Primary kid interviews?

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Mormorrisey
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Primary kid interviews?

Post by Mormorrisey » Wed Jul 10, 2019 4:59 am

Holy smokes. Apparently in a recent survey, the church is now floating the idea of having one on one interviews with kids starting as young as 8. Oh yes they are:

https://kutv.com/news/local/lds-church- ... om-12-to-8

This is literally the most tone deaf thing I've seen at church since our Elder's quorum decided to sing "Ye Elders of Israel" on Mother's Day. I'm still in shock that they are willing to risk this PR nightmare and for what? What would be the purpose of this? To ensure the "covenant path" is being trod on by even the youngest? Is that worth the societal backlash? What the heck are these people doing? Hopefully this gets shut down quick now that it's out there in the public eye. Even as I write this, I'm amazed that after the Sam Young black eye and the Martinsburg case they are so tone deaf and out of touch as to suggest this absolute nonsensical idea. I'm flabbergasted at the audacity of this.

Un-freaking believable.
"And I don't need you...or, your homespun philosophies."
"And when you try to break my spirit, it won't work, because there's nothing left to break."

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blazerb
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Re: Primary kid interviews?

Post by blazerb » Wed Jul 10, 2019 5:31 am

It seems to me like it's the action of a true believer who is certain that the problems in the church are caused by parents being too lax. Therefore, the kids need to be kept in line by various leaders. It's all nonsense. I wonder how high this goes. I would guess that a survey sent to members would have to be approved by the Q15. If it came from the very top, it will be interesting to see if anyone can talk sense to them. I'm not convinced that anyone can. How do you argue with revelation to RMN if you are totally in? (And by "totally in" I mean financially dependent on the church.)

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Not Buying It
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Re: Primary kid interviews?

Post by Not Buying It » Wed Jul 10, 2019 5:32 am

Yep, incredibly tone deaf. And a really terrible idea. But thy are losing so many of them when they get to be teens, they probably feel like they’ve gotta do something to try and head that off.
"The truth is elegantly simple. The lie needs complex apologia. 4 simple words: Joe made it up. It answers everything with the perfect simplicity of Occam's Razor. Every convoluted excuse withers." - Some guy on Reddit called disposazelph

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jfro18
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Re: Primary kid interviews?

Post by jfro18 » Wed Jul 10, 2019 6:14 am

I saw this yesterday and thought it had to be a photoshopped interview... but I got into the survey and it was legit.

My assumption is that the church knows they are losing kids earlier and earlier now and are trying to establish authority over them earlier so that they have a harder time getting away.

It's a *terrible* PR move and it is gross to think that 8-11 year old kids need worthiness interviews. It's such a bad idea that the only real surprise is that the church didn't try doing it sooner.

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wtfluff
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Re: Primary kid interviews?

Post by wtfluff » Wed Jul 10, 2019 7:31 am

Mormorrisey wrote:
Wed Jul 10, 2019 4:59 am
Holy smokes. Apparently in a recent survey, the church is now floating the idea of having one on one interviews with kids starting as young as 8.
They ALREADY interview every 8-year-old who "wants" to get baptized, along with every 11-year-old who "advances" from primary... So what's the big deal with adding a few more "interviews?" (YES - the last sentence is SARCASM.)

Mormorrisey wrote:
Wed Jul 10, 2019 4:59 am
I'm still in shock that they are willing to risk this PR nightmare and for what? What would be the purpose of this?
They younger they start pounding the fear/guilt/shame cycle into kids, the earlier they will break their will, and those kids will remain brainwashed longer and give the church MORE MONEY!

It's all about the $$$.
Faith does not give you the answers, it just stops you asking the questions. -Frater Ravus

Keep the company of those who seek the truth - run from those who have found it -Václav Havel

Brilliant.

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Mormorrisey
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Re: Primary kid interviews?

