Green tea is officially bad for you, against WoW

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Unendowed
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Green tea is officially bad for you, against WoW

Post by Unendowed » Wed Aug 14, 2019 6:14 pm

Thus saith the Lard, foo foo coffess and all teas, including green tea is against the WoW. As well as a bunch of other stuff we already knew was against. Copious amounts of soda is still ok, thank God!

https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/stu ... eng#title1

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jfro18
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Re: Green tea is officially bad for you, against WoW

Post by jfro18 » Wed Aug 14, 2019 6:20 pm

Wtf...
The Church Formally Known As Mormon wrote:Green tea and black tea are both made from the leaves of the exact same tea plant. The only difference is that the leaves in black tea are fermented and in green tea they’re not. They’re both tea and against the Word of Wisdom. Some drinks have tea in them but don’t advertise that fact, so always check the ingredients. Also, iced tea is still tea.
Where is tea mentioned in the Word of Wisdom? Am I missing something because I've never seen it... it was lumped in with hot drinks.

And why say "iced tea is still tea" but not mention it for coffee?

We are allowed to drink caffeine by the boatloads with coke... so why not iced coffee and tea?

The Word of Wisdom is the dumbest part of Mormonism because it constantly contradicts itself and forgets the one thing that would've saved lives and was unknown at the time: BOIL YOUR WATER.

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1smartdodog
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Re: Green tea is officially bad for you, against WoW

Post by 1smartdodog » Wed Aug 14, 2019 6:24 pm

The rules against coffee and tea will be gone within 10 years. They just won’t hold up to modern thinking and science.


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2bizE
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Re: Green tea is officially bad for you, against WoW

Post by 2bizE » Wed Aug 14, 2019 8:51 pm

The WoW is a law of health. Can someone explain to me what is unhealthy in tea that would exclude it from drinking?
~2bizE

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Ho Lee Turtle
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Re: Green tea is officially bad for you, against WoW

Post by Ho Lee Turtle » Wed Aug 14, 2019 9:09 pm

I sure wish they would have clarified which mild barley drinks are good for us; I wouldn’t want any youth thinking that a mild barley drink (aka 3.2 beer) is actually listed as being approved there in verse 17.

Guess it’s best to just keep the youth drinking all those Red Bull’s, Rockstars, and Monsters...

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moksha
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Re: Green tea is officially bad for you, against WoW

Post by moksha » Wed Aug 14, 2019 10:04 pm

When questioned on why tea and coffee are on this list, LDS apologists will say it is a test of obedience. I would suggest instead that it is a test of uncritical thinking and conforming to dubious rules.
Good faith does not require evidence, but it also does not turn a blind eye to that evidence. Otherwise, it becomes misplaced faith.
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felixfabulous
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Re: Green tea is officially bad for you, against WoW

Post by felixfabulous » Thu Aug 15, 2019 8:59 am

I think this will actually create some cognitive dissonance for a lot of millenials and younger members. I wonder how many will try to reconcile their lived experience "wait, this is supposed to be a health code and I know that tea and coffee are actually pretty good for you" with the continued allowance of soda and energy drinks with the knowledge that those are unhealthy. Also, I think it will strike a lot of people as overly prescriptive and totally against the spirit of D&C 89. But, I may be projecting my own thoughts to how people will react. Maybe people will just see it as revelation and another test of obedience.

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Not Buying It
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Re: Green tea is officially bad for you, against WoW

Post by Not Buying It » Thu Aug 15, 2019 9:44 am

Gotta love the way the Word of Wisdom forbids all kinds of things that aren't actually mentioned in the Word of Wisdom (green tea, marijuana, etc.). Hell, I almost think most members have never actually read section 89 and have no idea what it really says. For something not given 'by commandment or constraint", that sure seems to be the way it has been used for the last 150 years. The language of that section puts eating meat unsparingly and in seasons other than winter on par with the use of strong drinks, tobacco, and hot drinks. But when was the last time someone was denied a temple recommend for eating a Baconator? The Word of Wisdom is an inconsistent mess.
"The truth is elegantly simple. The lie needs complex apologia. 4 simple words: Joe made it up. It answers everything with the perfect simplicity of Occam's Razor. Every convoluted excuse withers." - Some guy on Reddit called disposazelph

