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There is a lot of pain here
Posted: Thu Feb 02, 2017 5:19 pm
by azflyer
I first signed up for NOM in August 2015 on the old board. Shortly thereafter, I went NOM-inactive and stopped showing up as much. With the new board now, I seem to recognize that there has been somewhat of a shift in the tone of what I read.
I'm sensing that there are a lot of people here in pain. I'm talking about the deep, emotional, what the "F" is going on with my life kind of pain. I just wanted to let everyone know that I recognize that. I also want you all to know there are lots of people on the inside, as well as on the outside that recognize that. Know that you are loved.
Wherever your faith journey might take you, please know that I for one will respect your honest and sincere decisions.
Re: There is a lot of pain here
Posted: Thu Feb 02, 2017 5:35 pm
by Hagoth
Thanks, flyer!
I think there's a lot of joy here too. Not the phoney fake-it-till-ya-make-it kind, but the standing on the mountain and seeing the lay of the land for the first time kind.
Re: There is a lot of pain here
Posted: Thu Feb 02, 2017 5:56 pm
by azflyer
Hagoth wrote: ↑Thu Feb 02, 2017 5:35 pm
Thanks, flyer!
I think there's a lot of joy here too. Not the phoney fake-it-till-ya-make-it kind, but the standing on the mountain and seeing the lay of the land for the first time kind.
I'm glad to hear you say that!
Re: There is a lot of pain here
Posted: Thu Feb 02, 2017 6:33 pm
by MalcolmVillager
AZF, I agree that you can never have too much happiness and optimism. I suppose that for me personally (I won't speak for the rest) this is one of the very few places I can truly speak my mind and complain about the kind of stuff that would put me in the dog house with my real life.
I see this a a place to vent to likeminded people who are not drinking the kool-aid and overlooking the most blatant of messiness in the COJCOLDS.
I find the humor and candor here refreshing. I participate in other forums (facebook) where I am more guarded in my comments because I have friends and neighbors in the group. NOM is a place I can just be real. Not like I can be an a-hole without consequence but I don't have to worry that some prude is going to get bent out of shape because I don't but it all.
On that note, I have to admit that one thing I appreciate and respect about the COJCOLDS is how it lifts all the boats in the harbor. No war was won on logic and superior tactics alone. You have to get people to buy onto the vision and fight with a higher purpose. That is why I stay engaged for now, and maybe forever despite the fact that I don't find compelling evidence that any of this religion stuff is anything but hype and false hope. Yet I hope that is a god and an afterlife. Nothing would make me happier.
Re: There is a lot of pain here
Posted: Fri Feb 03, 2017 10:16 am
by Mormorrisey
Having only found this place about two/three years ago, I obviously can't speak to what the old guard has seen, but even in that brief sojourn I too have noticed a shift in tone. And I also must add, I'm one of the contributors to this.
For my two cents, I'm not entirely sure if this comes from me specifically from a place of pain, or merely bitterness and cynicism. My favourite cartoon character is Daffy Duck, and one of my favourite comedians is Doug Stanhope. So I find anger and bitterness EXTREMELY funny, and I'm sure this comes out in my posts. So whatever you want to call it, I do think there's a bit of a darker tone. Which is why I feel at home! But I also 'preciate the love.
Re: There is a lot of pain here
Posted: Fri Feb 03, 2017 10:50 am
by Red Ryder
The tone shift started when the church released the essays. The anti mormon lies were no longer lies once confirmed by the church essays. That created a deeper sense of betrayal and in return created more anger and angst. The soft landing space NOM maintained for so long suddenly became sort of irrelevant in that the essays pushed the conversations into the open on Facebook and the bloggersphere.
I think people today are processing the issues and respective disaffection and faith transitions so much faster than 10 years ago. At some point the inoculation efforts will numb the pain of the issues and the church will sustain itself after the current purge burns out.
The real change will occur when half of the quorum of the twelve passes away. God forbid Bednar makes it to the top.
