NOM

I have noticed when leaders talk they tend to be invoke the love factor. They constantly say how much they love everyone and how humbled they are by it

Frankly it annoys me. It is almost like it is used as an excuse sometimes. I love you so that justifies the comments I am going to make.

Is it love or just a conditioned talking point in Mormonism. How do you love people you do not know, or will ever know? It cheapens what real love is. Something deep, a connection that binds your souls. Not because you have the same membership card.

Love should not be an excuse to do bad things or a way of not taking responsibility.

I would rather listen to someone that has something intelligent to say, than listen to oozing emotional platitudes, used to justify a position or defend a bad policy.

Tolerate would more aptly be used in many instances.

I noticed that the November policy was motivated by love for certain people and then rescinded out of love for those same people. How does that work?

1smartdodog wrote: ↑Thu Sep 26, 2019 9:58 am I have noticed when leaders talk they tend to be invoke the love factor. They constantly say how much they love everyone and how humbled they are by it

Frankly it annoys me. It is almost like it is used as an excuse sometimes. I love you so that justifies the comments I am going to make.

Is it love or just a conditioned talking point in Mormonism. How do you love people you do not know, or will ever know? It cheapens what real love is. Something deep, a connection that binds your souls. Not because you have the same membership card.

Love should not be an excuse to do bad things or a way of not taking responsibility.

I would rather listen to someone that has something intelligent to say, than listen to oozing emotional platitudes, used to justify a position or defend a bad policy.

Tolerate would more aptly be used in many instances.

This is a pet peeve of mine. Caused by bad experience. See, when we were junior enlisted, my husband got unaccompanied orders to Berlin, wall still up, dollar mark situation so bad it was impossible for junior enlisted to both pay rent and eat. The UK and France, ....well and Russia all gave their junior enlisted an accomplice tour. Which meant they could live in the military housing with their wife. But cheapskate US did not allow housing for married junior enlisted, so we were at the mercy of the German economy. Rent was so expensive and life so hard that many wives returned to the US. OK, imagine the equivalent of $1,000 per month for a coal heated rat hole, when you only earn $1,200 per month. There literally was not enough money left after rent to eat any thing but peanut butter sandwiches. Now, I was pregnant with my first, with a serious case of preeclampsia and couldn’t even eat normal food, let alone peanut butter and bread. The ward over there believed that there was no need for church welfare because the military takes care of people, right? Unless you were junior enlisted with a wife, then you could damn well starve.

So, every fast and testimony meeting the ward gets up and says how much they love this ward and the wonderful caring people in it. I mean the most gushing, “Oh, I just love everyone so much. But the branch president was the other OBG dr, and he wasn’t even aware that I was high risk, OK, super high risk pregnancy because since I was high risk, I saw the most experienced dr only. So, he obviously never even asked his fellow dr about the people in the branch.

There was ONE person in that ward who cared enough to find out how junior enlisted were coping. He is my #1 hero to this day. He was the AFB commander. 90% of the ward was army, so he really only had about 4 accompanied junior enlisted in his command. But he was doing things to help, like a food pantry and used clothing. It was his second time in Berlin, and he was loved by the Berlin people. Y’all will know him as the Candy Bomber from the Berlin Air Lift. Gail Halverson. He didn’t stop being a hero just because the air lift was over. He was even a good and interesting gospel doctrine teacher.

So, all the talk about loving each other was only for the army folk who lived on base. They were oblivious to those of us living on the German economy.

Love is an action, not just a warm fuzzy feeling. So, don’t stand up and gush about how much you love everyone when you really don’t give a shit about those who might be a little different.

I think the pronouncements of love is a kind of virtue signaling.

We’re talking about a church that’s been modified through correlation resulting in reduced doctrine so shallow that emotional platitudes are all that’s left.

Earlier this year the wife and I went hiking on a Saturday and ended up running into our stake president on the trail. He didn’t have a clue who we were. The next morning at church the high councilman gets up and brings his love from the stake president and tells everyone that the Stake president knows each of us individually and prays for our spiritual well being. It’s hilarious to think about the emotional manipulation going on.

I used to really hate it when the drycouncil people would "bring love from the stake president." I guess when the mantle descends upon those who have stewardship over others it automatically enables them to love everyone with a greater capacity than before. What a crock. Especially when that stake president can be an a$$.

I have asked myself why Catholics and other religious groups seem to provide the most help for the homeless and hungry in Salt Lake City. I think it might have something to do with Jesus admonition to love the "others".