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Not Buying It
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Re: Green tea is officially bad for you, against WoW

Post by Not Buying It » Thu Aug 15, 2019 9:45 am

moksha wrote:
Wed Aug 14, 2019 10:04 pm
When questioned on why tea and coffee are on this list, LDS apologists will say it is a test of obedience. I would suggest instead that it is a test of uncritical thinking and conforming to dubious rules.
Well said! I second that!
"The truth is elegantly simple. The lie needs complex apologia. 4 simple words: Joe made it up. It answers everything with the perfect simplicity of Occam's Razor. Every convoluted excuse withers." - Some guy on Reddit called disposazelph

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wtfluff
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Re: Green tea is officially bad for you, against WoW

Post by wtfluff » Thu Aug 15, 2019 9:46 am

moksha wrote:
Wed Aug 14, 2019 10:04 pm
When questioned on why tea and coffee are on this list, LDS apologists will say it is a test of obedience. I would suggest instead that it is a test of uncritical thinking and conforming to dubious rules.
Mormonism: Abortion of rational thought.










(Yes, I plagiarized that from the inter-webs...)
Faith does not give you the answers, it just stops you asking the questions. -Frater Ravus

Keep the company of those who seek the truth - run from those who have found it -Václav Havel

Brilliant.

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Re: Green tea is officially bad for you, against WoW

Post by Corsair » Thu Aug 15, 2019 9:50 am

felixfabulous wrote:
Thu Aug 15, 2019 8:59 am
I think this will actually create some cognitive dissonance for a lot of millenials and younger members.
I think this will actually create some cognitive dissonance for a lot of potential investigators in Asia, Africa, and a lot of other places the LDS church would actually like to expand.

Like nearly all modern commandments specific to the LDS church, this article assiduously avoids talking about how the implementation of the Word of Wisdom came about and how major parts were ignored by most segments of the church before 1920. Here is a document that this article avoids mentioning: Mormon Pioneer Bill of Particulars, 1845, National Park Service. Tea and coffee are clearly listed as supplies for LDS pioneers leaving Nauvoo in 1845.

The debates among apostles about implementation are also not included:

The Word Of Wisdom: From Principle To Requirement - Thomas G. Alexander

Lorenzo Snow wanted to go full vegetarian at one point. Coffee was finally forbidden by Heber Grant after most of the country turned against alcohol with the formal prohibition of alcohol in 1919 with the 18th Amendment to the U.S. constitution. Coffee was added as an obdience requirement for the men to keep up the "no hot drinks" requirement and they added tea so that the women would have a similar point of obedience.

It's all very silly. Like the BYU Honor Code, it's also largely not up for discussion or debate. At no time will honest questions be placed in front of any apostle or prophet where they have to defend the implementation or history of the Word of Wisdom. I'll just stick to drinking coffee when believers are not around to make it an issue.

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jfro18
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Re: Green tea is officially bad for you, against WoW

Post by jfro18 » Thu Aug 15, 2019 12:02 pm

The church recently released one of those "now you know" videos on the WoW... I spent I think around 45 minutes doing a write-up of it and if anyone cares to read it, the post is @ https://www.ldsdiscussions.com/blog-wow-video

I learned a lot in those 45 minutes of looking things up - not just in how the WoW was not even implemented during the first few generations of Mormons, but how stupid the text it and how completely arbitrary the implementation has become.

It really is the dumbest of Mormon commandments because it's not a commandment and it makes absolutely no sense nor does it have any consistency.

You can tell that it was a product of Joseph's day and that he was give absolutely no prophetic foresight or knowledge... it's a complete disaster of a revelation.

