.

If you are new to the board or simply have something new in your life, come let us know in the Introductions forum.
Post Reply
ed123
Posts: 62
Joined: Wed Jul 10, 2019 7:36 am

.

Post by ed123 » Thu Jul 11, 2019 11:07 pm

.
Last edited by ed123 on Mon Jul 15, 2019 10:34 am, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
Red Ryder
Posts: 2375
Joined: Sun Oct 16, 2016 5:14 pm

Re: Trying to get a feel for this forum

Post by Red Ryder » Fri Jul 12, 2019 7:50 am

“ed123” wrote:Anyhow, my thought experiments will not care what you currently believe. They will only use your mind to come to a logical conclusion based on a certain assumption. It doesn't matter that you believe in that assumption. It only matters that you follow the experiment mentally to its conclusion, and see what the outcome is. This doesn't make it true. It only makes it the likely truth given the core assumption is true. If it isn't in the real world, it doesn't matter. It DOES matter to my research, even if it doesn't matter to you in your personal beliefs. Do you want apologetics to be more transparent and honest? Then I ask you to help. WTF, you say? I really am serious. I need help, and I am not shy to ask for it. And other apologists won't, so I turn to who I can. This employs your mind to use your thought processes without your beliefs or lack thereof getting in the way, so that you can help me think through my projects.
Let’s begin. What’s thought experiment #1?
Those who do not move do not notice their chains. —Rosa Luxemburg

ed123
Posts: 62
Joined: Wed Jul 10, 2019 7:36 am

.

Post by ed123 » Fri Jul 12, 2019 8:09 am

.
Last edited by ed123 on Mon Jul 15, 2019 10:35 am, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
Red Ryder
Posts: 2375
Joined: Sun Oct 16, 2016 5:14 pm

Re: Trying to get a feel for this forum

Post by Red Ryder » Fri Jul 12, 2019 9:13 am

While we wait in anticipation, what are your thoughts on the similarities between Joseph Smith, Warren Jeffs, and Denver Snuffer?
Those who do not move do not notice their chains. —Rosa Luxemburg

ed123
Posts: 62
Joined: Wed Jul 10, 2019 7:36 am

.

Post by ed123 » Fri Jul 12, 2019 9:40 am

.
Last edited by ed123 on Mon Jul 15, 2019 10:35 am, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
Corsair
Posts: 2656
Joined: Fri Oct 14, 2016 9:58 am
Location: Phoenix

Re: Trying to get a feel for this forum

Post by Corsair » Fri Jul 12, 2019 10:07 am

ed123 wrote:
Thu Jul 11, 2019 11:07 pm
Anyhow, my thought experiments will not care what you currently believe. They will only use your mind to come to a logical conclusion based on a certain assumption. It doesn't matter that you believe in that assumption. It only matters that you follow the experiment mentally to its conclusion, and see what the outcome is. This doesn't make it true. It only makes it the likely truth given the core assumption is true. If it isn't in the real world, it doesn't matter. It DOES matter to my research, even if it doesn't matter to you in your personal beliefs.
Your experiment sounds intriguing. I'm not optimistic about it, but I can happily follow your line of reasoning and see where it leads. It's unfortunate that there seems to be no way for competing testimonies from the Holy Spirit to resolve different conclusions.

Have you ever spoken with the guy who runs the Church is True website? He seems to have a similar mindset where he has a lot of problems with most apologetic answers and makes a sincere case for LDS beliefs based on other lines of reasoning. He actually came by this forum a few years ago and I had some email correspondence with him. I reviewed some of his early pages and pointed out where he might present a better case for his beliefs. He certainly has a much friendlier apologetic tone than many of the pages within FairMormon.

ed123
Posts: 62
Joined: Wed Jul 10, 2019 7:36 am

Re: Trying to get a feel for this forum

Post by ed123 » Fri Jul 12, 2019 10:20 am

.
Last edited by ed123 on Mon Jul 15, 2019 10:35 am, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
Hagoth
Posts: 3417
Joined: Fri Oct 14, 2016 1:13 pm

Re: Trying to get a feel for this forum

Post by Hagoth » Fri Jul 12, 2019 2:08 pm

ed123 wrote:
Fri Jul 12, 2019 9:40 am
Yes, I understand the implication of what I just said very well, and I am not looking necessarily for your acceptance of my Holy Ghost as the real one, nor do I expect necessarily that you believe anyone's Holy Ghost is real. Thank you.
This inevitably comes down to a "my Holy Ghost is bigger than your Holy Ghost" pissing contest, or, as members of many religions like to state it, your Holy Ghost is either the devil or self delusion. If you accept that there are many Holy Ghosts that are not real you might as well take it one tiny step further and consider that either all Holy Ghosts are real or all Holy Ghosts are imaginary. Either of those propositions makes for a much stronger argument, since there is no way of verifying that people of other religions who are obviously just as moved by their Holy Ghost (in fact often moreso than most iPad-viewing-nodding-off-bored-to-death-in-church Mormons) are either fooled or faking it.
“The easy confidence with which I know another man's religion is folly teaches me to suspect that my own is also.” -Mark Twain

