NOM

One point that John Dehlin makes in a recent podcast concerns the Church's moral and legal hypocrisy. The Church may vaguely admit to making mistakes (Pres. Uchtdorff, Oct 2013), but they won't confess specifically to what those mistakes were (there are exceptions, when they were under duress), and they WON"T APOLOGIZE. (Pres. Oaks)
By contrast, to assure that members properly repent in priesthood interviews, they insist members confess specific mistakes, often in detail, and apologize for them.
I should have been able to say in bishop's interviews: "I made mistakes and I'm sorry, now let's move on.
I think 'hypocrites. is an appropriate term for those who do this.

Just as the "church" leadership at the time of Christ had a huge blindspot regarding their own sinfulness, current leadership (pharisees) would rather excommunicate (crucify) members who call out their failings than admit any wrongdoings. They don't like people who mess with their "good thing" they've got going.
But I think their fun time is drawing to a close. The awakening of members is edging towards critical mass. I think it could happen sooner than we think.

You will know the church has repented when you get a large check in the mail. Either a full tithing refund or your share of the Ensign Peak earnings.

Palerider and Hagoth make great points.
The Church I grew up in liked a literal interpretation of Numbers 23:19: "“God is not a man, that He should lie, Nor a son of man, that He should repent."
But then came the challenge of dealing with the "New Church History." How can the Church address its own mistakes, let alone others.
I think people like Dallin Oaks feel in their hearts, and they act like the church IS god.
Their Church/God is not a man that he should lie (except lying for the Lord/Church, you know- carefully worded denials) or repent. (do temporary commandments count?)
See: "wheat and tares." Oct.13, 2024.Here is a quote.
"Last week during Pres Oaks’ talk in General Conference he invented a new category of commandments that has never been heard of before. It is called “temporary commandments”.
Hypocrisy can be blinded by its own certainty.
And yes, I might be wrong. That is to say I'm not certain.

I don't expect church to repent. That is to expect a particular consistent framework that has never been in evidence.

Rather it relies on divine command theory. It's never wrong in the moment. It can look to be in the wrong but that is from human perspective only.

And DCT is not a path I desire to participate in.

Correct answer: when Outer Darkness freezes over.

dogbite wrote: ↑Thu Nov 28, 2024 8:57 pmAnd DCT is not a path I desire to participate in.

What do you mean by "DCT"?

Just This Guy wrote: ↑Mon Dec 16, 2024 9:04 am

dogbite wrote: ↑Thu Nov 28, 2024 8:57 pmAnd DCT is not a path I desire to participate in.

What do you mean by "DCT"?

Probably Divine Command Theory? Where anything God says is right, regardless of other moral frameworks. I.e. Nephi killing Laban to steal his stuff is good because Got told him to, even though murder and theft are typically frowned upon.

We will know when Oaks says the church apologizes for all its terrible deeds.

2bizE wrote: ↑Sat Dec 21, 2024 7:07 pm We will know when Oaks says the church apologizes for all its terrible deeds.

So isn't that the same as Hagoth's answer of "when Outer Darkness freezes over"?

moksha wrote: ↑Mon Dec 23, 2024 8:22 pm

2bizE wrote: ↑Sat Dec 21, 2024 7:07 pm We will know when Oaks says the church apologizes for all its terrible deeds.

So isn't that the same as Hagoth's answer of "when Outer Darkness freezes over"?

Yes it is. Except, hell has a better chance of freezing