NOM

There's a post on LDSFF that brings up the possible illegality of the Church not really removing one's name. I was wondering what you all thought about it. Personally, I think they bring up good points.

Now there is an interesting question in all of this one I have never seen addressed. While we say that name removal or excommunication removes one from the records of the church is this indeed really the case? Let's say someone had their name removed would it not be a reasonable assumption that the church would simply hit the delete key in the database removing all record of that person. What would happen if this is not the case and the person decideds to go to another location and test the name removal by attempting to join the church again as a new investigator? If the membership system were to kick back this person as having once been a member ist would seem to me that they would have grounds for a legal case given that, in fact their name had not been "removed" from the records of the church as they had been told they were.

https://www.ldsfreedomforum.com/viewtop ... 37#p969837

My question goes to the point of the idea of having ones “name removed” if such is really the case then no record of that person should even exist and the whole practice of church membership would start anew because there is simply no record of that person in the churches possession.

I’m unsure what exactly people are told is going on with the records but I think we should be very careful what we are saying. This looks like a legal mine field to me.

https://www.ldsfreedomforum.com/viewtop ... 82#p969982

Many companies keep a record of former customers. No matter how much you tell the caller trying to get you to sign up to their service, that you found their service to be not as promised and you will never buy from them again, you are still on their list and they call you twice a year until you change your phone number. It was 20 years before we could get rid of calls about one magazine. The church at least leaves you alone if you request your name taken off their “calling list.” So, I suspect that keeping a record of former members is totally legal.

alas wrote: ↑Sun Oct 06, 2019 10:26 am Many companies keep a record of former customers. No matter how much you tell the caller trying to get you to sign up to their service, that you found their service to be not as promised and you will never buy from them again, you are still on their list and they call you twice a year until you change your phone number. It was 20 years before we could get rid of calls about one magazine.

Wow! I totally did not know that.

The church at least leaves you alone if you request your name taken off their “calling list.”

That's true.

So, I suspect that keeping a record of former members is totally legal.

Sounds like it is.

Laws about data retention vary around the world.

I'm told that European laws are much stricter than in the US. In Europe, if you request to have your info removed, failure to do so carried hefty fines. Only applies to European citizens though.

The US doesn't have the same protection. In fact US law says that they only have to remove data in the US. If all their data about you is on a server in a different country, they don't have to do anything. Part of the reason Facebook has all their big servers in Ireland, that way they have a loophole to US laws.

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"Removing your name" has nothing to do with actual removal.

Your name will always be in the database of LD$-Inc. It might not be "on the rolls" but they will never remove "everything." Name removal simply means your local ward won't know you were a member, they "might" not bother you, and a bishop cannot request information about you. (Whatever annotation may be attached to your membership record.)

Ever hear about anyone being re-baptized? Yeah, there's a reason they call it re-baptism. Anyone who makes that decision will have all of their previous membership information restored. Ever heard of the "restoration of blessings" 'ordinance?' That's what can happen a year after someone gets re-baptized. It "restores" the "endowment" for males and females, and for males it "restores" their previous magical priesthood powers. No need to re-do the endowment, no need for males to re-do all of the magical priesthood ordinations.

My guess is that LD$-Inc. NEVER actually "removes" any information they store about you, They just flag membership status as yes or no.


As others have mentioned: Businesses have rights in the US to store information about you that they have gathered whether you like it or not... I'm not privy to those actual rules, but expecting LD$-Inc. to remove any and all information about you if you resign? Well it ain't gonna happen...

Thanks for the info, Just This Guy and wtfluff.

Bottom line, It isn't illegal, and the person's idea that it is, is incorrect in the U.S. (I think they're from Australia, but not sure, so the laws may be different there.)

And if, for some reason, I decide to rejoin, I do so under a different name and birth date/place (not that that will ever happen).

edit: added a comma so it would make more sense.

There are companies(Google, Facebook, Amazon...) that have large databases of millions of people’s personal data. They know where you go, where you have been, what you buy, the websites you view, your political and religious views, and many other things that we probably don’t even know ourselves. The church is an amateur when it comes to storing data about its current or past members.

Now that you bring it up, oliblish, I can see that the LDS Church is peanuts in comparison to the mega monoliths that probably know where we pee and what food causes us to break out in hives, as well as what porn each person who views it likes best.

Daymon Smith's book of mammon discusses the fact that resignation is merely a flag in the database that gets flipped.

All are necessary in the body of MSR, even deletions and requested removals remain in some sector of the digital realms thrown into being at the COB. There is always the possibility that the body might repent and return to faithful activity in the <hur<h. Thus MSR allows “Member Readmit” to claim numbers, to rebaptize with a keystroke, as it were, the lost sheep renewed and committed to clean living in the digital and even fleshy realms. But their sins are not not remembered no longer. In this efficient and unforgiving realm only duplicates, such as those shapely twins 99166 and 99166 are deleted, and we can’t bear to watch. Which one is erased from the void? Honestly, we can’t tell the difference.

Wonder if there is any truth to the rumor that the LDS Names Removed folder is kept on the special White House server, in between High Crimes and Misdemeanors and Official Secrets?

It's not in the White House. Mitt keeps a copy on his personal e-mail server.

I do wonder if how the church complies with European personal info laws. My understanding is that if a EU citizen tells a entity to remove all their personal information from their computer systems, they are required to do so or can face steep fines.

So if an ex-mo in Europe wanted their info removed, would they comply? And if they did comply wold that remove all records of previous baptism, making them eligible for baptism again as a first time convert as far as the database is concerned?

Or are church's exempt form the personal information laws? I could be wrong here so please feel free to correct me.