NOM

Posted: **Thu Jul 18, 2019 7:02 am**

Looks pretty vague. In my experience members struggle without specific standards and tasks being defined. This could get interesting. I predict YM will still be playing basketball in the gym every Wednesday. Kids choosing their own goals instead of it being spelled out probably won't work too great. Leaders will have to come up with stuff on their own which could get very interesting in some areas.

https://www.ksl.com/article/46596615/he ... eaders-say

"Children and youth will largely be tasked with choosing their own goals instead of following an already-set list of requirements."

Posted: **Thu Jul 18, 2019 7:34 am**

hmm. A church app with a youth oriented journaling feature. There's some serious privacy abuse waiting to happen. I can see the Bishop reviewing journal entries prior to interviews, or for monitoring repentance assignments and other invasive things.

It just can't end well. There is no good reason for setting the app up that way.

Posted: **Thu Jul 18, 2019 8:19 am**

This just screams "fail." Let's push the responsibility to the kids so the leaders don't have to plan a program. Just make it more like church, that will keep the kids happy and in the good ship Zion. I can see this appealing to a small percentage of kids with the rest just blowing it off.

Posted: **Thu Jul 18, 2019 9:05 am**

FiveFingerMnemonic wrote: ↑Thu Jul 18, 2019 7:02 am "Children and youth will largely be tasked with choosing their own goals instead of following an already-set list of requirements."

That "already-set list of requirements" was the Scouting program. I have been in a Young Men presidency for years and there is no indication that this will be some revolutionary new program. YM leaders will still need to come up with some new Wednesday activity to attract teenage boys who are easily distracted by extracurricular school activities, employement, and girls. But now we don't have a nationally recognized scouting program as a framework.

This looks like Duty to God with Occasional Camping and the implementation will end up as the expected leader roulette. I serve with a bunch of very practical blue-collar tradesmen in the presidency and quorum advisors. I suggested to the YM president that they each take an evening and at least give some basics to the boys in their trade so they have the slightest amount of experience in something practical. They all realize that if mutual turns into "Sunday School 2.0" or "Weeknight Mission Prep" then attendance will decline far faster than the church growth rate.

Posted: **Thu Jul 18, 2019 9:15 am**

Judging from the difficulty they have had getting disinterested (not interested but they don't believe in not accepting a calling) scout leaders to follow the BSA outline, I see this leading to a lot of kids missing out on essential personal growth opportunities. I hope I'm wrong.

Posted: **Thu Jul 18, 2019 9:36 am**

I have already decided that my boys and girls will get supplemental instruction in cool outdoor things from me without a church program. I call it "Dad scouts". Basically we will go out and do things I already like to do. Skiing, mountain biking, camping, watersports, hunting, navigation, and maybe the occasional lesson in counter-insurgency and MOUT (military operations in urban terrain) from FM 7-8. [emoji1303][emoji6]

Posted: **Thu Jul 18, 2019 10:38 am**

They couldn't come up with a better name than "Children and Youth"?

Yawn. Sounds like more church to me. The young 'uns will love that. It will be yet another Church program no one really likes but no want is willing to talk about not liking.

Posted: **Thu Jul 18, 2019 11:03 am**

Seems rather bland to me. As usual it will work for the 20% who thrive on this stuff. Another 30% may go through the motions. The other 50% will ignore completely.

No matter what the church does they are in a losing battle for at least the near future. Very few kids ever wanted religion and it is even less so today. Any program that’s goal is to get kids to do something they dislike will be minimally successful at best.

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Posted: **Thu Jul 18, 2019 11:05 am**

1smartdodog wrote:Seems rather bland to me. As usual it will work for the 20% who thrive on this stuff. Another 30% may go through the motions. The other 50% will ignore completely.

No matter what the church does they are in a losing battle for at least the near future. Very few kids ever wanted religion and it is even less so today. Any program that’s goal is to get kids to do something they dislike will be minimally successful at best.

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Posted: **Thu Jul 18, 2019 12:07 pm**

FiveFingerMnemonic wrote: ↑Thu Jul 18, 2019 9:36 am I have already decided that my boys and girls will get supplemental instruction in cool outdoor things from me without a church program. I call it "Dad scouts". Basically we will go out and do things I already like to do. Skiing, mountain biking, camping, watersports, hunting, navigation, and maybe the occasional lesson in counter-insurgency and MOUT (military operations in urban terrain) from FM 7-8. [emoji1303][emoji6]

Excellent! I guess they are too young for the rifle range just yet?