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Linked
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Re: Green tea is officially bad for you, against WoW

Post by Linked » Thu Aug 15, 2019 1:18 pm

My mission was in Japan, and tea is a big part of the culture, especially green tea. All the members I knew were very aware which teas were kosher and which weren't. The rules they followed are basically verbatim in the linked article. No green tea, no black tea, no milk tea. But wheat tea was ok.

I was very surprised when green tea got popular here in the MorCor. But fortunately we have this article to keep us straight. Keep SLC weird.
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Hagoth
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Re: Green tea is officially bad for you, against WoW

Post by Hagoth » Thu Aug 15, 2019 1:22 pm

moksha wrote:
Wed Aug 14, 2019 10:04 pm
When questioned on why tea and coffee are on this list, LDS apologists will say it is a test of obedience. I would suggest instead that it is a test of uncritical thinking and conforming to dubious rules.
If you really want to test the obedience of Mormons add ice cream to the list.
“The easy confidence with which I know another man's religion is folly teaches me to suspect that my own is also.” -Mark Twain

Jesus: "The Kingdom of God is within you." The Buddha: "Be your own light."

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Hagoth
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Re: Green tea is officially bad for you, against WoW

Post by Hagoth » Thu Aug 15, 2019 1:27 pm

They also never mention that neither Joseph nor Brigham obeyed the Word of Wisdom.
“The easy confidence with which I know another man's religion is folly teaches me to suspect that my own is also.” -Mark Twain

Jesus: "The Kingdom of God is within you." The Buddha: "Be your own light."

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foolmeonce
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Re: Green tea is officially bad for you, against WoW

Post by foolmeonce » Thu Aug 15, 2019 1:39 pm

jfro18 wrote:
Wed Aug 14, 2019 6:20 pm
Wtf...
The Church Formally Known As Mormon wrote:Green tea and black tea are both made from the leaves of the exact same tea plant. The only difference is that the leaves in black tea are fermented and in green tea they’re not. They’re both tea and against the Word of Wisdom. Some drinks have tea in them but don’t advertise that fact, so always check the ingredients. Also, iced tea is still tea.
Where is tea mentioned in the Word of Wisdom? Am I missing something because I've never seen it... it was lumped in with hot drinks.

And why say "iced tea is still tea" but not mention it for coffee?

We are allowed to drink caffeine by the boatloads with coke... so why not iced coffee and tea?

The Word of Wisdom is the dumbest part of Mormonism because it constantly contradicts itself and forgets the one thing that would've saved lives and was unknown at the time: BOIL YOUR WATER.
I think it's interesting that they use the word "fermentation" without any additional explanation or clarification. While that's the technical name of the leaf drying process, it's not at all the same as say beer fermentation, a conclusion I might jump to if I were say, looking for a reason to be opposed to drinking harmless leaf juice. "Oooh, see fermentation is bad, like beer! (Bread's ok becuase the heat kills the alcohol)."

For those interested, here's an interesting article on tea from folks who know about it. And as we all know, you wouldn't ask Ford for the details on a Chevy car, you'd go straight to the source and ignore everything else!

https://www.pureleaf.com/us/green-vs-bl ... difference
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Morpheus: No, Neo. I'm trying to tell you that when you're ready, you won't have to.

Thoughtful
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Re: Green tea is officially bad for you, against WoW

Post by Thoughtful » Thu Aug 15, 2019 7:51 pm

foolmeonce wrote:
Thu Aug 15, 2019 1:39 pm
jfro18 wrote:
Wed Aug 14, 2019 6:20 pm
Wtf...
The Church Formally Known As Mormon wrote:Green tea and black tea are both made from the leaves of the exact same tea plant. The only difference is that the leaves in black tea are fermented and in green tea they’re not. They’re both tea and against the Word of Wisdom. Some drinks have tea in them but don’t advertise that fact, so always check the ingredients. Also, iced tea is still tea.
Where is tea mentioned in the Word of Wisdom? Am I missing something because I've never seen it... it was lumped in with hot drinks.

And why say "iced tea is still tea" but not mention it for coffee?

We are allowed to drink caffeine by the boatloads with coke... so why not iced coffee and tea?

