Nephites in Indiana and Illinois?

[Palerider]

The following is an excerpt from a letter to Emma Smith from Joseph while he traveled through Indiana and Illinois with Zion's Camp. Wasn't sure if you all were familiar with it but it points out most assuredly where Joseph believed the Nephites were located.

Joseph begins describing how enjoyable it is traveling with a group of....."social, honest men and sincere men, wandering over the plains of the Nephites, recounting occasionaly the history of the Book of Mormon, roving over the mounds of that once beloved people of the Lord, picking up their skulls & their bones, as a proof of its divine authenticity...."

So either the human remains they were "picking up" were those of the Nephites and testified of the authenticity of the BoM; (putting to rest the limited geography theory)....or Joseph got it completely wrong and neither the mounds nor the bones were evidence or testimony of the BofM.

Rather, they were simply relatively recently deceased Native Americans and the mounds were archeological phenomenon that had nothing to do with the BofM.

Any bets on what modern archeologists would say?

[jfro18]

And this is exactly why apologists who claim Joseph Smith was able to tell the Book of Mormon stories before even having the plates because he was given the stories in detailed visions are screwed.

So either Joseph Smith just made it up as he went along (which is backed up by evidence), or he was given a vision of Book of Mormon history that was just completely wrong from angels of God.

Take your pick -- either Joseph Smith lied or God is incompetent.

[Hagoth]

Between this letter, the statements Joseph made about Zelph's mound, and the many times the Lord refers to the indigenous people of that area as Lamanites, it should be pretty easy to zero in on some archaeological support for the BoM there.

Zelph’s burial mound, now known to archaeologists as Naples Mound 8, is just outside of Griggsville, Illinois. It seems like this should be exciting news to Mormon apologists. Joseph Smith told us exactly where to find DNA evidence of real Nephites and Lamanites!

So why aren’t church-employed anthropologists and geneticists crawling all over that region collecting genetic proof for the Book of Mormon? Why aren’t BYU archaeologists excavating at Griggsville? Why are they ignoring that actual physical evidence and instead sitting around thinking up apologetic excuses? They obviously know the effort wouldn't be worth the inevitable disappointment.

[blazerb]

I just listened to a podcast in which a literalist apologist takes on all the pastoral apologists who say that the BoM could be "true" even if the events did not occur. You can find it here, but I don't recommend spending the time: http://www.ldsperspectives.com/2019/02/ ... ok-mormon/. The thing that is never addressed is the reason why so many apologists are abandoning historicity of the BoM.

There's this steady retreat from being able to know anything. As a TBM, you are told that the BoM is historical and JS told all these wonderful stories about the ancient inhabitants of America. Then you find out those stories don't make sense. Then you are told that JS spoke with limited understanding and we don't know where the Lehites lived but they were "principal ancestors" of the native Americans. Then you find out that's impossible. So you are told that the events of the BoM occurred in a limited area and the genes were washed out centuries ago because there just weren't that many descendants of Lehi and Mulek. Then you find out that people have looked in many potential sites and find nothing suggesting the BoM is historical, but there's still so much area to search. The whole time no one tries to explain why the BoM answers 18th century theological questions so thoroughly while leaving out relevant items that might help out today. So the pastoral apologists tell you that the church is so potentially good and the BoM is inspired whether or not it's true. "Potentially good" because they know there are so many problems with church teachings. Meanwhile, the leaders are still trying to get people to believe the first position and don't publicly acknowledge the pastoral folks. However, it's clear that the leaders know and encourage the pastoral efforts because it keeps people in the church.

This whole thing is deceptive.

[moksha]

It seems likely that many of the Elvis sightings since the 1980s have been due to the Three Nephites emulating the king.

[Reuben]

Guys. You're thinking about this wrong.

Let me help you reframe things. Joseph was always right, except when he was wrong. But when he was wrong, there was always some sense in which he was right. Therefore, Joseph was always right. QED.

(QED stands for quod erat demonstrandum, which is Latin for "go back to church.")

Here's another useful way to reframe things. If you consider only the times when Joseph was right, he was always right. It's dangerous to your soul to think of his behavior as loading up a shotgun with stories and theology, shooting it at a target, and expecting us to ignore everything that didn't hit the bullseye.

It seems likely that many of the Elvis sightings since the 1980s have been due to the Three Nephites emulating the king.

That's amazing. Do you think one of them might have also appeared to David W. Patten as Cain? Could one of them have been lying for the Lord to provide us with a faith-promoting rumor?

Did I tell you about the time one of them dragged Zelph's remains from Guatemala to a mound in Illinois?

[blazerb]

It seems likely that many of the Elvis sightings since the 1980s have been due to the Three Nephites emulating the king.

I think it's Alma.