NOM

Tomorrrow, Pres. Nelson is to speak at the NAACP conference. What are the odds of him apologizing to the NAACP for the church’s racist past?

I saw this posted by John Dehlin on Facebook and then I saw someone linked an article I believe from Jana Reiss talking about it.

Personally I can't see him apologizing because it opens up so many problems -- if he apologizes and claims it was just men making a bad choice, it throws every prophet from Brigham to SWK under the bus. You could take it a step further and say he's throwing God under the bus since it was considered doctrine, but I know apologists would never concede that.

On the other hand, Nelson is a legacy oriented guy and seems willing to do what he needs to do in order to cement his own legacy... so maybe he does.

But the bigger question to me is - does it matter? If he apologizes, the problems that led to it are still there. If he apologizes, it just further shows this is a man made real estate company parading around as a religion.

I guess it just doesn't matter... this is all theater for the members to feel like things are happening when it fact nothing really is changing.

I think the Church made a hefty donation to the NAACP last year when they had representatives from that group to the celebration of the 40th anniversary of ending the Church's racial purity policy.

If there was no apology forthcoming last year, there will be none this year, especially at an event for some other organization. As President Oaks would put it, "Being infallible means never having to say you're sorry".

Did I miss Dallin F. Oaks changing the doctrine of no apologies?

No?

Yeah, Russell F. isn't going to apologize. Now way in heck!

jfro18 wrote: ↑Sat Jul 20, 2019 8:55 pm But the bigger question to me is - does it matter? If he apologizes, the problems that led to it are still there. If he apologizes, it just further shows this is a man made real estate company parading around as a religion.

I guess it just doesn't matter... this is all theater for the members to feel like things are happening when it fact nothing really is changing.

In other words, the church is not what it claims to be regardless of the actions of its leaders. I can't imagine RMN apologizing. He will just ignore the issues.

Apparently the answer is... no.

I know, I know - we're all shocked.

jfro18 wrote: ↑Sun Jul 21, 2019 7:12 pm Apparently the answer is... no.

I know, I know - we're all shocked.

Let’s not forget who this is for - it’s a PR stunt for the members, it isn’t designed to reach out to the black community in any meaningful way, and certainly not designed to redress past wrongs. It mostly just helps existing members say “see, the Church was never racist. isn’t President Nelson amazing?”

Didn’t happen. Maybe he thinks that everyone has forgotten about the Mormon racist past.

I keep glancing at the title of this thread and think it's a thread about Willie Nelson for an instant before I realize it's really about some other dude with the last name of Nelson, and I am disappoint.

What does Willie Nelson have to do with MORmONism?

You don't know? Me either.

Imagine the confrontation between Brigham and Russell.

wtfluff wrote: ↑Mon Jul 22, 2019 4:54 pm I keep glancing at the title of this thread and think it's a thread about Willie Nelson for an instant before I realize it's really about some other dude with the last name of Nelson, and I am disappoint.

What does Willie Nelson have to do with MORmONism?

You don't know? Me either.

I'm laughing because I've been doing the exact same thing: what did Willie Nelson say to upset the NAACP and why are they discussing it in doctrinal discussions? Every time I log in, and then the deflation when I realize it's referring to THAT Nelson.

wtfluff wrote: ↑Mon Jul 22, 2019 4:54 pm I keep glancing at the title of this thread and think it's a thread about Willie Nelson for an instant before I realize it's really about some other dude with the last name of Nelson, and I am disappoint.

What does Willie Nelson have to do with MORmONism?

You don't know? Me either.

Haha I read this thread thinking it was about him too.

Nelson did not apologize, but the guy (Brown) and introduced him implyed he did, maybe in private?
From the SLTrib reporting on the event:

Nelson did not apologize for the church’s previous racial policy, but Brown seemed to suggest the faith already had.

The Latter-day Saints “had the courage to say, ‘We have unfortunately been complicit in the evil of racism in this nation,’” Brown said. “‘But unlike some persons in this country, we are humble enough to say we are sorry, we are going to change our ways, we are going to do a new thing, sing a new song, talk a new talk, walk a new walk.’”

As the Duke used to say, "Never apologize... it's a sign of weakness."

The problem with these guys is they were raised on too many John Wayne movies and didn't read their scriptures and liken them to themselves. Church doctrine, scripture and policy is always intended for someone else.

As the Duke used to say, "Never say you're sorry, it's a sign of weakness..."

I suspect that Vlad the Impaler, Ghengis Khan, Joseph Goebbels, and Joseph Stalin all said the same thing.

wtfluff wrote: ↑Mon Jul 22, 2019 4:54 pm I keep glancing at the title of this thread and think it's a thread about Willie Nelson for an instant before I realize it's really about some other dude with the last name of Nelson, and I am disappoint.

What does Willie Nelson have to do with MORmONism?

You don't know? Me either.

Well he does own a nice ranch in central UT.

Thoughtful wrote: ↑Wed Jul 24, 2019 10:48 pm

wtfluff wrote: ↑Mon Jul 22, 2019 4:54 pm I keep glancing at the title of this thread and think it's a thread about Willie Nelson for an instant before I realize it's really about some other dude with the last name of Nelson, and I am disappoint.

What does Willie Nelson have to do with MORmONism?

You don't know? Me either.

Well he does own a nice ranch in central UT.

I heard he sold that long ago. The "WN" gate was still standing last time I drove through, but according to this story, Willie no longer has a Utah connection:

Is that really Willie Nelson’s ranch?

A New Name wrote: ↑Tue Jul 23, 2019 3:48 pm Nelson did not apologize, but the guy (Brown) and introduced him implyed he did, maybe in private?
From the SLTrib reporting on the event:

Nelson did not apologize for the church’s previous racial policy, but Brown seemed to suggest the faith already had.

The Latter-day Saints “had the courage to say, ‘We have unfortunately been complicit in the evil of racism in this nation,’” Brown said. “‘But unlike some persons in this country, we are humble enough to say we are sorry, we are going to change our ways, we are going to do a new thing, sing a new song, talk a new talk, walk a new walk.’”

Maybe someone was taken in by the fake apology hoax that was released by Jonathan Streeter last year...

oliblish wrote: ↑Fri Jul 26, 2019 10:03 am

A New Name wrote: ↑Tue Jul 23, 2019 3:48 pm Nelson did not apologize, but the guy (Brown) and introduced him implyed he did, maybe in private?
From the SLTrib reporting on the event:

Nelson did not apologize for the church’s previous racial policy, but Brown seemed to suggest the faith already had.

The Latter-day Saints “had the courage to say, ‘We have unfortunately been complicit in the evil of racism in this nation,’” Brown said. “‘But unlike some persons in this country, we are humble enough to say we are sorry, we are going to change our ways, we are going to do a new thing, sing a new song, talk a new talk, walk a new walk.’”

Maybe someone was taken in by the fake apology hoax that was released by Jonathan Streeter last year...

Not sure where Brown got that idea, the Church has never come even remotely close to saying "We have unfortunately been complicit in the evil of racism in this nation", and has never been "humble enough to say we are sorry" about anything.