NOM

I’ve been studying recently about the temple garment and have learned a few new facts (new to me). One of the best history lessons is from a post on Mormon Dialogue and Discussions started by Consigliere. I read a recent remark from Red Ryder that “Jesus didn’t wear garments”. Well, according to garment lore, Jesus did wear garments, and so did Angel Mormoni. Yep, the old gold plates carrying guy, gave Joseph Smith a peak at his garments. And I always thought he went around commando under that white robe....who knew?
Also, the first garment was called a shirt, being placed on the guy during initiation into the Lodge (sounds Masonic doesn’t it?). At the veil, the veil worker would take scissors and cut out the marks on the shirt. I read elsewhere that for the knee mark, he would gouge the guy below the right knee with the scissors causing an actual scar!
What are your thoughts?

http://www.mormondialogue.org/topic/519 ... e-garment/

Ouch! Makes me think of my dad saying it’d be a lot more comfortable and less money to just tattoo the markings and be done with it. That could be less painful than a scissor gouge too!

Jesus Christ, the rabbit hole never ends.

I studied this about 3 years ago and when it got to the part where the seamstress (can't remember her name) was told by Joseph that Moroni had shown him his garments or given him the pattern, I thought the same thing. That in his prior visit Joseph had noted that Moroni wore nothing but his robe and he could see into his bosom.

No doubt Joseph just lost track of his lies and pulled the Moroni story out of his.....blue sky, just to impress the seamstress.

Even the best liars screw up once in awhile.

I think people will make up all sorts of weird things and practices. Sometimes to get power over others, sometimes it is an attempt to please god. Some people will just believe weird things no matter what.

Of course everyone who believes weird things thinks they are perfectly rational, and it is the other person that has strange beliefs.



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Palerider wrote: ↑Tue Oct 01, 2019 7:37 am I studied this about 3 years ago and when it got to the part where the seamstress (can't remember her name) was told by Joseph that Moroni had shown him his garments or given him the pattern, I thought the same thing. That in his prior visit Joseph had noted that Moroni wore nothing but his robe and he could see into his bosom.

No doubt Joseph just lost track of his lies and pulled the Moroni story out of his.....blue sky, just to impress the seamstress.

Even the best liars screw up once in awhile.

I'll have to look for the other sources from when the garments were first made. I do remember reading the JS directed the pattern of the garments to match what Moroni wore. I he also remember reading that JS taught the garment pattern should never change, and if it did that would signify the loss of priesthood authority.

As to whether or not Moroni actually wore garments... JS History 1:31

31 He had on a loose robe of most exquisite whiteness. It was a whiteness beyond anything earthly I had ever seen; nor do I believe that any earthly thing could be made to appear so exceedingly white and brilliant. His hands were naked, and his arms also, a little above the wrist; so, also, were his feet naked, as were his legs, a little above the ankles. His head and neck were also bare. I could discover that he had no other clothing on but this robe, as it was open, so that I could see into his bosom.

I don't know what naked arms "a little above the wrist" means. Where only his wrists naked? Or his arms? Obviously, if he wore nothing under his robe and JS could see "into" his bosom, then he wasn't wearing a garment like anything we have today.

I'll come back when I find more sources.

edit:

The Development of the Mormon Temple Endowment Ceremony (dialoguejournal.com)

Recent article by Jana Riess (religionnews.com)

...aaaand I'm having trouble finding much more. My original reading may have come from the garments blurb of the mormonthink page on the temple. However, all the links listed on mormonthink are now broken.

Anyone else?

George A. Smith recalled that Jesus wore the garment when he appeared in the Kirtland temple: "On the first day of the dedication, President Fredrick G. Williams, one of the Council of the Prophet, and who occupied the upper pulpit, bore testimony that the Savior, dressed in his vesture without seam, came into the stand and accepted of the dedication of the house, that he saw him, and gave a description of his clothing and all things pertaining to it."23
David John Buerger, The Mysteries of Godliness; p.142

This shows:

1. Jesus was a Freemason.
2. If Jesus can appear in the Temple in his garments, then it is okay to walk around your house in underwear.

Hope that helps.

What a strange world we live in that 180 years ago a con man comes up with this kooky idea for his followers and as a result I have hardly ever seen my wife in anything but the unsexiest underwear on the planet. All because one guy pulled a crackpot idea out of his butt one day.

moksha wrote: ↑Tue Oct 01, 2019 8:54 am

George A. Smith recalled that Jesus wore the garment when he appeared in the Kirtland temple: "On the first day of the dedication, President Fredrick G. Williams, one of the Council of the Prophet, and who occupied the upper pulpit, bore testimony that the Savior, dressed in his vesture without seam, came into the stand and accepted of the dedication of the house, that he saw him, and gave a description of his clothing and all things pertaining to it."23
David John Buerger, The Mysteries of Godliness; p.142

This shows:

1. Jesus was a Freemason.
2. If Jesus can appear in the Temple in his garments, then it is okay to walk around your house in underwear.

Hope that helps.

First of all, how would George A. Smith or Fredrick G. Williams know what Jesus wore? He was behind the curtain and there was no mention of garments in the third-person-later-changed-to-first-person account that we have.

Secondly, George A. Smith is the last person I would believe about anything. He gave us the milk stripping story, the transformation of Brigham Young, the long scroll, the lies that incited the Mountain Meadows massacre...

Not Buying It wrote: ↑Tue Oct 01, 2019 9:34 am What a strange world we live in that 180 years ago a con man comes up with this kooky idea for his followers and as a result I have hardly ever seen my wife in anything but the unsexiest underwear on the planet. All because one guy pulled a crackpot idea out of his butt one day.

I’m laughing and crying at the same time!

Hagoth wrote: ↑Tue Oct 01, 2019 10:13 am First of all, how would George A. Smith or Fredrick G. Williams know what Jesus wore?

That is where the miracle of the active imagination comes into play. You cannot exercise your spiritual eyes without the power of make-believe. Seeing such a garment would be lost to raccoons and whales. To them, the King would be naked.