NOM

Have you wondered about an inverse relationship between Christianity and the degree of being a TBM? For instance, the more TBM you are, the less Christian you become?

Not sure if this relationship exists or not. Suppose it might hinge on all that goes with being the most TBM of TBMs. Would it entail being an ultra right-wing conservative with a compound full of dried beans, ammo, Amway products, the complete works of Ezra Taft Benson/Cleon Skousen, and being able to trace a direct relationship back to Brigham Young through one of his many wives? Or would it simply be the preference of harsh obedience to authority rather than having a loving God?

What are your thoughts on this relationship?

It all depends on your definition of Christianity. Remember that the Westboro Baptists consider themselves not only Christian, but super-Christians. In the eyes of the TBM, they are being MORE Christian than those who are less TBM than they are.

What I have noticed is that the more TBM a person becomes, the _less_ the talk of Christ and the more they talk of the brethren. The more TBM they are, the less they talk about atonement and the more they talk about righteousness.

When I was mentally out but still fully active in the church, there were only two people who knew of my disaffection: the bishop and my then-wife. I bore my testimony about a month before I went inactive. I got up and bore testimony that I believed in Jesus Christ and that I am happy that he is my savior. I didn't testify to the truthfulness of the church or that I loved Joseph Smith. I didn't talk about the book of Mormon or the scriptures, I just focused on Jesus Christ. After all (as I explained later to my wife), it was the last thing that I had in common with Mormonism and it was the center focus of Mormonism. When I left the church, someone told me that they knew I was heading towards apostasy when I bore my testimony the last time. That still baffles me, if you can get up and give testimony ONLY on what is considered the keystone of the religion and it is a sure sign of apostasy, there is something a bit wrong there.

It was that day that I realized that Jesus Christ is not the cornerstone, or keystone (or whatever they pick that day, I've heard both), it is Joseph Smith and the institution. Jesus Christ is secondary to that.

But here is the thing, in Mormon theology, my friend was correct. In Mormon theology, Christ dies for the sins of mankind so that all (save the sons of Perdition) are saved into the Telestial Kingdom. It is the work that elevates you above: good works gets you to the Terrestrial Kingdom, baptism gets you to the Celestial-Lower Kingdom, and Endowment/Sealing gets you the Celestial-Highest Kingdom.

Jesus is the first mediator between mankind and Elohim, he forgives sins and grants immortality. The church is the second mediator between mankind and Elohim, they facilitate the covenants. Therefore, to believe only in Jesus Christ is just half of the religion, to believe in the prophets and the priesthood is the second half.

So, to really embrace Mormonism, one must de-emphasize Christ to only half of the equation. Does that make them less Christian? That goes back to the original question, it all depends on your definition of Christianity. I would say it morphs them into something other-than-Christian, but they would say it makes them more Christian than the rest of Christianity.

If someone's name is Christian, are they more Christian than other Christians who are named... Jim, or Rita for example?

wtfluff wrote:If someone's name is Christian, are they more Christian than other Christians who are named... Jim, or Rita for example?

True Christians spell their name Xian.

No true Scotsman puts sugar on his oatmeal.

document wrote:

wtfluff wrote:If someone's name is Christian, are they more Christian than other Christians who are named... Jim, or Rita for example?

True Christians spell their name Xian.

Yes, using Greek characters might give you more authenticity. Maybe I'll start using the Greek name for God as I learned in "Indiana Jones and the Last Crusade".

The problem in Mormonism is that the most thoroughly LDS activities are the least Christian. The temple is associated with deeper spirituality only within devout LDS circles. It certainly has no bearing on how "Christian" you are. Helping the poor and the needy sounds very Christian, but this is the nominal job of the Compassionate Service Leader in the Relief Society, not the bishop. The vast majority of callings in the LDS church concentrate on the three-fold mission of the the church: Preach the Gospel, Redeem the Dead, and Perfect the Saints. Christian service towards the poor was supposed to be added as a fourth mission of the church, but I really have not seen a change in message from senior leadership except in a few narrow instances.

document wrote:It all depends on your definition of Christianity...So, to really embrace Mormonism, one must de-emphasize Christ to only half of the equation.

I've become convinced that there is no working definition of "Christianity". When I was TBM I was convinced that most who professed Christian beliefs also de-emphasized Christ to only half the equation. And honestly...I still hold that belief to a large degree, at least based on my reading of the bible.

But based on my reading of the bible it seems this has been a source of contention for a LONG time if the conflicting writings of James and Paul indicate anything...

document wrote:

wtfluff wrote:If someone's name is Christian, are they more Christian than other Christians who are named... Jim, or Rita for example?

True Christians spell their name Xian.

Somebody needs to tell all the "Christians" that they really should be "Xians", and that they need to stop bitching about anyone who uses the term "Xmas" .

I did want to add, as response to the OP, that I do think there is most likely a positive correlation between someone's TBM levels and the odds that they will be a dick. But is it fair to call that un-Christian or less Christian?

I imagine that there were a number of small business men at the temple that day, just trying their best to provide a service to the worshipers while also making a buck to feed their kids at home. I imagine once all the fuss was over and they were cleaning up their broken pigeon cages they definitely thought "sheesh...what a dick..."

Just look at that shirtless dude. He's definitely saying "Ahhh dammit Jesus...my pigeon!!"