Post by Mormorrisey » Wed Jul 10, 2019 7:45 am

wtfluff wrote:
Wed Jul 10, 2019 7:31 am
Mormorrisey wrote:
Wed Jul 10, 2019 4:59 am
Holy smokes. Apparently in a recent survey, the church is now floating the idea of having one on one interviews with kids starting as young as 8.
They ALREADY interview every 8-year-old who "wants" to get baptized, along with every 11-year-old who "advances" from primary... So what's the big deal with adding a few more "interviews?" (YES - the last sentence is SARCASM.)
Absolutely true, I forgot about those. Apparently he survey asked what kinds of questions should be asked in these interviews, and one of the potential answers was "worthiness." For an 8 year old? We shame them that young? Good grief. I remember feeling so awkward with an 8 year old kid in my office, I ended up just asking them how school was going, about their friends, how they liked church and their favourite TV shows and/or Disney movies. In fact, my very first interview was with my own 8 year old kid a week after I was called, so we spent the time poking around Daddy's new office in lieu of asking worthiness questions.

But this is nuts, glad I don't have to do this anymore.
"And I don't need you...or, your homespun philosophies."
"And when you try to break my spirit, it won't work, because there's nothing left to break."

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nibbler
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Re: Primary kid interviews?

Post by nibbler » Wed Jul 10, 2019 8:57 am

jfro18 wrote:
Wed Jul 10, 2019 6:14 am
My assumption is that the church knows they are losing kids earlier and earlier now and are trying to establish authority over them earlier so that they have a harder time getting away.
Yeah, there must be a reason someone in leadership believed this was a good idea. The best I could come up with:

Leaders are attempting to address the issue of youth going inactive when they leave the home. I bet one of the answers was "get them on the covenant path" which translated to getting kids to the temple sooner. Anyone that has been baptized (8 year olds) could be eligible to attend the temple but you gotta have a temple recommend to go to the temple and you gotta interview people to give them a recommend. Revelation, let's interview the 8 year olds to both get them attending the temple and to ensure that they don't veer off the path that keeps them in church.

Kids go inactive because church is boring. Kids go inactive because the church is not relevant in their lives. Adding helicopter leaders into the mix doesn't make the church less boring or more relevant. In fact adding more authoritarianism may cause more to leave. But I forgot one key element, with True churches it's...

Image

The obsession with worthiness needs to die. Leaders should be moving away from all worthiness interviews for both adults and minors alike, not extending the damned practice.
We see things not as they are, but as we are ourselves. - H.M. Tomlinson

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Not Buying It
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Re: Primary kid interviews?

Post by Not Buying It » Wed Jul 10, 2019 9:26 am

nibbler wrote:
Wed Jul 10, 2019 8:57 am
jfro18 wrote:
Wed Jul 10, 2019 6:14 am
My assumption is that the church knows they are losing kids earlier and earlier now and are trying to establish authority over them earlier so that they have a harder time getting away.
Yeah, there must be a reason someone in leadership believed this was a good idea. The best I could come up with:

Leaders are attempting to address the issue of youth going inactive when they leave the home. I bet one of the answers was "get them on the covenant path" which translated to getting kids to the temple sooner. Anyone that has been baptized (8 year olds) could be eligible to attend the temple but you gotta have a temple recommend to go to the temple and you gotta interview people to give them a recommend. Revelation, let's interview the 8 year olds to both get them attending the temple and to ensure that they don't veer off the path that keeps them in church.

Kids go inactive because church is boring. Kids go inactive because the church is not relevant in their lives. Adding helicopter leaders into the mix doesn't make the church less boring or more relevant. In fact adding more authoritarianism may cause more to leave. But I forgot one key element, with True churches it's...

Image

The obsession with worthiness needs to die. Leaders should be moving away from all worthiness interviews for both adults and minors alike, not extending the damned practice.
Authoritarian organizations think that more authorianism is the answer to everything. More youth are leaving the Church? We need to get more pushy and oppressive than we already are!

I am hopeful the public backlash convinces them this isn't a good idea.
"The truth is elegantly simple. The lie needs complex apologia. 4 simple words: Joe made it up. It answers everything with the perfect simplicity of Occam's Razor. Every convoluted excuse withers." - Some guy on Reddit called disposazelph

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græy
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Re: Primary kid interviews?

