Stuck

[Newme]

That's rough. But I've been there and things have gotten better - but it wasn't over night nor easy.

I imagine that maybe she's worried that your disaffection toward the church means a disaffection toward her and your marriage.
The church kind of has drilled this distorted idea as a manipulative threat to stay active no matter what. I'm really beginning to see that the church leaders insist that members worship the church (& them) over God/higher GOoD. They see inactivity as the worst thing - and vocally questioning evil of the church worse.

I don't know if this will help you, but I tried to help my DH understand where I was coming from by explaining (paraphrasing of course )...

"Imagine you were in the Islamic faith - you were raised in it. But then you came to question - studied pondered & prayed to realize that it had some serious evils and you couldn't go along with them. As Joseph Smith did with other religion of the time, you were put down for seeing things differently, but in your heart, and conscience, you could not unsee what you saw, nor deny what you discovered. This is somewhat how I feel in this situation. I go to church every week with you - and I keep my mouth shut about things I believe, and try to be respectful of their beliefs, but you need to cut me some slack. I don't feel right about wearing garments nor do I feel right about using the temple to make money. The way the church handles funds (secretly & robbing the poor of tithes) is wrong to me - I can't go along with those things. Going along with what I KNOW to be wrong, is killing me spiritually. I want to be and am trying to be supportive of you - by sitting next to you in church. I love FHE and am glad we still do that. I love to pray as a family - I love good things about the church. But there are some things I cannot accept in good conscience. I hope you respect that and support me as I support you through our differences."

[Charlotte]

Charlotte wrote: ↑ Things got better for me when I could make statements and express opinions sort of "in passing." They're less the makings of an argument and more just a reflection of who I am now.

I’d be interested in a little more detail here. When I say things in passing that are negative about the church, it never goes over well. How did you get to a place with your spouse that they could be more accepting?

A lot of it is tone of voice and other pretty darn subtle verbal and non-verbal conversational cues. I took one of my biggest realizations/pet peeves about the church to turn the mirror back on myself. The church seems to want to talk me into belief. Talk, talk, talk, testify, strong-arm, intimidate with doctrine. Instead of showing me truth, happiness, radiance. So I try to be what I wish the church was.

My husband is a big reader (except, unfortunately, of church history, won't touch RSR, etc.), and I try to show that I'm seeing the church in the context of world history and current events - all in a way least likely to be perceived as an attack on the church. Random examples that come to mind: How yesterday's heresies are tomorrow's accepted truth in many religions, including Mormonism. (Excommunication of members for stuff that's in the essays now.) How the church isn't immune from the problems of the day. (Things like the priesthood ban or the TitleIX/Honor Code issues at BYU.)

On more sensitive ground, instead of yammering on about how JS conducted his marriage, I remember a turning point when I made a couple of factual statements - things I knew my good guy of a husband would find objectionable- and then simply said, "I don't respect that."

Somewhat related to all this is finding for myself and showing to him that there are things I still reverence,and sacrifices I'm willing to make for my community and marriage. And it's funny how some things don't change. I've done a 180, but I'm still the one who thinks it's just good manners to be on time for sacrament meeting.

[Red Ryder]

...snip...

A lot of it is tone of voice and other pretty darn subtle verbal and non-verbal conversational cues. I took one of my biggest realizations/pet peeves about the church to turn the mirror back on myself. The church seems to want to talk me into belief. Talk, talk, talk, testify, strong-arm, intimidate with doctrine. Instead of showing me truth, happiness, radiance. So I try to be what I wish the church was.

My husband is a big reader (except, unfortunately, of church history, won't touch RSR, etc.), and I try to show that I'm seeing the church in the context of world history and current events - all in a way least likely to be perceived as an attack on the church. Random examples that come to mind: How yesterday's heresies are tomorrow's accepted truth in many religions, including Mormonism. (Excommunication of members for stuff that's in the essays now.) How the church isn't immune from the problems of the day. (Things like the priesthood ban or the TitleIX/Honor Code issues at BYU.)

On more sensitive ground, instead of yammering on about how JS conducted his marriage, I remember a turning point when I made a couple of factual statements - things I knew my good guy of a husband would find objectionable- and then simply said, "I don't respect that."

Somewhat related to all this is finding for myself and showing to him that there are things I still reverence,and sacrifices I'm willing to make for my community and marriage. And it's funny how some things don't change. I've done a 180, but I'm still the one who thinks it's just good manners to be on time for sacrament meeting.

This is excellent advice Charlotte! It's important to communicate to our spouses that there are still wonderful parts of the church that we hold respect for. Sometimes that gets lost in the anger and frustration of a faith transition.

Great post, thanks for sharing this.

[Hagoth]

Unfortunately, a Mormon marriage is between three entities: husband, wife, church. When one member changes their beliefs the whole arrangement must shift. Some people think that a faith crisis of one member will inevitably lead to divorce. Ideally it will merely lead to a separation, but with the church as the party that gets pushed aside. This is something that really can happen but it comes in very small increments. I have seen it in my own marriage. The church is still ever-present but the menage-a-trois has faded. The church isn't out of our lives but as far as our relationship is concerned it has had to move into the spare bedroom in the basement.

Garments are a much bigger struggle for some than others. I still wear garments, not always, but I usually sleep in them. After a period of really struggling with putting them on each day I suddenly reached a point where they just didn't matter to me any more, one way or the other. They just became underwear. Ugly underwear, sure. The only person who ever sees me in my underwear is my wife, so if she likes me wearing them it's just not big deal anymore. I would never go out and buy garments but I still have a drawer full of them.

Good luck, and hang in there!

[w2mz]

I've been thinking a lot about the OP and this thread. I have nothing but sympathy for you and situation. I know the feeling, and the pain.

Good luck TestimoyLost. Some of us here are on very similar journeys.

[TestimonyLost]

Thanks again everyone for the kind and supportive words. Things have calmed down between us but the communication channels have closed up tight on the faith issue. I don't know when they'll reopen. As I sat in church on Sunday listening to someone tearfully testify of the prophet in the specific context of the infamous November policy, well, it made me wonder once again how long I can go before I just explode. For now though I've got all those feelings mostly back in the bottle.

[w2mz]

Word.

If you are local to SLC or Davis counties and ever want to grab lunch and chat, shoot me a PM. Some cool NOMs around here that would be good sounding boards.

NOM hikes are cathartic too in case you ever want to join with some of us.

[JustHangingOn@57]

There will come a day, as I painfully realized after 30 years of marriage, that you will have to have a gut wrenching talk with your spouse about your disaffection with the church. It happened to me. I couldn't live the lie any more. I showed her a couple of the essays. We discussed each topic. We also briefly discussed parts of the CES letter. To my great relief she empathized with me. She still holds out hope that I can compartmentalize the negative and focus on the positives of the church. To keep our marriage viable I pretend that I am trying. I sincerely hope that when that time comes your spouse will accept and love you for who you are, and not let that damn church break up another marriage. Good luck!