NOM

Come Follow Me, week 4, Jan. 20-26, 1 Ne 11-15
Annotated BoM starting at 1 Nephi 11
And, “Response to Manifest Destiny – Taught at Brigham Young University Education Week”

If I wanted to encourage thought and try to understand devout believers better, I might ask:  
"How might non-Mormons or Mormons who are Native Americans be affected by the Book of Mormon passages claiming Lamanites were scattered and smitten 1,000 years after their ancestors dwindled in unbelief?"

Things to consider:  

• In 1 Ne 13:12 Nephi says that in a vision he, "beheld a man among the Gentiles, . . . and I beheld the Spirit of God, that it came down and wrought upon the man; and he went forth upon the many waters, even unto the seed of my brethren, who were in the promised land."
• The Church has declared unequivocally that this man whom the Spirit wrought upon was Christopher Columbus (Book of Mormon Student Manual for Religion 121-122 copyrighted 2009, pp. 27-28)
• Juxtaposed to the Book of Mormon portrayal of the Spirit of God inspiring Columbus is the brutality that Columbus himself would inflict and that his explorations would unleash.
• In some references to the scattering and smiting of Lamanites described in the Book of Mormon I have referred to colonial imperialism and cultural colonialism, but something about this reference to Columbus seems more aptly described as manifest destiny. Please refer to the blog post “Response to Manifest Destiny – Taught at Brigham Young University Education Week” to see what I mean.
• Many statements like the following have never been specifically denounced by the Church: "I saw a striking contrast in the progress of the Indian people today ... they are fast becoming a white and delightsome people.... For years they have been growing delightsome, and they are now becoming white and delightsome, as they were promised.... The children in the home placement program in Utah are often lighter than their brothers and sisters in the hogans on the reservation” (Elder Kimball, October 1960 General Conference; ellipses as found here. For more quotes showing this is still a problem, see “Response to Manifest Destiny – Taught at Brigham Young University Education Week”.

If you could ask believers questions about this week's Come Follow Me lesson, what would you ask?

Have fun studying!
Annotated Book of Mormon

Previous Weeks

• Week 1
• Week 2
• Week 3

"Should we refrain from calling Native Americans Lamanites because they have absolutely no DNA indicators of Middle Eastern ancestry?"

That is one question that could be asked.

moksha wrote: ↑Sun Jan 19, 2020 10:13 am "Should we refrain from calling Native Americans Lamanites because they have absolutely no DNA indicators of Middle Eastern ancestry?"

That is one question that could be asked.

I like this if only for the fact that I think most believers would get where you’re coming from at some level. I base that on my persecution that the Church has backed away from using the term for Native Americans so often and I think many members have followed suite. I’m not saying they’ve officially recognized it’s not accurate or not appropriate, but they seem to feel uncomfortable themselves with the way the term has been synonymous with Native Americans.

What do you think Moksha? Have they already started scaling down their use of “Lamanites?”

I grew up in northern Arizona and know a bunch of "Lamanite" Mormons. I Had a seminary teacher that claimed we should call LDS Native Americans "Nephites" since they had "returned" to the gospel.

The most faithful of them really like their Book of Mormon heritage as the faithful would describe. They have some old Hopi legends that fit into the LDS gospel as they understand it. Some of them find that the genetic testing from places like "23 And Me" is curious because their ancestry is Asiatic, not Middle Eastern.

Corsair wrote: ↑Sun Jan 19, 2020 1:33 pm Some of them find that the genetic testing from places like "23 And Me" is curious because their ancestry is Asiatic, not Middle Eastern.

I find this so sad considering it’s because they’ve been sold a story about their heritage that just isn’t so.

Thank you for sharing.

Corsair wrote: ↑Sun Jan 19, 2020 1:33 pm I grew up in northern Arizona and know a bunch of "Lamanite" Mormons. I Had a seminary teacher that claimed we should call LDS Native Americans "Nephites" since they had "returned" to the gospel.

The most faithful of them really like their Book of Mormon heritage as the faithful would describe. They have some old Hopi legends that fit into the LDS gospel as they understand it. Some of them find that the genetic testing from places like "23 And Me" is curious because their ancestry is Asiatic, not Middle Eastern.

I was talking to a Navajo college student a few months ago about the negative feelings that many Navajos have about these teachings. When I was a kid LDS many members of the Navajo tribe called themselves Lamanites. I asked him how many people he knows who self-identify that way today and he said, "none."

Hagoth wrote: ↑Sun Jan 19, 2020 4:22 pm When I was a kid LDS many members of the Navajo tribe called themselves Lamanites. I asked him how many people he knows who self-identify that way today and he said, "none."

Buying into being a Lamanite meant buying into inheriting the genetic and spiritual curse of dark skin.

Getting back to Annotatedbom's question, the Church has lessened the impact of Lamanite presence by arguing that the cursed DNA has been so thoroughly intermixed with Asiatic DNA as to be undetectable. Unfortunately for the purveyors of that argument, testing methods have progressed to the point where all markers are detected, and it points to no Middle Eastern DNA.

moksha wrote: ↑Sun Jan 19, 2020 10:12 pm Getting back to Annotatedbom's question, the Church has lessened the impact of Lamanite presence by arguing that the cursed DNA has been so thoroughly intermixed with Asiatic DNA as to be undetectable. Unfortunately for the purveyors of that argument, testing methods have progressed to the point where all markers are detected, and it points to no Middle Eastern DNA.

Surely you can see the pattern here, Moksha. All of the physical evidence for the BoM is so consistently nonexistent that God must have intentionally erased it for the benefit of our faith. Thank goodness He left NHM for those of us who are credibility-challenged to cling to with the last stubborn fiber of our apologetic tenacity.

Hagoth wrote: ↑Mon Jan 20, 2020 8:51 am All of the physical evidence for the BoM is so consistently nonexistent that God must have intentionally erased it for the benefit of our faith. Thank goodness He left NHM for those of us who are credibility-challenged to cling to with the last stubborn fiber of our apologetic tenacity.

And the trixster God rears his ugly head once again. If you use evidence, logic, and reason... if you use your god-given brain, you're wrong. The only way to be saved is to accept the unacceptable, believe the unbelievable, and trust in the incredible.

Hagoth wrote: ↑Mon Jan 20, 2020 8:51 am Surely you can see the pattern here, Moksha. All of the physical evidence for the BoM is so consistently nonexistent that God must have intentionally erased it for the benefit of our faith. Thank goodness He left NHM for those of us who are credibility-challenged to cling to with the last stubborn fiber of our apologetic tenacity.

When I was an active member I just NEVER thought about this problem... I just assumed it was going to be found eventually since that was what I was told.

But every time I think about it now I just think of this meme that comes around every once in a while on reddit/etc: