NOM

slavereeno wrote: ↑Wed Dec 16, 2020 12:15 pm Sorry to hear that you are feeling estranged. That sucks.

DW has gone to lengths to hide our disaffection from our family. However, there is still some suspicion, so we still get avoided a little.

wtfluff wrote: ↑Wed Dec 16, 2020 2:42 pm MORmONism basically estranged my family of origin from each other, even when we were all attempting to be good MORmONs. "The Church" was always the most important thing in my family, which is what I believed caused the estr

græy wrote: ↑Thu Dec 17, 2020 8:03 am I'm sorry you have to deal with all of this on top of everything else, Thoughtful.

wtfluff wrote: ↑Wed Dec 16, 2020 2:42 pm MORmONism basically estranged my family of origin from each other, even when we were all attempting to be good MORmONs. "The Church" was always the most important thing in my family, which is what I believed caused the estr

This is my family too. It is at least a 2-day drive to visit family. My parents refuse to fly to they only make the trip maybe once a year. Often they will drive for two days to get here late at night, stay for two days, then drive for two days to get home to teach a sunbeam lesson. Their own grandchildren are here and only see them roughly 5 days a year total, but those sunbeams can't miss a Sunday.

Thoughtful wrote: ↑Tue Dec 15, 2020 7:45 pm I know I'm not the only one informally estranged from certain family members.

However, it's anyone formally estranged from specific relatives within a big old ugly Mormon dynasty?

Did you set boundaries with other family members regarding events where you'll both be present/ invited to? Do you tell others in the family that you've discontinued a relationship?

What has worked for you?

Best practices?

We just learned of more layers of generational trauma and are just, done. But want to do it in the way that will hopefully preserve relationships with family members that we do value.

alas wrote: ↑Thu Dec 17, 2020 3:49 pm

Thoughtful wrote: ↑Tue Dec 15, 2020 7:45 pm I know I'm not the only one informally estranged from certain family members.

However, it's anyone formally estranged from specific relatives within a big old ugly Mormon dynasty?

Did you set boundaries with other family members regarding events where you'll both be present/ invited to? Do you tell others in the family that you've discontinued a relationship?

What has worked for you?

Best practices?

We just learned of more layers of generational trauma and are just, done. But want to do it in the way that will hopefully preserve relationships with family members that we do value.

I know your estrangement is more than the apostate shunning that goes on in so many Mormon families.

I pretty much just muddled through. But then my mother was still with the jerk, but didn’t pretend that the abuse didn’t happen. So, I wanted contact with her, but she shared a house with the abuser. There was only a couple of years that I did not want to be at any family function that he was going to be to, and I was not protecting children, so there are some important differences. Where you family has kind of taken the abuser’s side, it makes it hard to keep any of them in your life. On the other hand, I had some resentments toward innocent family members because they were favored. Not their fault that Mom treated boys way different than girls and being boys they got no sexual abuse, but I still hated them for it.

With my situation, my siblings didn’t know why I was refusing to go to family events, and I didn’t feel it was fair to say, “him or me.” But your situation is different, so I think it is fair to handle it different. I think it is fair of you to tell the relatives why you refuse to be around an abusive person, and then just stay away from the big family events he will be at.

As far as maintaining relationships with those you want to maintain a good relationship with, don’t ask them to choose sides. Just ask that they understand and accept your choice, then try to find ways to spend time with them away from the big family group. Invite them for supper at your place. Or to visit. Go visit them at their home. Do a trip together. Find ways other than family events to be with them. Make your relationship with them independent of family ties.

Good luck with this. It is so much easier for me now that my parents are dead, even though the siblings have their own families.

slavereeno wrote: ↑Wed Dec 16, 2020 12:15 pm Sorry to hear that you are feeling estranged. That sucks.

