NOM

Looks like the Silver fox is joining us for stake conference next weekend. Guess I will have to try and attend that one to see what all the excitement is about listening to a former airline pilot and corporate executive board member who still can't heal people.

Incidentally if he is also coming to your stake next week we should try and meet each other. Pretty sure I'm the only NOM here though.

Don't know whether you could attend the leadership meeting I'm sure they will have on Saturday night but if Uchtdorf does like Henry B. Eyring and opens it up for questions, I would LOVE to have a do over on that!

They'd run me out of the chapel...

"Elder Uchtdorf, do you think as historian Richard Bushman stated, 'The church needs to closely align it's foundational stories with the truth?'"

FiveFingerMnemonic wrote: ↑Sun Aug 18, 2019 11:24 am Looks like the Silver fox is joining us for stake conference next weekend. Guess I will have to try and attend that one to see what all the excitement is about listening to a former airline pilot and corporate executive board member who still can't heal people.

I’ve said it many times - President Uchtdorf is just as bad as the rest of them, he just has more charisma than all of the rest of them combined. In a way he’s worse than the rest - it’s fairly easy to see President Oaks is a jerk, he doesn’t even try to hide it, but the Silver Fox is more cunning and subtle. He knows how to put up a warm fuzzy front all the while supporting the demeaning policies of heartless, soulless organization. And “doubt your doubts” should have told us all everything we need to know about how supportive he is of us NOM types. Don’t kid yourself - he’s as Church broke as the rest of them.

I really don’t get the love for the guy among the disaffected. Some of the most dangerous people out there are the ones who can charm your socks off while robbing you blind.

And as you so rightly suggest, he claims to be something he is not. Until he heals people like the apostles of the New Testament, he has no right to claim to be just like them.

Not Buying It wrote: ↑Mon Aug 19, 2019 5:40 am Don’t kid yourself - he’s as Church broke as the rest of them.

Yep.

After being raised to adore the Q15 and then actually becoming one, the huge ego trip and prestige are probably impossible for Uchtdorf to overcome. Regardless of what he might suspect in his heart of hearts is true.

Plus the 1st. Pres. has him emotionally locked in with the extra special, superduper, razmataz, abracadabra, 2nd anointing. How could he turn his back on that!?!?

He is just so WAY, WAY special now.

FiveFingerMnemonic wrote: ↑Sun Aug 18, 2019 11:26 am Incidentally if he is also coming to your stake next week we should try and meet each other. Pretty sure I'm the only NOM here though.

We have stake conference next week, but no GA is coming. I wouldn't mind hearing the Silver Fox "off the record".

I agree that Dieter is as church broke as the rest of them, perhaps, even with a little more knowledge into the issues and one that really knows the truth. But after he had the Faith Crisis Report in his hands and did his famous Doubt Your Doubts/Past Leader Mistakes talk, it seemed like that talk was his struggle with the real reasons people were leaving and his effort to start the inoculation campaign with the essays. Then they kicked him down the ladder. Will be interesting to see if his attitude is changed; I'm guessing they kicked him down and he's playing nicer now, not stirring the pot anymore.

I have this fantasy that for stake visits my house gets chosen and he shows up so I can grill him over the fire with questions and ask him to heal my paralyzed neighbor. I'm guessing apostles don't stoop that low though.

I'm not certain he's AS church broke in his beliefs as some of them but he is as inextricably entwined in the institution, so the result is the same.

FiveFingerMnemonic wrote: ↑Mon Aug 19, 2019 2:49 pm I have this fantasy that for stake visits my house gets chosen and he shows up so I can grill him over the fire with questions and ask him to heal my paralyzed neighbor. I'm guessing apostles don't stoop that low though.

My fantasy is to meet Bednar and ask him to strike me down and show me his awesome power, like Korihor in the BOM. Go ahead fetcher! Strike me dead or dumb! If everyone in the room should standup when you enter, then make an example out of me! I'm the wicked generation that's asking for a sign! He'd refuse, at which point I'd tell him he is one of the most abhorrent and dishonest men in this world, making a living off the backs of innocent people by making them believe he has some power from God when the truth is he does not.

FiveFingerMnemonic wrote: ↑Sun Aug 18, 2019 11:24 am Looks like the Silver fox is joining us for stake conference next weekend. Guess I will have to try and attend that one to see what all the excitement is about listening to a former airline pilot and corporate executive board member who still can't heal people.

Let us know if anything actually profound gets stated. Like others have said, he's entirely entwined in the top quorum which is a bubble inside a larger bubble. But, I think Dieter harbors some empathy for doubters. Let us know if anything interesting gets presented.