Emower wrote: ↑Thu Sep 26, 2019 2:06 pm I used to really hate it when the drycouncil people would "bring love from the stake president." I guess when the mantle descends upon those who have stewardship over others it automatically enables them to love everyone with a greater capacity than before. What a crock. Especially when that stake president can be an a$$.

That really makes the last years of few dry-council talks I sat through disturbing considering what was going on in my stake at the time.

I love Mormons so much that I'm going to dedicate my entire life to convincing them of the errors of their ways. I will do everything in my power to save them from hell.

See how that works?

Just because it's love from the perspective of the giver does not mean it's love from the perspective of the recipient/target of that "love."

Red Ryder wrote: ↑Thu Sep 26, 2019 10:51 am Earlier this year the wife and I went hiking on a Saturday and ended up running into our stake president on the trail. He didn’t have a clue who we were. The next morning at church the high councilman gets up and brings his love from the stake president and tells everyone that the Stake president knows each of us individually and prays for our spiritual well being. It’s hilarious to think about the emotional manipulation going on.

Seriously so bogus and disingenuous how they throw that L word around. An SP I worked with for over 10 years as a Stake IT clerk, also jerked DW and I around when we wanted to get sealed in the temple and jerked us around again when we wanted to have my step daughter sealed to me. He's got the biggest house in the neighborhood and bought a hummer for his daughter to drive to HS. His kids all drove BMWs or other luxury cars. He was very full of himself. Anyway, he used that word and emotional platitudes a lot; definitely being groomed to move into the 70 someday.

Yesterday this SP and his DW were closing on a refi and my DW who works in title met with them to close the deal. She was worried, really struggled to see this guy face to face again because of all our negative dealings with him in the past. He didn't remember her. She was relieved.

What would be a more honest and less church-speaky?

"Today I come with deep love for each of you as I share this message of truth"

becomes

"You guys aren't doing what I think you should be doing, but I have to say it nicely or you won't listen."

alas wrote: ↑Thu Sep 26, 2019 10:38 amLove is an action, not just a warm fuzzy feeling. So, don’t stand up and gush about how much you love everyone when you really don’t give a shit about those who might be a little different.

This is so true. Love is an action. Ought to be a meme - or on a t-shirt or coffee mug.

Red Ryder wrote: ↑Thu Sep 26, 2019 10:51 amEarlier this year the wife and I went hiking on a Saturday and ended up running into our stake president on the trail. He didn’t have a clue who we were. The next morning at church the high councilman gets up and brings his love from the stake president and tells everyone that the Stake president knows each of us individually and prays for our spiritual well being. It’s hilarious to think about the emotional manipulation going on.

I lived in a stake where the stake president really did know everyone in the stake (and it spanned 2 1/2 or 3 towns). Granted, he grew up in the area, so he had a head start, but he knew my name (and I was a newcomer to the area, as well as one of those people easily forgotten). Even years and years later, he seemed to remember me when I attended a singles conference (post 2 divorces, when I'd first met him pre-any-marriage, plus he'd had a stint as a mission prez and 70 in the interim).

I don't know if he just had an incredible memory, was determined to know the name of everyone in his stake, or what - but I do know he was not the norm.

He also used to spread rumors before each stake conference to get the numbers up. One year, he spread the rumor that an apostle was coming. And one did - to divide the stake (it was so large that each stake conference had to have two sessions, one for each half of the stake).

nibbler wrote: ↑Fri Sep 27, 2019 7:01 am I love Mormons so much that I'm going to dedicate my entire life to convincing them of the errors of their ways. I will do everything in my power to save them from hell.

See how that works?

Just because it's love from the perspective of the giver does not mean it's love from the perspective of the recipient/target of that "love."

Yep. Like giving candy to a diabetic, meat loaf to a vegetarian, or a warm loaf of bread and cookies to someone gluten-intolerant.

I have sincere and quite strong doubts that the gents know what love even means, even on an ecclesiastical level. One of the most profound books I just finished reading (Besides Martin Gardner's "The Why's of a Philosophical Scrivener" My gawd he was a THEIST! Truly! That was very encouraging actually, but Gardner was not an atheist!) was Aldous Huxley's "The Perennial Philosophy."
If the church actually did want to sort of help solve their attendance problems, they could expand out into other literatures besides their own faith promoting fluff. This is sincerely one of the books I would recommend. Actually, both of the above books are worthy reads and quite stimulating!