NOM

As some of you know my wife has gone through a serious and radical faith transition. She no longer holds a calling and attends only occasionally. This has been a really difficult transition for her and she has even had to have some therapy to help her through it because she has had mental health issues as a result of this transition.

A few days a ago she used the word "cult" to describe the church. I was pretty shocked. That's a word I have avoided using but I think it is helping her to set mental and emotional boundaries away from the church and to describe some of the unhealthy/toxic behaviors within our tribe. Sometimes I wake up and I can't believe where she is at now. I would have never guessed that this would happen. The church must be doing a really bad job if they lose her. That's all I can say. I think Jeffrey Holland's talk at BYU sealed the deal.

My shelf has been breaking for the past 6 years, but this year it broke. I had to start seeing a therapist. Your wife is not alone.

hallew wrote: ↑Mon Nov 08, 2021 9:28 am My shelf has been breaking for the past 6 years, but this year it broke. I had to start seeing a therapist. Your wife is not alone.

I think it actually is very typical. I had to get help for myself too 10 years ago when it happened. I started waking up in the middle of the night in a panic. Couldn't sleep. Took a while to get stabilized.

I found out that this is an aspect of religious trauma syndrome in high demand religions for a lot of people.

All the very best in your recovery hallew.

If it looks like a duck, if it walks like a duck, if it quacks like a duck, it’s not…. It’s the true Church!

Red Ryder wrote: ↑Mon Nov 08, 2021 12:30 pm If it looks like a duck, if it walks like a duck, if it quacks like a duck, it’s not…. It’s the true Church!

That's hits the mark doesn't it!?

I think that's what she's seeing now.

I really feel for her. It's such a hard thing to go through.

Do you see yourselves remaining religious or spiritual? When my brother and his wife left, they found a new spiritual home at their local baptist congregation. Primarily because Jesus was important to them, the kids went to a fund day camp, and the ladies had a fun happy hour
They love their new non judgmental friends and congregation so much they even had their kids baptized. It works for them.

Hmm... I expressed my mental/spiritual break with the church and now TBM DW started therapy. Not that it's been easy for me, mind you.

Red Ryder wrote: ↑Mon Nov 08, 2021 3:25 pm Do you see yourselves remaining religious or spiritual? When my brother and his wife left, they found a new spiritual home at their local baptist congregation. Primarily because Jesus was important to them, the kids went to a fund day camp, and the ladies had a fun happy hour
They love their new non judgmental friends and congregation so much they even had their kids baptized. It works for them.

I think that spirituality and religiosity can be completely different things, despite the church constantly conflating them. For now, i'm not interested in any religious affiliation, although I still attend to please my family. But after the initial sting of breaking up with the church i'm finally starting to get ready to experience spirituality again. The beauty of it is that I can explore what i want, when i want, with no organization pressuring me.

Red Ryder wrote: ↑Mon Nov 08, 2021 3:25 pm Do you see yourselves remaining religious or spiritual? When my brother and his wife left, they found a new spiritual home at their local baptist congregation. Primarily because Jesus was important to them, the kids went to a fund day camp, and the ladies had a fun happy hour
They love their new non judgmental friends and congregation so much they even had their kids baptized. It works for them.

It's a very good question. It's very up in the air right now. Here are my thoughts at this point (subject to change):

DW still feels that JC and HF are very important to her right now. Recently she said she would be open to going to another congregation. I said that for me to go it would have to reflect my values more. They would need to be completely LGBTQ+ affirming and have marriage equality and ordination.
I also said that I would not want to attend every week and I would go maybe once every month or two at the most. I'm enjoying my Sundays off.

For me, I recognize that finding meaning and purpose and connection with something is very important for most human beings. I'm pretty flexible for myself because I can find that in lots of places and ways. If I am honest, I'm probably agnostic in terms of knowing for sure. I kind of believe there could be some sort of a spiritual component of a high power of some sort but I don't think anyone really knows for sure one way or another.

I'm pretty much completely turned off with American Conservative Christianity. I don't find that it harmonizes much at all with the actual teachings of the actual Jesus. So that's a no go for me. I'm not likely to try anything Conservative Christian or so-called "non-denominational" because it's Calvinist theology is not in line at all with my values. God is basically a psychopath (I create all these billions of people only to predestine a limited few for salvation and then burn and torture the rest of humanity for eternity because I'm offended). That's a no-go for me. If that's your thing and somehow it makes you in some way a better human being somehow then be my guest but that's not who I am.

At this point I would be open to Community of Christ maybe, maybe United Church of Christ, and UU would be a higher possibility where my wife and I could possibly find common ground.

Mormonism is till my heritage and spiritual language in a way. I'm sort of into Transhumanism and some aspects of old school Mormon progression theology intrigues me but there really is no church that embraces that anymore or if it does then it has other serious problems I would guess.

Tangent wrote: ↑Mon Nov 08, 2021 4:51 pm Hmm... I expressed my mental/spiritual break with the church and now TBM DW started therapy. Not that it's been easy for me, mind you.