DW has gone to lengths to hide our disaffection from our family. However, there is still some suspicion, so we still get avoided a little.

græy wrote: ↑Thu Dec 17, 2020 8:03 am I'm sorry you have to deal with all of this on top of everything else, Thoughtful.

wtfluff wrote: ↑Wed Dec 16, 2020 2:42 pm MORmONism basically estranged my family of origin from each other, even when we were all attempting to be good MORmONs. "The Church" was always the most important thing in my family, which is what I believed caused the estr

This is my family too. It is at least a 2-day drive to visit family. My parents refuse to fly to they only make the trip maybe once a year. Often they will drive for two days to get here late at night, stay for two days, then drive for two days to get home to teach a sunbeam lesson. Their own grandchildren are here and only see them roughly 5 days a year total, but those sunbeams can't miss a Sunday.

wtfluff wrote: ↑Thu Dec 17, 2020 11:55 am

græy wrote: ↑Thu Dec 17, 2020 8:03 am I'm sorry you have to deal with all of this on top of everything else, Thoughtful.

wtfluff wrote: ↑Wed Dec 16, 2020 2:42 pm MORmONism basically estranged my family of origin from each other, even when we were all attempting to be good MORmONs. "The Church" was always the most important thing in my family, which is what I believed caused the estr

This is my family too. It is at least a 2-day drive to visit family. My parents refuse to fly to they only make the trip maybe once a year. Often they will drive for two days to get here late at night, stay for two days, then drive for two days to get home to teach a sunbeam lesson. Their own grandchildren are here and only see them roughly 5 days a year total, but those sunbeams can't miss a Sunday.

Oh, dear... My brain is slightly hesitant to jack up Thoughtful's thread with my MORmON baggage, but my fluffy fingers have a mind of their own.

Let me preface this by saying that my parents spent their entire lives in fairly small towns. The vast majority of their lives in small-town Utah. In other words: They're scared of the "Big City."

Well, guess what? The vast majority of their kids ended up in "Big Cities." My parents were never further than a long day's drive away from their kids, but even a 2-3 hour drive was too much. (Unless of course there was a MORmON milestone to "celebrate", but they even missed a few of those. A trip for a "Visit"? Never.)

Moving anywhere closer to any of their kids was never an option. BUT... When LD$-Inc. needed to extract a bit more flesh from my parents, they could live in BIG, downtown Salt Lake City for the "opportunity" to pay to serve The Corporation™ doing "Family History" schtuff for a year or two. The kicker for me: I was living in Sandy UT during my parent's Mission. I literally couldn't get them to drive ~15 miles from SLC to my place in Sandy for Sunday dinner with the kids & grandkids. I guarantee that if they had needed to dive 15 miles to "go to church," or a Polygamy Palace, they would have made that "sacrifice" in an instant. That was when I literally gave up at furthering/feeding my relationship with my parents, or even caring if my kids knew their grandparents on "my side" of the family.

So, in my best whiny-fluffy voice, I pull my Fallacy of Relative Privation card and type: "It coulda' been worse." Be glad that your parents will make a two-day drive once in a while to see their grandkids, my parents couldn't even drive ~15 miles to see their grandkids.

[/End Whiny Thread-Jack-Rant]



Edit: Spelling, of course!

Thoughtful wrote: ↑Thu Dec 17, 2020 10:16 pm

alas wrote: ↑Thu Dec 17, 2020 3:49 pm

Thoughtful wrote: ↑Tue Dec 15, 2020 7:45 pm I know I'm not the only one informally estranged from certain family members.

However, it's anyone formally estranged from specific relatives within a big old ugly Mormon dynasty?

Did you set boundaries with other family members regarding events where you'll both be present/ invited to? Do you tell others in the family that you've discontinued a relationship?

What has worked for you?

Best practices?

We just learned of more layers of generational trauma and are just, done. But want to do it in the way that will hopefully preserve relationships with family members that we do value.

I know your estrangement is more than the apostate shunning that goes on in so many Mormon families.

I pretty much just muddled through. But then my mother was still with the jerk, but didn’t pretend that the abuse didn’t happen. So, I wanted contact with her, but she shared a house with the abuser. There was only a couple of years that I did not want to be at any family function that he was going to be to, and I was not protecting children, so there are some important differences. Where you family has kind of taken the abuser’s side, it makes it hard to keep any of them in your life. On the other hand, I had some resentments toward innocent family members because they were favored. Not their fault that Mom treated boys way different than girls and being boys they got no sexual abuse, but I still hated them for it.