Post by græy » Wed Jul 10, 2019 9:29 am

DW and I read the (KSL?) news article about this last night. She admitted to feeling troubled about the possibility of interviews with children that young.

In her words, the church obviously can't determine which bishops are safe and which are not. This just gives those (admittedly few) a larger, even more vulnerable group of kids to prey upon.

It was hard not to dog-pile on the church's bad decisions and missteps. But we just left it there. Its a bad idea all around.
I'm better than dirt... well most dirt. Not that fancy store bought stuff, I can't compete with that... full of nutrients and everything. -Moe Sizlack

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nibbler
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Re: Primary kid interviews?

Post by nibbler » Wed Jul 10, 2019 9:40 am

I don't want to make it sound as if I'm diminishing the very serious problem of physical abuse that could occur with this change but I think the potential for emotional abuse is very high. The obsession with worthiness is already a problem among adults. Exposing small children to the idea that god may not consider them worthy could set them up for a lifetime of feeling unnecessary guilt and shame.

Scrupulosity is already a big problem in the church. Making children question their worth will only make it worse.
We see things not as they are, but as we are ourselves. - H.M. Tomlinson

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wtfluff
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Re: Primary kid interviews?

Post by wtfluff » Wed Jul 10, 2019 10:12 am

nibbler wrote:
Wed Jul 10, 2019 9:40 am
The obsession with worthiness is already a problem among adults. Exposing small children to the idea that god may not consider them worthy could set them up for a lifetime of feeling unnecessary guilt and shame.
Let's be real here: Unnecessary guilt and shame are what "the church" (and literally all religion) is/are built on. It's hard to sell a remedy for a non-existent illness; But make up an illness (worthiness/guilt/shame) and then your "remedy" becomes valuable, and people will give you 10% of their money to buy that remedy. (Even if the remedy DOESN'T WORK.)
Faith does not give you the answers, it just stops you asking the questions. -Frater Ravus

Keep the company of those who seek the truth - run from those who have found it -Václav Havel

Brilliant.

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græy
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Re: Primary kid interviews?

Post by græy » Wed Jul 10, 2019 10:44 am

nibbler wrote:
Wed Jul 10, 2019 9:40 am
I don't want to make it sound as if I'm diminishing the very serious problem of physical abuse that could occur with this change but I think the potential for emotional abuse is very high. The obsession with worthiness is already a problem among adults. Exposing small children to the idea that god may not consider them worthy could set them up for a lifetime of feeling unnecessary guilt and shame.
This is where the end of my conversation with DW was focused. Children should feel nothing but loved. You simply cannot feel judge someone without them walking away feeling... judged. Like somehow their worthiness, their worth, is based on the outcome of that judgement. That is something that no eight year old should ever have to even consider.
I'm better than dirt... well most dirt. Not that fancy store bought stuff, I can't compete with that... full of nutrients and everything. -Moe Sizlack

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Red Ryder
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Re: Primary kid interviews?

Post by Red Ryder » Wed Jul 10, 2019 11:03 am

The problem isn’t just the church.

It’s also the parents who willingly send their kids in to be interviewed fully trusting that the interview process isn’t harmful to their children.

Until parents start to push back, the church will continue to invade the privacy and lives of the members including the young children.
Those who do not move do not notice their chains. —Rosa Luxemburg

Kishkumen
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Re: Primary kid interviews?

Post by Kishkumen » Wed Jul 10, 2019 11:12 am

Why are these survey's so scretive?
I understand TSCC doesn't want every Joe Schmuck on the internet chiming in. However it seems reasonable this should be discussed by the membership body as a whole. What happened to the Law of Common Consent? It's been replaced by the Law of Statiscal Surveys.

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jfro18
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Re: Primary kid interviews?