Jesus: "The Kingdom of God is within you." The Buddha: "Be your own light."

ed123
Posts: 62
Joined: Wed Jul 10, 2019 7:36 am

Re: Trying to get a feel for this forum

Post by ed123 » Fri Jul 12, 2019 2:20 pm

.
Last edited by ed123 on Mon Jul 15, 2019 10:34 am, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
Random
Posts: 962
Joined: Sun Feb 19, 2017 8:44 pm

Re: Trying to get a feel for this forum

Post by Random » Fri Jul 12, 2019 5:11 pm

Red Ryder wrote:
Fri Jul 12, 2019 9:13 am
While we wait in anticipation, what are your thoughts on the similarities between Joseph Smith, Warren Jeffs, and Denver Snuffer?
I can tell you he is not a Denver Snuffer believer. And Warren Jeffs? I've only seen ed post on LDSFF. I don't know him in real life, but I'm sure he'd gag at the thought of thinking WJ was any sort of good man.
There are 2 Gods. One who created us. The other you created. The God you made up is just like you-thrives on flattery-makes you live in fear.

Believe in the God who created us. And the God you created should be abolished.
PK

User avatar
w2mz
Posts: 181
Joined: Tue Oct 18, 2016 3:38 pm

Re: Trying to get a feel for this forum

Post by w2mz » Sun Jul 14, 2019 3:16 pm

They will only use your mind to come to a logical conclusion based on a certain assumption.
If you have already predetermined your conclusion and assumptions, it’s not much of an experiment. It’s more like just following a checklist.

I think I see what you’re trying to accomplish, but to me it seems like the rocking horse winner. A ton of mental energy consumed, but no willingness or purpose to move an inch.

Good luck.
The church has engineered your eternal family into a commodity that can be purchased with an annual fee. The fact that full tithing payment is a requirement for saving ordinances is the biggest red flag imaginable. Hagoth

ed123
Posts: 62
Joined: Wed Jul 10, 2019 7:36 am

Re: Trying to get a feel for this forum

Post by ed123 » Sun Jul 14, 2019 6:28 pm

.
Last edited by ed123 on Mon Jul 15, 2019 10:34 am, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
w2mz
Posts: 181
Joined: Tue Oct 18, 2016 3:38 pm

Re: Trying to get a feel for this forum

Post by w2mz » Sun Jul 14, 2019 9:32 pm

Fair enough. You gotta do you. You can know/believe anything you want.

Still feels like a game of “Punch me in the stomach as hard as you can to see how tough I am” though.

When we’re done, let’s play the opposite game where you, as a true believer, pretend to know absolutely that Joseph WAS a fraud while we hone our “anti” skills by stacking up evidence, facts, and our feelings and you tell us how we can be even more convinced he made it up like other cult leaders from John Mathias to Jim Jones.

Actually, never mind. Both experiments are pointless to me.
The church has engineered your eternal family into a commodity that can be purchased with an annual fee. The fact that full tithing payment is a requirement for saving ordinances is the biggest red flag imaginable. Hagoth

ed123
Posts: 62
Joined: Wed Jul 10, 2019 7:36 am

Re: Trying to get a feel for this forum

Post by ed123 » Mon Jul 15, 2019 7:14 am

w2mz wrote:
Sun Jul 14, 2019 9:32 pm
Fair enough. You gotta do you. You can know/believe anything you want.

Still feels like a game of “Punch me in the stomach as hard as you can to see how tough I am” though.

When we’re done, let’s play the opposite game where you, as a true believer, pretend to know absolutely that Joseph WAS a fraud while we hone our “anti” skills by stacking up evidence, facts, and our feelings and you tell us how we can be even more convinced he made it up like other cult leaders from John Mathias to Jim Jones.

Actually, never mind. Both experiments are pointless to me.
You can be a jerk about it, or you can be a friendly person. Which will it be?

User avatar
Evil_Bert
Posts: 98
Joined: Tue Oct 25, 2016 7:40 am
Location: Northern Nevada

Re: Trying to get a feel for this forum

Post by Evil_Bert » Mon Jul 15, 2019 10:09 am

This whole thing feels like you are here to convince us that we are wrong and we should just trust you because you have it all figured out. I am with w2mz on this. Pointless.
Illegitimi non carborundum.

ed123
Posts: 62
Joined: Wed Jul 10, 2019 7:36 am

.

Post by ed123 » Mon Jul 15, 2019 10:33 am

Evil_Bert wrote:
Mon Jul 15, 2019 10:09 am
This whole thing feels like you are here to convince us that we are wrong and we should just trust you because you have it all figured out. I am with w2mz on this. Pointless.
Yes, indeed, because of the lack of willingness on all of your parts, it is indeed pointless, not because I wasn't serious about what I was doing here.

Post Reply

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 0 guests