RubinHighlander wrote: ↑Mon Aug 19, 2019 4:10 pm

FiveFingerMnemonic wrote: ↑Mon Aug 19, 2019 2:49 pm I have this fantasy that for stake visits my house gets chosen and he shows up so I can grill him over the fire with questions and ask him to heal my paralyzed neighbor. I'm guessing apostles don't stoop that low though.

My fantasy is to meet Bednar and ask him to strike me down and show me his awesome power, like Korihor in the BOM. Go ahead fetcher! Strike me dead or dumb! If everyone in the room should standup when you enter, then make an example out of me! I'm the wicked generation that's asking for a sign! He'd refuse, at which point I'd tell him he is one of the most abhorrent and dishonest men in this world, making a living off the backs of innocent people by making them believe he has some power from God when the truth is he does not.

Korihor's curse was instrumental in the salvation of the Nephites. I'd take a curse in order to help my family and neighbors live more righteously. Funny how a god that is the same yesterday, today, and forever changes his tactics so much.

We actually had a ZL on my mission who counseled missionaries to show investigators the story of Korihor when someone asked for a sign.We were to promise that they would get a sign to their condemnation. I am unaware of anyone who had an ill effect from a missionary curse.

Get an audio recorder app for you phone and record the meeting. It isn't too hard but make sure to test things out before the actual meeting. You never know when one of these guys will say something interesting, and it is always nice to have a recording of it. We are a record keeping people after all...

Recorded the talk but nothing really groundbreaking was said.

The impression I get is that these conferences are tedious for them. Dieter looked like he had a cold and is getting older and tired.

Mostly it was a sermon on the for the strength of youth pamphlet and getting a temple recommend.

He used the word "mormon" once and also told the story/joke of Steve Young in the locker room where the other NFL players were asking where they could get a pair of garments and Steve replied that they "are too expensive".

Talked about how LDS can be too insular and unwelcoming, even here in Utah or especially here in Utah. Theme was to be "open" and welcoming.

That's about it. The only bonus was it was only 1.5 hrs long instead of the typical 2 hours.

FiveFingerMnemonic wrote: ↑Sun Aug 25, 2019 11:03 am Recorded the talk but nothing really groundbreaking was said.

The impression I get is that these conferences are tedious for them. Dieter looked like he had a cold and is getting older and tired.

Mostly it was a sermon on the for the strength of youth pamphlet and getting a temple recommend.

He used the word "mormon" once and also told the story/joke of Steve Young in the locker room where the other NFL players were asking where they could get a pair of garments and Steve replied that they "are too expensive".

Talked about how LDS can be too insular and unwelcoming, even here in Utah or especially here in Utah. Theme was to be "open" and welcoming.

That's about it. The only bonus was it was only 1.5 hrs long instead of the typical 2 hours.

The old "rinse and repeat", eh? That must get so tiresome for those guys. But hey, anything for the true church.....

Palerider wrote: ↑Sun Aug 25, 2019 11:11 am Talked about how LDS can be too insular and unwelcoming, even here in Utah or especially here in Utah. Theme was to be "open" and welcoming.

Sounds like a good message for your stake. That is, after all, a real problem.

The Church made a PR blunder by not retaining Elder Uchtdoft in the First Presidency.

moksha wrote: ↑Sun Aug 25, 2019 5:04 pm

Palerider wrote: ↑Sun Aug 25, 2019 11:11 am Talked about how LDS can be too insular and unwelcoming, even here in Utah or especially here in Utah. Theme was to be "open" and welcoming.

Sounds like a good message for your stake. That is, after all, a real problem.

The Church made a PR blunder by not retaining Elder Uchtdoft in the First Presidency.

Yup, the church will let the ego of one person put them into a publicly embarrassing position that they are now stuck with for years to come. The sad part is just how often this is the case and primary driving factor of LDSinc. How many of the PR blunders of the last half century are driven by the ego of one or two people?

* Blacks & the priesthood? Several members of the Q15 were pushing for this as early as the late 50's, but a few holdovers delayed it for decades. They eventually pushed OD2 though when they were out on assignment and unable to vote.
* The name "Mormon" being evil? A pet peeve of MRN.
* POX? A few pushed it through and then they had to backtrack.
* It sounds like a number of the high profile excommunications were due to them offending someone in the Q15.

Palerider wrote: ↑Sun Aug 25, 2019 11:11 am The old "rinse and repeat", eh? That must get so tiresome for those guys. But hey, anything for the true church.....

Anything to keep your investments and extended family's quality of life in tact. Integrity be damned!