Kishkumen wrote:
Wed Feb 13, 2019 9:55 am
Well.... shit.

This is no bueno. While my experiences are not identical, I can feel your pain.

Yes, marriage counseling can help - but not LDS family services!

Hang in there, your family is worth saving even if you don't make it to the CK.
Thanks Kish, I will see if she will do counseling with me. She may insist on LDS family services, we'll see.

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Deepthinker
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Re: More Conversation with DW

Post by Deepthinker » Wed Feb 13, 2019 4:10 pm

Red Ryder wrote:
Wed Feb 13, 2019 11:13 am
She disagreed and said that it's because I've turned my back on the church and that I will only be happy if I return to the church, that my depression will go away if I do.
Time to give her Holland's conference talk about depression. :lol:

Is divorce an option for you?
I feel like it is an option, yes.

That reminds me of part of the conversation I didn't mention. She asked me to promise to never leave her. I told her I couldn't promise that right now.

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MalcolmVillager
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Re: More Conversation with DW

Post by MalcolmVillager » Wed Feb 13, 2019 4:20 pm

I understand this feeling of being unable to promise that. At the same time, this can cause some serious fear for her. It is hard to draw boundaries while insisting your are 100% committed but that is what you need to do here.

I agree that counseling should be in your future.

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SoJo
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Location: South Jordan Utah

Re: More Conversation with DW

Post by SoJo » Tue Feb 19, 2019 9:11 am

If anyone is interested; My FIL (and MIL) are Marriage & Family Therapists in South Jordan. Both are out of the church.

My FIL, Veon Smith, has counseled many on this board (at least the old board). He's a PhD, in his 70's and super compassionate. He's helped save a few marriages for NOM's.

http://www.jvcounseling.com/

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hiding in plain sight
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Re: More Conversation with DW

Post by hiding in plain sight » Tue Feb 19, 2019 9:50 am

Deepthinker wrote:
Tue Feb 12, 2019 5:05 pm

I didn’t know what else to say, I can’t convince her of the reasons I’m depressed.

Much more we talked about, some of her issues she has with me, like how she feels that I'm more arrogant now. She definitely has some valid beefs with me, I won't deny those. I don't feel like going into it all here.

I'm really thinking we need marriage counseling.
My heart goes out to you on this one. It is tough when the part of our lives that can give us great happiness can turn into the part of our lives that can give us great pain.

I am impressed with how vulnerable you are being with your wife. I would agree that counseling is a good path that could provide safe space for both of you to rebuild upon common ground.

I offered to my own TBM spouse to do counseling early on. Which she refused.

For the first two years, she was definitely just enduring me and our marriage in our new state. But have hope. By opening up and focusing on her and pulling out of what she needed in our marriage (short of asking me to unring the bell), it gave her space to hear me and what I needed from our marriage as well.

We are now 7 years past that new beginning and on solid ground again as friends and married partners.

All the best on the journey. You are not alone. I know that doesn't take away the pain. But you are seen and understood.

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