The Word of Wisdom is the dumbest part of Mormonism because it constantly contradicts itself and forgets the one thing that would've saved lives and was unknown at the time: BOIL YOUR WATER.
I think it's interesting that they use the word "fermentation" without any additional explanation or clarification. While that's the technical name of the leaf drying process, it's not at all the same as say beer fermentation, a conclusion I might jump to if I were say, looking for a reason to be opposed to drinking harmless leaf juice. "Oooh, see fermentation is bad, like beer! (Bread's ok becuase the heat kills the alcohol)."

For those interested, here's an interesting article on tea from folks who know about it. And as we all know, you wouldn't ask Ford for the details on a Chevy car, you'd go straight to the source and ignore everything else!

https://www.pureleaf.com/us/green-vs-bl ... difference
I mean, we'd also have to nix

Yogurt
Cheese
Sauerkraut
Pickles
Kefir
Miso
Natto
Kimchee
Sourdough & bread

I have tons of lds friends making kombucha these days! It's tea that's fermented after being steeped.

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2bizE
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Re: Green tea is officially bad for you, against WoW

Post by 2bizE » Sat Aug 17, 2019 9:23 pm

The big irony is that everyone outside of Mormonism knows how healthy tea is. It’s almost like if the church came out and said that water is bad and must be avoided Ike the plague. Our church is looking more like the cult it is. This should really help the church expand in Asia.
~2bizE

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Re: Green tea is officially bad for you, against WoW

Post by FiveFingerMnemonic » Sun Aug 18, 2019 7:44 am

Here is where the coffee and tea interpretation likely comes from or was "stolen" from:
Although the revelations left many of the issues raised by Samuel Underhill and his Kendal Community (see chaps. 5, 7) unresolved, the growing Mormonite congregation continued to discuss these issues among themselves. One of the subjects that may have been part of their conversation was an Owenite interest in proper diet as part of their reform efforts. As one of the leaders of the Kendal Community, Samuel Underhill preached in the villages surrounding Kirtland, and probably in Kirtland itself, on diet and health. He became a leading force in the region’s rising temperance movement, expanding the discussion from promoting abstinence from alcohol to a general avoidance of other unhealthy substances. In 1829, just as the Kendal Community dissolved and Kirtland’s Morley Family organized, Underhill wrote down some of what he was preaching. As a former Quaker, he borrowed scriptural language and forms for his instruction:



Now it came to pass that the sons of men found in the land a certain plant having broad leaves and an acrid taste and it stupified the people. 2. And some burned it and drew the smoke thereof into their mouths & some put it in their mouths and spit forth the juice thereof for it was much & many made it very fine and drew it into their noses. . . . [H]earken unto wisdom & be ye saved. 6. Strong drink is ruin; much wine is an evil, tea is a curse, coffee is injurious, tobaccoes disgustful and poisonous and altogether are a great damnation. 6. [repeated number] Drink water alone, live on simple diet take due exercise and ye shall be happy.35

 

In addition, Underhill lectured locally on limiting the consumption of meat and particularly recommended abstaining from pork. His lectures generated a continuing discussion among members of the Mormonites in Kirtland since Levi Hancock, who had not been a part of the Morley Family, recalled, “The preaching in Kirtland was against the use of pork."


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Hagoth
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Re: Green tea is officially bad for you, against WoW

Post by Hagoth » Sun Aug 18, 2019 8:03 am

When WoW discussions come up I always like to point out that hot chocolate and soup were also once banned because the danger of hot drinks was understood to be from the fact that they were hot and had nothing to do with caffeine or anything else found exclusively in coffee and tea.

For example, President George Q. Cannon said "…we must feed our children properly.... We must not permit them to drink liquor or hot drinks, or hot soups or to use tobacco or other articles that are injurious." (JD. V.12:221&223. George Q. Cannon 7 Apr 1868).
“The easy confidence with which I know another man's religion is folly teaches me to suspect that my own is also.” -Mark Twain

Jesus: "The Kingdom of God is within you." The Buddha: "Be your own light."

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