It is puzzling to me that the COB would shift the goal setting on the youth and not have detailed in a little book to check the boxes off. I mean, this was their chance to finalize the decoupling from scouts and really put into practice the inoculation apologetic material. Let's be honest, most kids are just not that motivated about any church or scout stuff; maybe like 5% of them are go getter koolaid drinkers. Does it feel like they are further watering things down at the local level, with the 2 hr church and the honk-n-wave ministering? Maybe they are making these changes based on their survey feedback? Maybe they want to spend less on material development and printing cost so they can buy more pharma stocks?

Posted: **Fri Jul 19, 2019 8:00 am**

The principles taught in this effort for children and youth represent a higher, holier way to encourage the rising generation to follow Jesus Christ and apply His gospel in all areas of their lives,

Its just weeknight church.

strengthen the rising generation’s faith in Jesus Christ and help children, youth and their families progress along the covenant path as they meet life’s challenges.

I'm really growing to hate the phrase "covenant path."

Posted: **Fri Jul 19, 2019 8:05 am**

græy wrote: ↑Fri Jul 19, 2019 8:00 am
The principles taught in this effort for children and youth represent a higher, holier way to encourage the rising generation to follow Jesus Christ and apply His gospel in all areas of their lives,
Its just weeknight church.

Well, they gotta make up for the hour of lost church time each week somehow...

Posted: **Fri Jul 19, 2019 8:29 am**

I know its a crazy thought. But non of the material released so far says anything about weekly meetings. It does talk about planning activities to support the youth and help them gain experience. But there nothing specifying how frequently these activities have to occur.

What are the odds that this program results in less overall all time spent at/within/around the church itself?

Posted: **Fri Jul 19, 2019 8:52 am**

græy wrote:
The principles taught in this effort for children and youth represent a higher, holier way to encourage the rising generation to follow Jesus Christ and apply His gospel in all areas of their lives,
Its just weeknight church.

strengthen the rising generation’s faith in Jesus Christ and help children, youth and their families progress along the covenant path as they meet life’s challenges.
I'm really growing to hate the phrase "covenant path."

The path! [emoji16]

Posted: **Fri Jul 19, 2019 8:54 am**

græy wrote:I know its a crazy thought. But non of the material released so far says anything about weekly meetings. It does talk about planning activities to support the youth and help them gain experience. But there nothing specifying how frequently these activities have to occur.

What are the odds that this program results in less overall all time spent at/within/around the church itself?

Hmmm, just like 2 hour church and ministering. Interesting observation.

Posted: **Fri Jul 19, 2019 10:27 am**

The principles taught in this effort for children and youth represent a higher, holier THAN THOU way to encourage the rising generation to follow Jesus Christ and apply His COB's gospel in all areas of their lives,

Posted: **Fri Jul 19, 2019 11:57 am**

This sounds like the best kind of scouting ever!

FiveFingerMnemonic wrote: ↑Thu Jul 18, 2019 9:36 am I have already decided that my boys and girls will get supplemental instruction in cool outdoor things from me without a church program. I call it "Dad scouts". Basically we will go out and do things I already like to do. Skiing, mountain biking, camping, watersports, hunting, navigation, and maybe the occasional lesson in counter-insurgency and MOUT (military operations in urban terrain) from FM 7-8. [emoji1303][emoji6]

Posted: **Fri Jul 19, 2019 10:09 pm**

Having spent the last few years in the YM program, I’m exhausted. Having to plan and execute an activity every week is tiring. I vote for monthly 2 hour church and monthly youth programs.

Posted: **Sat Jul 20, 2019 12:53 pm**

All the wards I have been unwillingly associated with since my break have tried to hook me with helping in the YM program. Who wouldn't want to do cool stuff and help out the boys? I said "this guy doesn't." After a few splutters they have left me alone.

Posted: **Mon Jul 22, 2019 1:38 pm**

Me: Are you going to Children and Youth tonight?
15 year old son: what the hell is that?
Me: the new name of the young men program
15 year old son: that is so stupid. No I’m not going.
Me: they may have cupcakes.
15 year old son: get out of my room

NOM

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