NOM

This makes me sad for my wife and daughter.

Wow. That's a compelling visual which really conveys the truth of inequality. I'm saving that one for the next time that the "equally yoked" argument is brought up by TBM's. Thanks, from Wndr.

It makes me sad for me that I grew up thinking this was totally normal and okay, too. Visuals like this help me realize that my feelings about it are totally valid.

What makes me even sadder is when I talked with my wife about this and she not only accepts it but defends it.

I made a comment on that photo earlier and this was a response I got from a random believer: "As a woman I resent the way you talk down to me and others, as if we are victims of some horrible crime. I respect the leaders of the church, regardless of whether they are men or women. You do realize that 3 of the 6 auxiliaries of the church are lead by women, right?"

jfro18 wrote: ↑Mon Apr 08, 2019 4:58 pm What makes me even sadder is when I talked with my wife about this and she not only accepts it but defends it.

I made a comment on that photo earlier and this was a response I got from a random believer: "As a woman I resent the way you talk down to me and others, as if we are victims of some horrible crime. I respect the leaders of the church, regardless of whether they are men or women. You do realize that 3 of the 6 auxiliaries of the church are lead by women, right?"

Thank you for doing that jfro18. Deep down that woman knows its wrong. But she's putting a lot of energy into ignoring the hurt she feels. I was there once too.

Recently, Aunt Wendy and Sherri Dew shares in an interview with an Italian reporter how men and women are equal in the church. He needs to put this in his article.

MoPag wrote: ↑Mon Apr 08, 2019 7:03 pm

jfro18 wrote: ↑Mon Apr 08, 2019 4:58 pm What makes me even sadder is when I talked with my wife about this and she not only accepts it but defends it.

I made a comment on that photo earlier and this was a response I got from a random believer: "As a woman I resent the way you talk down to me and others, as if we are victims of some horrible crime. I respect the leaders of the church, regardless of whether they are men or women. You do realize that 3 of the 6 auxiliaries of the church are lead by women, right?"

Thank you for doing that jfro18. Deep down that woman knows its wrong. But she's putting a lot of energy into ignoring the hurt she feels. I was there once too.

I think there might be more going on. I'm reasoning by analogy to my daughter's sexuality.

Two things mainly upset her: 1) church leaders increasing prejudice against LGBT people, and 2) LGBT people online telling her that she's a victim. From my point of view, she totally is, but that doesn't crack the top 10 most important things about her. From her point of view, she might be, but she doesn't want to think about it.

I wonder if accepting the message comes down to delivery. Anything that sounds like "You're a victim!" will rarely ring true to people who have willingly (as they suppose) given themselves as sacrifices. It might be more effective to say something like, "Sister Eubank's talk was far and away the best talk in GC. I wish we could hear more from our amazing female leaders."

Reuben wrote: ↑Mon Apr 08, 2019 8:04 pm I wonder if accepting the message comes down to delivery. Anything that sounds like "You're a victim!" will rarely ring true to people who have willingly (as they suppose) given themselves as sacrifices. It might be more effective to say something like, "Sister Eubank's talk was far and away the best talk in GC. I wish we could hear more from our amazing female leaders."

I think that's fair, and I think any of us who are in a mixed faith marriage can attest to how important delivery is.

In my case, my initial spilling of all the church issues absolutely made my with retrench further and she hasn't looked back. That's not to say a softer delivery would've changed anything, but I think going about it softer would've eliminated that "you're a victim, how could you believe this BS?" thought that spilling it all out did.

People who believe are going to do some serious mental tricks to avoid thinking about it, and the persecution complex is a surefire way to do so. Taking away that option might help to get a more productive conversation and lead to deeper thinking, although that's really hard to do with such an emotional topic.

Sister Eubanks talk was easily the best talk given at GC.

Carven on the other hand..Well let's just say her choice of dress was very spot on.

I think the problem is that the word “victim” no longer means an innocent person harmed by another. It now means, “You stupid idiot, how the hell could you let that happen” or it means, “quit whining and get a life.”

There is a “self help” movement that started in about 1990 that actually accuses people of “playing victim” when they get injured, no matter their reaction to the injury. It teaches that you ALWAYS have control over what happens to you, and that you just want excuses, and things to complain about if you get hurt. It is *extreme* victim blaming. It has taken the idea of “playing victim” that sometimes is valid and taken it to the extreme, so it is no longer just people who use an old injury that they should of healed from by now and cling to it as an excuse for their failed life. They use it to slam people who are still injured and laying there bleeding. An example. My MIL took that “self help” course and we were camping with them. I sliced my hand open, so I quit what we were doing to go clean out and bandage the wound. I was not whining, or “oh poor me” or using it as an excuse to stop living for the rest of my life. But my jerk MIL followed me around as I got clean water and washed the cut and got the bandages and bandaged it up and the whole time she followed me around accusing me of “playing victim” bla bla bla.

So, this attitude of victim blame has been spreading on top of all the old victim blame to change the meaning of victim from someone who is innocently hurt by someone else’s crime, into complainers, whiners, those who sit around and do nothing but complain about how bad they have it in life, and those who bring disaster on themselves so they have an excuse, like the kid who purposely falls in the race so he has an excuse for not winning. So, the battered wife who stays because she doesn’t know how to feed her children if she leaves, she doesn’t need help. No, she needs a kick in the butt.

So, now, calling someone a victim has all these negative connotations of bringing it on themselves, plus the “unhealthy” reaction of complaining, instead of........?