Re: There is a lot of pain here
Posted: Fri Feb 03, 2017 11:13 am
by Enoch Witty
It's painful to feel like I never lived up to an organization that demanded perfect accountability, only to later find out that same organization lied to me repeatedly and systematically. It's painful to come to a realization about how many of the church's teachings have made me unhappy in life, only to have my eyes opened to the fact that none of it mattered. It's painful that my wife doesn't trust me enough to try things my way, even though I put in years of trying things her way. It's painful that my wife will very likely never understand me. It's painful that my family is still donating large amounts of money to an organization I do not trust, like, or appreciate, and I would be stomping on my wife's ability to "live her religion" if I try to put a stop to it. It's painful that I have virtually no relationship with most of the members of my family of origin or extended family, as they are incapable of understanding, accepting, or appreciating my feelings about the church. It's painful that I focused on superficial "friendships" at church in order to stay on the strait and narrow, thereby damaging or failing to establish good friendships with people I actually have things in common with. By extension, it's painful that I completely lack unfiltered relationships in my life. And most of all, it's painful that my son is going to be indoctrinated into a religion that I feel damaged me in profound and deep ways, and there's not a GD thing I can do to stop it.
So yeah, pretty much everything Mormonism is associated with pain for me. I want nothing more in the world than to leave it all behind, but there's the whole "I love my wife" issue to contend with, which means an ongoing relationship with the church despite the fact that it brings nothing positive into my life.
You have read me accurately, sir. There is pain here. Thanks for the love, nonetheless.
Re: There is a lot of pain here
Posted: Fri Feb 03, 2017 1:15 pm
by Corsair
Re: There is a lot of pain here
Posted: Fri Feb 03, 2017 1:15 pm
by Linked
I joined NOM 1.0 in November 2015, so my history is short. But I do see a bit of a shift like you are talking about azflyer. When NOM went black I floundered for a few weeks then found the exmo gathering on reddit. Those guys are really pissed off. But it was the only place that met my need for community. I may have picked up some vitriol while there. I do actively fight in my mind against being indoctrinated from reddit, but it's hard not to pick up some of the angst. In some ways this now feels like an extension of the exmo subreddit, with less blatant attacks on the church and a slower paced, everyone knows everyone community. Honestly that is where I am right now, so I am okay with it. Though I really appreciate being challenged when I am being unfair or ignoring part of the situation, which I always appreciated about azflyer on both NOMs.
Also, as I move along my disaffection journey and mentally get further from the church I find the compromises I previously believed in hold less water for me. Everything Enoch Witty said rings true for me too. I want the opportunity to test out my new freedom and find what kind of life I would like to live without causing daily tears and divorce.
Enoch Witty wrote: ↑Fri Feb 03, 2017 11:13 am
It's painful to feel like I never lived up to an organization that demanded perfect accountability, only to later find out that same organization lied to me repeatedly and systematically. It's painful to come to a realization about how many of the church's teachings have made me unhappy in life, only to have my eyes opened to the fact that
none of it mattered. It's painful that my wife doesn't trust me enough to try things my way, even though I put in years of trying things her way. It's painful that my wife will very likely never
understand me. It's painful that my family is still donating large amounts of money to an organization I do not trust, like, or appreciate, and I would be stomping on my wife's ability to "live her religion" if I try to put a stop to it. It's painful that I have virtually no relationship with most of the members of my family of origin or extended family, as they are incapable of understanding, accepting, or appreciating my feelings about the church. It's painful that I focused on superficial "friendships" at church in order to stay on the strait and narrow, thereby damaging or failing to establish good friendships with people I actually have things in common with. By extension, it's painful that I completely lack unfiltered relationships in my life. And most of all, it's painful that my son is going to be indoctrinated into a religion that I feel damaged me in profound and deep ways, and there's not a GD thing I can do to stop it.
So yeah, pretty much everything Mormonism is associated with pain for me. I want nothing more in the world than to leave it all behind, but there's the whole "I love my wife" issue to contend with, which means an ongoing relationship with the church despite the fact that it brings nothing positive into my life.
You have read me accurately, sir. There is pain here. Thanks for the love, nonetheless.
Re: There is a lot of pain here
Posted: Fri Feb 03, 2017 4:28 pm
by well wandered
azflyer wrote: ↑Thu Feb 02, 2017 5:19 pm
I first signed up for NOM in August 2015 on the old board. Shortly thereafter, I went NOM-inactive and stopped showing up as much. With the new board now, I seem to recognize that there has been somewhat of a shift in the tone of what I read.
I'm sensing that there are a lot of people here in pain. I'm talking about the deep, emotional, what the "F" is going on with my life kind of pain. I just wanted to let everyone know that I recognize that. I also want you all to know there are lots of people on the inside, as well as on the outside that recognize that. Know that you are loved.
