Finally joined after lurking 6 years

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stuck
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Joined: Mon Aug 12, 2019 2:48 pm

Finally joined after lurking 6 years

Post by stuck » Wed Aug 14, 2019 12:52 pm

For several of us going through a faith crisis is a slow process with our family and friends. It seems that way to me anyhow. I was listening to NPR about 6 years ago and they mentioned something about the Blacks and the priesthood essay that the church put out and after reading it I was like what?! That still is a very good proof for me that the church is false. If our skin color doesn't really matter like the essay states, then that would make the Book of Mormon, Book of Abraham and Brigham Young false right? After that I went down the "rabbit hole" and haven't really come out fully although now that I am quite convinced that the church is no longer true I don't feel the need to do a lot more serious research to prove it to myself. Now if my wife would follow suit that would be great. The bad thing for both of us is that both of our families are full of tbms especially our parents. She is especially close to her parents which probably makes the thought of disbelieving difficult. Both her parents and mine know that I no longer believe. Most of my siblings don't know? I also attend a ward in Utah county where I go to support my wife and son. Most of those in the ward are tbm that I can gather. However, there are a few like me that since my faith crisis I decided not to wear a white shirt to church anymore. So there are a few others in colored shirts. But the discussions in elder's quorum is still quite tbm. It would be nice if it wasn't. I have thought that it might be good if I rocked the boat a bit to get people thinking but then would I be in danger of church discipline? Maybe that would be a good thing, I don't know. Has anyone else tried "rocking the boat" and if so how did that go? It's great to join you all finally.

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Angel
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Joined: Thu May 31, 2018 8:26 am

Re: Finally joined after lurking 6 years

Post by Angel » Wed Aug 14, 2019 1:31 pm

stuck wrote:
Wed Aug 14, 2019 12:52 pm
For several of us going through a faith crisis is a slow process with our family and friends. It seems that way to me anyhow. I was listening to NPR about 6 years ago and they mentioned something about the Blacks and the priesthood essay that the church put out and after reading it I was like what?! That still is a very good proof for me that the church is false. If our skin color doesn't really matter like the essay states, then that would make the Book of Mormon, Book of Abraham and Brigham Young false right? After that I went down the "rabbit hole" and haven't really come out fully although now that I am quite convinced that the church is no longer true I don't feel the need to do a lot more serious research to prove it to myself. Now if my wife would follow suit that would be great. The bad thing for both of us is that both of our families are full of tbms especially our parents. She is especially close to her parents which probably makes the thought of disbelieving difficult. Both her parents and mine know that I no longer believe. Most of my siblings don't know? I also attend a ward in Utah county where I go to support my wife and son. Most of those in the ward are tbm that I can gather. However, there are a few like me that since my faith crisis I decided not to wear a white shirt to church anymore. So there are a few others in colored shirts. But the discussions in elder's quorum is still quite tbm. It would be nice if it wasn't. I have thought that it might be good if I rocked the boat a bit to get people thinking but then would I be in danger of church discipline? Maybe that would be a good thing, I don't know. Has anyone else tried "rocking the boat" and if so how did that go? It's great to join you all finally.
Hello stuck, and welcome to NOM! I like the name - quite a lot of us feel stuck. I'm also in a mixed-faith marriage, although in my case - my husband (and kids) are in, while I am out. I also go to support them. I wish women had something like "wear a different colored shirt" to signal who-is-who to one another. Church is always so much more bearable when you have like-minded company.

I've been tempted, and have on occasion, rocked the boat. Just remember, honey gathers more bees than lemon juice does - if you do decide to start making lessons more interesting, take it gently and slowly would be my suggestion. :D

Welcome again!!
When it is dark enough, you can see the stars. ~ Ralph Waldo Emerson

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Linked
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Re: Finally joined after lurking 6 years

Post by Linked » Wed Aug 14, 2019 1:40 pm

Welcome to NOM stuck! Based on your post you will fit in well here. The mixed-faith family can be a patience-trying road, but for some it is better than the alternative. I'm also about 6 years into my faith transition, with a TBM wife. We teach primary so I have managed to avoid Elder's quorum for years; I don't think I can go back.