It's a sign of high demand religions where the stakes are so freakin' high. It shreds most people in one way or another. It works for some couples and families but for many it is devastating on mental and relationship health. I'm sure it is super hard on both of you in different ways. I hope you can both find some solace, peace and healing. I'm sorry. I get it. It's super rough.

stealthbishop wrote: ↑Mon Nov 08, 2021 7:47 am As some of you know my wife has gone through a serious and radical faith transition. She no longer holds a calling and attends only occasionally. This has been a really difficult transition for her and she has even had to have some therapy to help her through it because she has had mental health issues as a result of this transition.

A few days a ago she used the word "cult" to describe the church. I was pretty shocked. That's a word I have avoided using but I think it is helping her to set mental and emotional boundaries away from the church and to describe some of the unhealthy/toxic behaviors within our tribe. Sometimes I wake up and I can't believe where she is at now. I would have never guessed that this would happen. The church must be doing a really bad job if they lose her. That's all I can say. I think Jeffrey Holland's talk at BYU sealed the deal.

It's amazing how people can defy our expectations. You said you thought your wife would never, ever leave the church and yet here you are.
I'm in the same boat in the expectation that my wife will never leave. While in theory it would be nice if she also disaffected, I've accepted and made peace with the idea that she'll never leave (she's told me that specifically). The church is her complete social world and the foundation of her life's meaning. She absolutely loves it. If this is what makes her happy, then I'm happy to support her. (but i'll add that, even though it's hard, i hope for the same from her)

stealthbishop wrote: ↑Mon Nov 08, 2021 4:58 pm

Tangent wrote: ↑Mon Nov 08, 2021 4:51 pm Hmm... I expressed my mental/spiritual break with the church and now TBM DW started therapy. Not that it's been easy for me, mind you.

It's a sign of high demand religions where the stakes are so freakin' high. It shreds most people in one way or another. It works for some couples and families but for many it is devastating on mental and relationship health. I'm sure it is super hard on both of you in different ways. I hope you can both find some solace, peace and healing. I'm sorry. I get it. It's super rough.

Thanks for your kind words. It's difficult, and it's not a linear journey, but on average things are slowly improving.

I have been seeing a non lds therapist and she is shocked at some of the stuff I tell her. One good example is Bednar telling a sister in 2015 that he is scripture!!!

Mackman wrote: ↑Tue Nov 09, 2021 1:26 pm I have been seeing a non lds therapist and she is shocked at some of the stuff I tell her. One good example is Bednar telling a sister in 2015 that he is scripture!!!

I was taught to believe that whatever a GA said was on the same level as scriptures, and there was no "speak as a man." At least I hadn't heard that as a youth/YA. Must be fun for Bednar to think he's all that.

Therapy can be good, as long as it isn't an LDS therapist. I saw two LDS therapists, back in the day. They both leaned on the pray for guidance crap. Well duh. I could do that without paying a therapist to fix life with "read your scriptures and pray." My most recent experience with therapy is to throw medication at whatever ails you. Medication can be good for some, but it seems to be an overused "fix-all." Whoops, I am going off on a tangent.

Tangent wrote: ↑Mon Nov 08, 2021 5:10 pm

stealthbishop wrote: ↑Mon Nov 08, 2021 7:47 am As some of you know my wife has gone through a serious and radical faith transition. She no longer holds a calling and attends only occasionally. This has been a really difficult transition for her and she has even had to have some therapy to help her through it because she has had mental health issues as a result of this transition.

A few days a ago she used the word "cult" to describe the church. I was pretty shocked. That's a word I have avoided using but I think it is helping her to set mental and emotional boundaries away from the church and to describe some of the unhealthy/toxic behaviors within our tribe. Sometimes I wake up and I can't believe where she is at now. I would have never guessed that this would happen. The church must be doing a really bad job if they lose her. That's all I can say. I think Jeffrey Holland's talk at BYU sealed the deal.

It's amazing how people can defy our expectations. You said you thought your wife would never, ever leave the church and yet here you are.
I'm in the same boat in the expectation that my wife will never leave. While in theory it would be nice if she also disaffected, I've accepted and made peace with the idea that she'll never leave (she's told me that specifically). The church is her complete social world and the foundation of her life's meaning. She absolutely loves it. If this is what makes her happy, then I'm happy to support her. (but i'll add that, even though it's hard, i hope for the same from her)

I think that's the best approach. In the early stages of my faith transition 10 years ago, I would bring things up to my wife about church history and what was wrong with the church but it just made things worse. There is a natural need for support and validation and for a desire for a spouse or family/friends to be in the same tribe or on "the same page". But my efforts only led to retrenchment. Once I figured this out (thanks be to the NOM board) I backed off and changed course. I tried to figure out a way to be supportive of my wife and to actually celebrate her spirituality in the church. I found a new niche for myself to make it work as best as I could. And I was successful. I played the "LONG GAME". I basically accepted that my wife would be orthodox and I wanted to stay with her. Eventually our children's negative experiences in the church and the church's double-down on high demandedness (cult like behaviors) opened her eyes. Bottom line: They have to figure it out for themselves (if ever) and the disaffected spouse has to figure out what hey want and what they can do with that reality. It's tough. I never thought this would happen to DW. But she is in enormous pain right now. It still hasn't been easy.