Wherever your faith journey might take you, please know that I for one will respect your honest and sincere decisions.
Thanks for this.. It was the most devastating thing that happened, being treated like I committed an unforgiveable sin by learning certain facts. The relationship with your family, siblings, parents, what that becomes is indescribably weird.
Members shouldn't be punished for discovering what the Church of Jesus Christ is hiding. That's just so wrong.
I still believe there's something special about the church, probably just personal experiences, and will go back probably later.
Re: There is a lot of pain here
Posted: Fri Feb 03, 2017 6:16 pm
by MoPag
Thanks azflyer.
There is a lot of pain here. But we are getting it out there and talking abut it. We are connecting with people who have felt the same or similar pain. We are no longer bottling it up inside and pretending like it isn't there. So while pain isn't ideal, thanks to NOM we finally have a safe place to purge ourselves of pain.
Re: There is a lot of pain here
Posted: Fri Feb 03, 2017 6:56 pm
by Snowdrop
Knowing that other people feel the same pain eases my own. My goal is to be (almost) as happy as the person people who know me think I am. I appreciate that this board allows me to process the emotions that come with entering a different phase of life. But allowing a space to focus on the beauty of life on the blue planet couldn't go wrong!
Re: There is a lot of pain here
Posted: Fri Feb 03, 2017 11:56 pm
by 20/20hind
Yes this is a nom board. But its also a place for us who absolutely 100 % have left the church, however, those who mean the most to us, our best friends, spouses, siblings, children, have decided to stay in the church, and we both need the support and encouraging words that help us.
Re: There is a lot of pain here
Posted: Mon Feb 06, 2017 1:59 pm
by wtfluff
Ah, the pain...
Personally, I think I just try not to think about it. To Ignore it. Probably not so healthy, eh? It's always there, lurking. With my family dynamics, I'm not so sure that it will ever go away.
Though I guess it does bleed through as anger and sarcasm here and elsewhere on the interwebs...
Re: There is a lot of pain here
Posted: Thu Feb 09, 2017 10:57 am
by Newme
azflyer wrote: ↑Thu Feb 02, 2017 5:19 pm
I first signed up for NOM in August 2015 on the old board. Shortly thereafter, I went NOM-inactive and stopped showing up as much. With the new board now, I seem to recognize that there has been somewhat of a shift in the tone of what I read.
I'm sensing that there are a lot of people here in pain. I'm talking about the deep, emotional, what the "F" is going on with my life kind of pain. I just wanted to let everyone know that I recognize that. I also want you all to know there are lots of people on the inside, as well as on the outside that recognize that. Know that you are loved.
Wherever your faith journey might take you, please know that I for one will respect your honest and sincere decisions.
Very sweet and appreciated.
Maybe I've contributed to this perspective. I am going through a lot right now. I've lost most of my extended family and a lot of friends because I just couldn't keep my mouth shut about the evil I see in the church that's hurting them financially and psychologically. But I couldn't keep my mouth shut in church either. Damned if I do damned if I don't. My marriage is hanging on by a thread. It's hard. I feel like there's no group I can belong to, not that I ever really fit in, but now it's just so obvious. I don't fall for the liberal lies, nor the Mormon lies. Sorry for the pitty party - but it is good to just get it off my chest and as mentioned - I appreciate this place for that.
Re: There is a lot of pain here
Posted: Thu Feb 09, 2017 11:18 am
by Its_Complicated
Thanks azflyer for acknowledging it . I know I just signed up here, but I also have some problems that need to be worked out. The good people here are a blessing to me. Even those who have walked away from the church, can be a support for those who are trying to stay. I appreciate every single person here! It makes a big difference!
Re: There is a lot of pain here
Posted: Sat Feb 11, 2017 4:48 pm
by Zack Tacorin Dos
AZ Flyer,
Thanks for posting this. I've been kind of AWOL from NOM lately, so I appreciate hearing this and what seems to be a general confirmation from others.
Sad? I've been there and done that. Certainly I'll do it again. But, my situation is better than that of many others, so I feel like I only have an inkling of the pain some of you express. I'm sorry for that pain, but I'm glad for all of you who seem to buffer that pain a little for us all.
Thanks,
Zack