I don't rock the boat much, DW is very sensitive to the idea of our family being ostracized so I stay undercover for the most part. But occasionally I'll push back against the more frustrating orthodox ideas in a way that is difficult to disagree with. Usually I'll get some thoughtful nods and then the discussion goes back to the frustrating orthodox ideas.
"I would write about life. Every person would be exactly as important as any other. All facts would also be given equal weightiness. Nothing would be left out. Let others bring order to chaos. I would bring chaos to order" - Kurt Vonnegut

stuck
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Joined: Mon Aug 12, 2019 2:48 pm

Re: Finally joined after lurking 6 years

Post by stuck » Thu Aug 15, 2019 8:03 pm

Thanks Linked and Angel for your replies. Linked what will happen when you get released from primary? I would like to not attend priesthood but I guess I will have to work towards that in "baby steps"

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wtfluff
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Location: Worshiping Gravity / Pulling Taffy

Re: Finally joined after lurking 6 years

Post by wtfluff » Thu Aug 15, 2019 8:57 pm

Image
(Stuck)

Pull up a (folding) chair and stay a while.

This board was my salvation when I "found the light-switch" and figured out the truth about the church.

I've taken the "go slow" mantra to the extreme, and I think I've done literally EVERYTHING wrong with this enlightenment journey, but there a lot of other really enlightened people around here who have REALLY good insights and advice as to how to navigate this slog.
Faith does not give you the answers, it just stops you asking the questions. -Frater Ravus

Keep the company of those who seek the truth - run from those who have found it -Václav Havel

Brilliant.

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moksha
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Joined: Tue Oct 18, 2016 4:22 am

Re: Finally joined after lurking 6 years

Post by moksha » Fri Aug 16, 2019 4:31 am

Welcome, Stuck.
Good faith does not require evidence, but it also does not turn a blind eye to that evidence. Otherwise, it becomes misplaced faith.
-- Moksha

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Linked
Posts: 934
Joined: Mon Oct 17, 2016 4:04 pm

Re: Finally joined after lurking 6 years

Post by Linked » Fri Aug 16, 2019 12:55 pm

stuck wrote:
Thu Aug 15, 2019 8:03 pm
Thanks Linked and Angel for your replies. Linked what will happen when you get released from primary? I would like to not attend priesthood but I guess I will have to work towards that in "baby steps"
That's a good question. I will just go home during the second hour when it is priesthood week. I've had a soft rule for the past couple years that if I am with family I will stay at church, if not I go home. I teach my son's primary class with DW, so I stay for that. This year we actually have a second set of teachers so I am free during the second hour for one week of Sunday School and one week of Priesthood per month and I go to SS with DW, and go home for Priesthood. We have even started giving our older son the choice to stay at church or come home with me when I leave.

I've been doing the really really slow fade. I made my desires known to my wife when she found out I didn't believe anymore, and I have slowly been moving towards them (no garments, less/no church, no tithing, etc). Being bluntly honest after moving so far from my former beliefs hurt our relationship a lot, but at this point none of what I have done is surprising to her, and she cries less, so that's good.
"I would write about life. Every person would be exactly as important as any other. All facts would also be given equal weightiness. Nothing would be left out. Let others bring order to chaos. I would bring chaos to order" - Kurt Vonnegut

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Corsair
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Location: Phoenix

Re: Finally joined after lurking 6 years

Post by Corsair » Fri Aug 16, 2019 3:32 pm

stuck wrote:
Wed Aug 14, 2019 12:52 pm
Has anyone else tried "rocking the boat" and if so how did that go?
I have been subtly (and not so subtly) rocking the boat for years. A few of the better highlights include a Thanksgiving some time ago. As food was being served I said it was "delicious to the taste and very desirable." This prompted all of the endowed adults to go wide eyed and turn towards me, but no one would comment, because it would clue a dozen children to the fact that I just quoted Satan in the temple.