Post by jfro18 » Wed Jul 10, 2019 11:50 am

Kishkumen wrote:
Wed Jul 10, 2019 11:12 am
Why are these survey's so scretive?
I understand TSCC doesn't want every Joe Schmuck on the internet chiming in. However it seems reasonable this should be discussed by the membership body as a whole. What happened to the Law of Common Consent? It's been replaced by the Law of Statiscal Surveys.
My background is marketing research so I can answer this in two ways:

1. They did not want this survey going out to the general population as it has. I think they continue to grossly underestimate that these things just can not be kept from the internet until they can be sure who they are sending to is 100% all-in... and they will never have that anymore.

2. When you do a survey like this you likely want to target a certain group of the population to get a good representation from each group. This way they aren't sending surveys to the entire church constantly. A guy messaged me yesterday they he just took a survey on "leisure travel" from the church which I would love to see... how the hell that relates to church I don't know.

I have a generic link to this survey that I was tempted last night to post so *everyone* could go in and put in their two cents, but as much as I hate this church as a marketing person I know that would completely destroy their survey and I don't want to be that person either.

Thoughtful
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Re: Primary kid interviews?

Post by Thoughtful » Wed Jul 10, 2019 1:39 pm

jfro18 wrote:
Wed Jul 10, 2019 11:50 am
Kishkumen wrote:
Wed Jul 10, 2019 11:12 am
Why are these survey's so scretive?
I understand TSCC doesn't want every Joe Schmuck on the internet chiming in. However it seems reasonable this should be discussed by the membership body as a whole. What happened to the Law of Common Consent? It's been replaced by the Law of Statiscal Surveys.
My background is marketing research so I can answer this in two ways:

1. They did not want this survey going out to the general population as it has. I think they continue to grossly underestimate that these things just can not be kept from the internet until they can be sure who they are sending to is 100% all-in... and they will never have that anymore.

2. When you do a survey like this you likely want to target a certain group of the population to get a good representation from each group. This way they aren't sending surveys to the entire church constantly. A guy messaged me yesterday they he just took a survey on "leisure travel" from the church which I would love to see... how the hell that relates to church I don't know.

I have a generic link to this survey that I was tempted last night to post so *everyone* could go in and put in their two cents, but as much as I hate this church as a marketing person I know that would completely destroy their survey and I don't want to be that person either.
Leisure travel= how can we get older adults to pay for missions to work unpaid instead of touristing.

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RubinHighlander
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Re: Primary kid interviews?

Post by RubinHighlander » Wed Jul 10, 2019 2:48 pm

Scientologist don't even have an age restriction on kid interviews/interrogations/auditing. Maybe TSCC is trying to catch up with them?
https://www.villagevoice.com/2012/07/12 ... l-website/

I totally see this as a way to try and inoculate at an earlier age to try and slow future bleeding. Where most leaders might lay low on masturbation Qs but Id guess they will probably play heavily on the Qs about respect and obedience to leadership. Grooming kids younger and younger is the name of the game and unfortunately it will open up so many situations at the local level for more abuse.
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Anon70
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Re: Primary kid interviews?

Post by Anon70 » Wed Jul 10, 2019 3:19 pm

jfro18 wrote:
Wed Jul 10, 2019 11:50 am
2. When you do a survey like this you likely want to target a certain group of the population to get a good representation from each group. This way they aren't sending surveys to the entire church constantly. A guy messaged me yesterday they he just took a survey on "leisure travel" from the church which I would love to see... how the hell that relates to church I don't know.
Leisure travel to church history sites?

I got one about two weeks ago asking about my current state in the church: callings, daily prayer, daily scripture study, temple attendance. Etc.

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oliblish
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Re: Primary kid interviews?

Post by oliblish » Wed Jul 10, 2019 3:53 pm

Here is an actual photo of youth interviews as they will be in 2035:

Image
Stands next to Kolob, called by the Egyptians Oliblish, which is the next grand governing creation near to the celestial or the place where God resides; holding the key of power also, pertaining to other planets; as revealed from God to Abraham

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StarbucksMom
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Re: Primary kid interviews?

Post by StarbucksMom » Wed Jul 10, 2019 3:55 pm

This is horrendous. If this doesn’t SCREAM cult, I honestly don’t know what the Hell does.

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