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War in Heaven: The 3rd Party

Posted: Mon Aug 25, 2025 9:09 am
by Hagoth
Lucifer:
Proposal: We all love each other and our Father. We all want to spend eternity together as a family. For whatever reason, we need physical bodies. I propose we go to earth, get our bodies and follow the rules without the choice to do wrong. It won't be difficult because there will be no devil or evil spirits to lead us astray. One caveat: I want to be named in the credits.

Result: Lucifer loses the election. He and 1/3 of everybody immediately reorient from their desire to all live together with Heavenly Father and they become evil beyond all description. They go to earth and obsessively focus all of their efforts on enticing people to commit crimes, fight wars, rape, pillage, molest children, etc. etc. As a result the world is a miserable hellhole for most of God's children, and almost no one knows about Jesus and his Oneandonlytruechurch.

Jesus:
Proposal: Nobody will forced to do anything, but they will be coerced by means of a very specific list of exactly what they should and shouldn't do to get back to heaven. This list will change randomly and substantially and pretty much no one will agree on what it contains. But that's ok. I will let the Father kill me for 3 days an then I'll come back as a god. That will erase all of your sins, except that you will still be required to follow that fuzzy list perfectly or all of your sins come back. ALL of the glory to go to the father, but with a few exceptions: You will name your church after me. You will perform all of your ordinances and blessings in my name. You will end every talk and prayer in my name. You will ritualistically eat my flesh and blood weekly, so you can remember to give the honor and glory to me. You will think of yourselves as Christians, but never as Elohimites.

Result: They vote for Jesus, which caused the creation of the devil and evil spirits that pretty much made it impossible to follow, or even know about, the essential list of rules. Families are torn apart. Most people who ever lived never even knew about Jesus. Most people did not adhere to the list of rules. Very few can ever return to the presence of God as Lucifer had originally desired.

Raymond:
Proposal: How about if we all go to earth to get bodies and just do the best we can? We will be tempted to do things wrong and we will screw up from time to time. But here's the thing: whenever we think or do something good, God will send us a really good feeling that will make us want to do and think good things. I mean, really good, like oh, God is real and he's rewarding me right now. Eventually will will just want to do good things and we'll have less desire to do bad things, because you don't get the reward. Some people may be more inclined to lean one way or the other, so when we all come back to God's presence there will be as much counseling as necessary to help bring everybody back into the best state of mind.

Result: Everybody wants to vote for Raymond's plan, but Jesus and Lucifer get really pissed and have it taken off the table. Some people refused to cast a vote. As a result, Raymond and 1/1024 of the host of heaven were cast down to earth where they now inspire people to make YouTube videos about critical thinking.

Re: War in Heaven: The 3rd Party

Posted: Mon Aug 25, 2025 2:35 pm
by wtfluff
The "War in Heaven" is fun to discuss with MORmON believers. The contradictions it invokes are "fun," as Hagoth has shown.


Does anyone out there in NOM-land know anything about what other religious sects believe about the pre-earth-life "War?"

Re: War in Heaven: The 3rd Party

Posted: Tue Aug 26, 2025 8:39 am
by Just This Guy
Lucifer
Every one is to use free agency and treat each other as they want to be treated. By having empathize for their fellow man, people learn how to better each other together.

Religion isn't a big thing and won't be pushed. Instead he encourages people to think for themselves and create their own morality.

Jesus
He is going to tell everyone exactly how to live. He will have detailed rules on what you can and cannot eat, what you can wear, and how you will spend your time, what you can and cannot say. Etc. There is no thought, just blind obedience. His followers can lie, cheat, steal, murder, or anything else they have to do to force that view onto everyone.

To help force people to do what he wants them to do, he creates organized religion to share his teachings. Since he writes the texts, he skews the narrative to make Lucifer sound more controlling than he really was. In reality, the rolls were reversed.




From a literary view, since Jesus was the one writing the scriptures, how do we know that he is a reliable narrator?

Re: War in Heaven: The 3rd Party

Posted: Tue Aug 26, 2025 9:54 am
by alas
wtfluff wrote: Mon Aug 25, 2025 2:35 pm The "War in Heaven" is fun to discuss with MORmON believers. The contradictions it invokes are "fun," as Hagoth has shown.


Does anyone out there in NOM-land know anything about what other religious sects believe about the pre-earth-life "War?"
Other Christian religions pretty much believe there was no “pre-existence” for humans. Only God existed before he created the earth and put humans on it and each human comes into existence at conception or quickening, or when they first draw breath. Jews don’t believe in pre-existence and believe we are created unpin quickening and are vague about any afterlife. Those religions who believe in reincarnation don’t believe in any war in the pre-earth and human life that I have ever heard of and I have studied other religions and taken a class on world religions. So, a war in the pre-existence is pretty much just a Mormon belief. Joseph invented the concept from a few odd statements in the Bible.

Re: War in Heaven: The 3rd Party

Posted: Mon Sep 01, 2025 7:35 pm
by moksha
alas wrote: Tue Aug 26, 2025 9:54 am Does anyone out there in NOM-land know anything about what other religious sects believe about the pre-earth-life "War?"
Can you imagine all the stuff we might have if someone had not added a warning not to add to or supplement the Bible?