My mother-in-law gravely asked her assembled adult posterity if they had read the "Saints" book. She had apparently just discovered the extent of Joseph's plural marriage activity. I told her that I had read "Saints", but I preferred "Rough Stone Rolling" as a better book of history. She had never heard of Bushman's award winning book and asked me if if was anti-Mormon literature. Other adults in the room quickly came to my defense noting that the author is an active temple worker and noted historian.

During Sunday School last year the lesson came around to Numbers chapter 22 with Balaam and the talking donkey. The teacher went over the highlights and (against my better judgement) asked the class, "Do we really believe this actually historically happened? Seriously?" Another man in the class piped up and noted that this might just be a fictional story that some biblical writer stuck in the Old Testament.

In my experience, it's not so much seeking out times to rock the boat. It is seeking out times to be authentic and give other people a chance to gain a small bit of knowledge and perspective. It's a difference in tone and intent. I could just walk into Junior Primary and loudly state, "Santa is not real! It's just your parents!" Or, I could calmly ask the kids, "How do you think all those presents get under the tree each Christmas?" Then, let them talk. I want to put out enough ideas so that others rock their own boat, so to speak.
stuck wrote:
Wed Aug 14, 2019 12:52 pm
It's great to join you all finally.
We are all glad you found your way here!

stuck
Posts: 9
Joined: Mon Aug 12, 2019 2:48 pm

Re: Finally joined after lurking 6 years

Post by stuck » Sat Aug 17, 2019 8:30 am

Thanks for the welcome everyone! Yes I think I'd like to follow your example Linked. Corsair those are some great examples.

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Hagoth
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Re: Finally joined after lurking 6 years

Post by Hagoth » Sun Aug 18, 2019 7:52 am

Nice to have you in NOM, stuck!

As far as I'm concerned you do what is necessary for your marriage, which includes both honesty with your spouse and enduring some discomfort to support them as they learn to support you. Your support helps set an example of how you want to be treated. Anyone else just has to suck it up and deal with it. In my case I have found the single most important thing is making it clear that I'm not judging my wife for still believing. My whole thing is about the importance of honestly pursuing your own spirituality, regardless of where that leads you.

My favorite new quote is the one from Pres. Nelson that Random recently posted:

"While searching for the truth, we must be free to change our mind—even to change our religion—in response to new information and inspiration… One’s religion is not imposed by others. It is not predetermined. It is a very personal and sacred choice, nestled at the very core of human dignity.”

Rocking the boat in Sunday school and Priesthood Mtg is probably most useful as a way to signal to others like yourself but otherwise it doesn't seem to produce good results in an echo chamber. I don't go to Priesthood meeting at all and seldom to Sunday School, but when I do I bite my tongue if I think I'm in danger of putting my wife on the spot.
“The easy confidence with which I know another man's religion is folly teaches me to suspect that my own is also.” -Mark Twain

Jesus: "The Kingdom of God is within you." The Buddha: "Be your own light."

stuck
Posts: 9
Joined: Mon Aug 12, 2019 2:48 pm

Re: Finally joined after lurking 6 years

Post by stuck » Mon Aug 19, 2019 10:08 am

Thanks for that wise response Hagoth!

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græy
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Location: Central TX

Re: Finally joined after lurking 6 years

Post by græy » Mon Aug 19, 2019 3:10 pm

I've missed this thread until today. Welcome stuck! It's always good to have more understanding friends, and it sounds like you're definitely one of us! :)

For the most part we're all "stuck" in very similar positions, just trying to lend a listening here or helpful comment as the need and opportunity arises. Keep us posted!
I'm better than dirt... well most dirt. Not that fancy store bought stuff, I can't compete with that... full of nutrients and everything. -Moe Sizlack

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