With my situation, my siblings didn’t know why I was refusing to go to family events, and I didn’t feel it was fair to say, “him or me.” But your situation is different, so I think it is fair to handle it different. I think it is fair of you to tell the relatives why you refuse to be around an abusive person, and then just stay away from the big family events he will be at.

As far as maintaining relationships with those you want to maintain a good relationship with, don’t ask them to choose sides. Just ask that they understand and accept your choice, then try to find ways to spend time with them away from the big family group. Invite them for supper at your place. Or to visit. Go visit them at their home. Do a trip together. Find ways other than family events to be with them. Make your relationship with them independent of family ties.

Good luck with this. It is so much easier for me now that my parents are dead, even though the siblings have their own families.

Thanks..."he" is incarcerated, pending trial. Unfortunately there's more now, more perpetrators we've become aware of, more higher level (highest level?) cover ups, and Spouseman holding the line has turned overt aggression on him from people with everything to lose and a long history of getting their way. The grooming over the last 50+ years means the people we like/ tolerate cannot conceptualize the reality. We will have to leave it all behind, I think. I'm not sure I thought it could be worse than it was 2 years ago, but...

Thoughtful wrote: ↑Thu Dec 17, 2020 10:16 pm
Thanks..."he" is incarcerated, pending trial. Unfortunately there's more now, more perpetrators we've become aware of, more higher level (highest level?) cover ups, and Spouseman holding the line has turned overt aggression on him from people with everything to lose and a long history of getting their way. The grooming over the last 50+ years means the people we like/ tolerate cannot conceptualize the reality. We will have to leave it all behind, I think. I'm not sure I thought it could be worse than it was 2 years ago, but...

Angel wrote: ↑Tue Dec 29, 2020 4:55 pm

Thoughtful wrote: ↑Thu Dec 17, 2020 10:16 pm
Thanks..."he" is incarcerated, pending trial. Unfortunately there's more now, more perpetrators we've become aware of, more higher level (highest level?) cover ups, and Spouseman holding the line has turned overt aggression on him from people with everything to lose and a long history of getting their way. The grooming over the last 50+ years means the people we like/ tolerate cannot conceptualize the reality. We will have to leave it all behind, I think. I'm not sure I thought it could be worse than it was 2 years ago, but...

I have 3 incarcerated in my family, and others that could be.... Stake president convo - is it genetic? Not sure, but some abuse victims rationalize it, and then allow the cycle to continue. Abused by dad = ok with son being an abuser. Another abused by dad = ok with husband abusing kids (still married to him rather than break their vows - will not go into details on the kids...)

It sucks.

Thoughtful wrote: ↑Thu Dec 31, 2020 8:27 pm

Angel wrote: ↑Tue Dec 29, 2020 4:55 pm

Thoughtful wrote: ↑Thu Dec 17, 2020 10:16 pm
Thanks..."he" is incarcerated, pending trial. Unfortunately there's more now, more perpetrators we've become aware of, more higher level (highest level?) cover ups, and Spouseman holding the line has turned overt aggression on him from people with everything to lose and a long history of getting their way. The grooming over the last 50+ years means the people we like/ tolerate cannot conceptualize the reality. We will have to leave it all behind, I think. I'm not sure I thought it could be worse than it was 2 years ago, but...

I have 3 incarcerated in my family, and others that could be.... Stake president convo - is it genetic? Not sure, but some abuse victims rationalize it, and then allow the cycle to continue. Abused by dad = ok with son being an abuser. Another abused by dad = ok with husband abusing kids (still married to him rather than break their vows - will not go into details on the kids...)

It sucks.

Indeed. I'm sorry.

Red Ryder wrote: ↑Wed Dec 16, 2020 3:18 pm

slavereeno wrote: ↑Wed Dec 16, 2020 12:15 pm Sorry to hear that you are feeling estranged. That sucks.

DW has gone to lengths to hide our disaffection from our family. However, there is still some suspicion, so we still get avoided a little.

Our disaffection?
..we still get avoided..”

Is the wife out now too? Holy cow! That is awesome.